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Boards Referendum - English as the first language of Republic of Ireland

135

Comments

  • #102
    sock puppet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    sdonn_1 wrote: »
    I'm not shocked at the result but am VERY appalled that even 80 odd people want the teanga gone. The Irish language is integral to all of us, it's part of our culture and heritage, part in my opinion of every Irish person whether the know it or not. To speak out against Irish is tantamount to treason in my book - thnk of 1916, 800 years of oppression and how hard we fought to gain our independence, something that defines us from joe brit.

    In most cases where people have a poor command of Irish, it's because it's treated like shít in schools and taught so badly it makes the government of today look GOOD.

    I'm by no means flunt in Irish, I was lazy, dropped to pass Irish and failed to be taught much more than how to count to ten. However I would still be fervently of the opinion that anyone wh considers themselves Irish and voted YES above should be stripped of their citizenship and deported.

    This post is in jest right?


  • #103
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Domo230 wrote: »
    I speak english, my decendants have spoken it for hundreds of years, its the second most spoken language on the planet and allows me to interact and trade with some of the most important nations on the planet.

    Ideally the world would all speak one language and fortunately this seems to be becoming the case. Be it Chinese,RnglishmSpanish etc I dont really care.

    But Id rather be speaking English than Irish. English FTW.
    Chicken sandwich?


  • #104
    TEH REAL CDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭TEH REAL CDP


    Its not about what advantages one language has over the other.

    Its about heritage, respect and something that was fought for long before your time. If two people speak it, the language is not dead. People who bitch and moan about Ireland, the culture and the language should really just **** off. You have to leave somewhere to truly appreciate it. I speak Irish (what little I have but I make the effort - even more so that I'm gone now) and would like my children (in the future) to speak it as well. Just because it is badly taught does not merit its extinction by public vote. That's ridiculous. It just needs a severe reform in the way it is taught in schools. Moreover, the attitude of the teachers that teach it is crucial. It makes me proud to be an Irish person, the fact that I have my own language. Maybe the people that bitch and moan and whine about everything that's Irish should take a look at themselves - you don't know how lucky you are. This language runs deeper than you could ever fathom. People fought to keep it alive during a time where it was banned in this country. Its ingrained into us, whether you choose to recognise it or not. Why you want to try to strip the country of this language (again) is beyond me. If you don't speak it, fine. Just leave it be. But for the rest of us who know where we come from - it'll always be ours.


  • #105
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Domo230 wrote: »
    I speak english, my decendants have spoken it for hundreds of years, its the second most spoken language on the planet and allows me to interact and trade with some of the most important nations on the planet.

    Ideally the world would all speak one language and fortunately this seems to be becoming the case.
    Ya diversity sucks, communism and blandness rules!! I hate going to a different country and finding that every things different.


  • #106
    johnl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 207 ✭✭johnl


    galwayrush wrote: »
    I don't don't know what a tracker thingy is in gaelic:rolleyes:

    'morgáiste rianaithe', possibly.


  • #107
    Adamcp898
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    TEH REAL CDP wrote: »
    Its not about what advantages one language has over the other.

    Its about heritage, respect and something that was fought for long before your time. If two people speak it, the language is not dead. People who bitch and moan about Ireland, the culture and the language should really just **** off. You have to leave somewhere to truly appreciate it. I speak Irish (what little I have but I make the effort - even more so that I'm gone now) and would like my children (in the future) to speak it as well. Just because it is badly taught does not merit its extinction by public vote. That's ridiculous. It just needs a severe reform in the way it is taught in schools. Moreover, the attitude of the teachers that teach it is crucial. It makes me proud to be an Irish person, the fact that I have my own language. Maybe the people that bitch and moan and whine about everything that's Irish should take a look at themselves - you don't know how lucky you are. This language runs deeper than you could ever fathom. People fought to keep it alive during a time where it was banned in this country. Its ingrained into us, whether you choose to recognise it or not. Why you want to try to strip the country of this language (again) is beyond me. If you don't speak it, fine. Just leave it be. But for the rest of us who know where we come from - it'll always be ours.

    You'll make your children learn a language then that will jeopardise their full understanding and command of an international language that will prove itself infinitely more times useful than Irish ever will be all for your old nostalgic view of Ireland. You'll keep yourself from moving forward with the times because of your old ''fvck the Brits'' view on life.

    That represents backward thinking and a very small minded attitude tbh.


  • #108
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    You'll make your children learn a language then that will jeopardise their full understanding and command of an international language that will prove itself infinitely more times useful than Irish ever will be all for your old nostalgic view of Ireland. You'll keep yourself from moving forward with the times because of your old ''fvck the Brits'' view on life.

    That represents backward thinking and a very small minded attitude tbh.
    Being proud to be Irish and wanting to learn your native tongue does not equate to hating British people.

    Why is it that some people cannot tell the difference?


  • #109
    Bob the Builder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭Bob the Builder


    CaptainNegative wrote: »
    As long as 2 people speak a language it can't be dead - and there's thousands of people who speak Irish, so it will not die - if anything it's getting stronger.
    Most of them are being paid to speak Irish.


  • #110
    culabula
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭culabula


    snyper wrote: »
    Je ne parle pas 'irish'
    je prefè anglaise et un pue francaise.
    Ca va?

    Non, ca ne va pas du tout and all it reveals is just how badly ALL languages are taught in schools within the 26-county state.


  • #111
    Adamcp898
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    Terry wrote: »
    Being proud to be Irish and wanting to learn your native tongue does not equate to hating British people.

    Why is it that some people cannot tell the difference?

    Wanting to learn a language above another infinitely more useful one just because ''X and Y fought to save it'' at a time when we ruled by another country isn't patriotic it's stupid. The long term benefits of having English is proven in every sector, why do you think the rest of the world is rushing to learn it?


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  • #112
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    Wanting to learn a language above another infinitely more useful one just because ''X and Y fought to save it'' at a time when we ruled by another country isn't patriotic it's stupid. The long term benefits of having English is proven in every sector, why do you think the rest of the world is rushing to learn it?
    So people should only speak English and no other language?


  • #113
    Also Starring LeVar Burton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    Bob the Builder wrote: »
    Most of them are being paid to speak Irish.

    No they're not... You gonna back that up.
    I speak Irish with loads of people daily. None of us are paid to be speaking it - tá bród againn sa teanga agus b'fhearr linn í ná an Béarla lofa. Is teanga i bhfad níos deise agus fileata í agus gan í bheinn caillte.
    Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. ;)


  • #114
    johnl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 207 ✭✭johnl


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    You'll make your children learn a language then that will jeopardise their full understanding and command of an international language that will prove itself infinitely more times useful than Irish ever will be all for your old nostalgic view of Ireland.
    Teaching your children Irish will not in any way harm their learning of English. Indeed, it has been shown over and over that learning a second (or third) language can only improve cognition and indeed performance in the first language or mother-tongue.

    I've taken the liberty of highlighting your own "understanding and command" of the English language in the quote above.


  • #115
    Adamcp898
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    Terry wrote: »
    So people should only speak English and no other language?

    I'm saying people should choose to learn the language that's most beneficial to them, don't let this it's your patriotic duty drivel decide for them, afterall we're not letting it hold us back from heading over the border to spend our money
    CaptainNegative wrote: »
    No they're not... You gonna back that up.
    I speak Irish with loads of people daily. None of us are paid to be speaking it - tá bród againn sa teanga agus b'fhearr linn í ná an Béarla lofa. Is teanga i bhfad níos deise agus fileata í agus gan í bheinn caillte.
    Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. ;)

    But there are certain grants available for those who support the Irish language, naming your business in Irish etc.


  • #116
    johnl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 207 ✭✭johnl


    Terry wrote: »
    Being proud to be Irish and wanting to learn your native tongue does not equate to hating British people.

    Why is it that some people cannot tell the difference?
    Up till the 1880s or so, Unionists in the North used the Irish language. Photos show "Éirinn go bráth" over the show-hall for the annual Unionist meeting in Belfast, stories tell of Orange Lodge marches greeting each other with "Céad míle fáilte".
    It was only later that the language became unacceptable to Unionists, when the well was poisoned. It's important to remember that this only happened relatively recently.
    Another victim of nationalism.


  • #117
    Adamcp898
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    johnl wrote: »
    Teaching your children Irish will not in any way harm their learning of English. Indeed, it has been shown over and over that learning a second (or third) language can only improve cognition and indeed performance in the first language or mother-tongue.

    I've taken the liberty of highlighting your own "understanding and command" of the English language in the quote above.

    There's nothing wrong with my usage of any of the words you have emboldened.

    No it certainly does not always improve one's command of a primary language. In certain related languages it can help yes for example with French, Italien and Spanish.

    But as regards Irish helping your understanding of English, no. The different ways of structuring sentences (placing of verbs etc.) in the two languages is enough to see that.

    Children who go to gaelscoils that speak Irish all day won't have as good a command of the English language as those who speak English all day.


  • #118
    Also Starring LeVar Burton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with my usage of any of the words you have emboldened.

    No it certainly does not always improve one's command of a primary language. In certain related languages it can help yes for example with French, Italien and Spanish.

    But as regards Irish helping your understanding of English, no. The different ways of structuring sentences (placing of verbs etc.) in the two languages is enough to see that.

    Children who go to gaelscoils that speak Irish all day won't have as good a command of the English language as those who speak English all day.

    That's a load of boll**ks. I went to gaelscoileanna throughout my education - I have a degree in both Irish and English. Judging by this thread alone, my grasp of the english tongue is better than your own.
    Therefore, you are wrong. :cool:


  • #119
    TEH REAL CDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭TEH REAL CDP


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    You'll make your children learn a language then that will jeopardise their full understanding and command of an international language that will prove itself infinitely more times useful than Irish ever will be all for your old nostalgic view of Ireland. You'll keep yourself from moving forward with the times because of your old ''fvck the Brits'' view on life.

    That represents backward thinking and a very small minded attitude tbh.

    Its ironic that in the points (if there are any) you endeavor to make in your posts - you completely contradict yourself:

    You obviously haven't a clue about what you're talking about if you think learning more than one language will void the command of another. That's not how learning and the human brain works. Learning various forms of tenses and grammar consolidates verbal and aural reasoning in the brain. Hence, people who have studied/had exposure to many languages at an early stage in development are more proficient in grasping the fundamental basis of language structure (in a multilingual context I might add) and can even comprehend the subtle dialectual differences in many subforms of a foreign language. Studying Irish (via a reformed syllabus approach) will only enhance that ability.

    My old nostalgic view of Ireland? :rolleyes: Yeah - give me a break. If I had that viewpoint on life - I'd be bitter and resentful of everyone around me from staying in Ireland too long. Sound familiar?

    I don't hate anyone or endorse any of what you are saying. To progress as a nation - you do not forget where you came from. That is ignorance and blind ignorance at that. For the record, I work in the UK and the only reason I'm posting is that I'm appalled that people are reacting in such a fashion. Its people like you that are small minded - who refuse to see the bigger picture and where they stand in the world and why, today - they are able to stand there as Irish people.

    I'm completely done with this topic. It's downright offensive and serves no purpose. I'll console myself that this is the internet, its to be expected. I don't even know why I bothered to post. Same AH tripe tbqfh.


  • #120
    Adamcp898
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    CaptainNegative wrote: »
    That's a load of boll**ks. I went to gaelscoileanna throughout my education - I have a degree in both Irish and English. Judging by this thread alone, my grasp of the english tongue is better than your own.
    Therefore, you are wrong. :cool:

    Good to see you learned a lot then.

    It's great when you don't have to say a word to disprove what some says.


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  • #121
    pawrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭pawrick


    mumhaabu wrote: »
    I would say keep the status quo and keep both Languages official. I would put emphasis on stopping the waste where everything is translated into Irish and speaking it is a licence to get into a lazy comfy state public job. It should however be kept as a requirement for all TD's, Gardai and important position within the state, however your average pencil pusher does not need it.

    I really have to agree with most of this - I can't speak Irish and honestly have little interest in learning it now, but like most Irish people I am proud that we have it as our language ( I know I know tis complicated!)

    From experience I have seen the utter waste in translating documents in to Irish where if we are to be honest about it, it wouldn't be read in English either but it's just to keep a few pains in the ass happy who seem to go out of their way to look for things in Irish or wont use the web to print off their own copies.


  • #122
    Also Starring LeVar Burton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    Good to see you learned a lot then.

    It's great when you don't have to say a word to disprove what some says.

    Do you mean someone?
    Your post makes no sense. There's no other comparison to make apart from this thread. I don't understand your problem.


  • #123
    Adamcp898
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    TEH REAL CDP wrote: »
    Its ironic that in the points (if there are any) you endeavor to make in your posts - you completely contradict yourself:

    You obviously haven't a clue about what you're talking about if you think learning more than one language will void the command of another. That's not how learning and the human brain works. Learning various forms of tenses and grammar consolidates verbal and aural reasoning in the brain. Hence, people who have studied/had exposure to many languages at an early stage in development are more proficient in grasping the fundamental basis of language structure (in a multilingual context I might add) and can even comprehend the subtle dialectual differences in many subforms of a foreign language. Studying Irish (via a reformed syllabus approach) will only enhance that ability.

    That wasn't what I was saying at all.

    What I was saying, and this goes for more than just languages, if you concentrate on one and neglect another you will be better at one than the other.
    I wasn't commenting on when a child should start learning their first, second, third languages or about how the Irish syllabus needs to be reformed at least as to how languages are taught.
    TEH REAL CDP wrote: »
    My old nostalgic view of Ireland? :rolleyes: Yeah - give me a break. If I had that viewpoint on life - I'd be bitter and resentful of everyone around me from staying in Ireland too long. Sound familiar?

    Sounds like someone who left and is regretful of thier own decision to the point they wish to grasp on to aspects of what they feel they left behind.
    TEH REAL CDP wrote: »
    I don't hate anyone or endorse any of what you are saying. To progress as a nation - you do not forget where you came from. That is ignorance and blind ignorance at that. For the record, I work in the UK and the only reason I'm posting is that I'm appalled that people are reacting in such a fashion. Its people like you that are small minded - who refuse to see the bigger picture and where they stand in the world and why, today - they are able to stand there as Irish people.

    And small minded people like you who fail to embrace change and see what needs to be done for a country to consistently move forward.

    This is turning into little more than people taking pops at each other but I guess it is AH after all.


  • #124
    Adamcp898
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    CaptainNegative wrote: »
    Do you mean someone?
    Your post makes no sense. There's no other comparison to make apart from this thread. I don't understand your problem.


    Indeed I did :D

    My point was you're using one example (from the internet no less) to try and prove a point (in jest or not) which requires much more evidence


  • #125
    Also Starring LeVar Burton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    Indeed I did :D

    My point was you're using one example (from the internet no less) to try and prove a point (in jest or not) which requires much more evidence

    Well in fairness, saying that people who went to gaelscoileanna wouldn't have as good a grasp on english as other people, is hardly proof of anything. Most of the people I went to school with are/were better at english than the majority of the surrounding English speaking schools and several of us went on to get degrees in English, so your original point has no facts whatsoever and indeed from personal experiences I have (which you don't as you didn't, or at least I imagine you didn't, attend a gaelscoil), I know that your statement was false.


  • #126
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    I hope everyone who voted to keep Irish the national language gets aids


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  • #127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    I hope everyone who voted to keep Irish the national language gets aids

    As in free Irish lessions you mean!

    I'm still learning Irish, still crap at it! :(


  • #128
    Also Starring LeVar Burton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    Domo230 wrote: »
    Yea cause having everyone speak the same language is eally going to cause any of this to happen :rolleyes:

    Either you didn't get his sarcasm or you have no idea what you're talking about - which is it?
    I find it hard to believe that anyone could be so uncultured as to think that having only one language for everyone in the world would be a good thing - it's as if you want to be a robot.


  • #129
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,121 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Irish is all Greek to me. :P


  • #130
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Just leave it as it is, it will make no difference whatsoever......


  • #131
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    What I was saying, and this goes for more than just languages, if you concentrate on one and neglect another you will be better at one than the other.
    I wasn't commenting on when a child should start learning their first, second, third languages or about how the Irish syllabus needs to be reformed at least as to how languages are taught.
    A friend of mine is having a child with a Slovakian girl and she plans to teach the child Irish and Slovakian. She doesn't see it as a big deal as she can speak 3 or 4 languages herself including more Irish than I can. Another Polish girl I know can speak 5 languages. Learning a language, any language can only make you better at picking up and learning languages.

    Irish is an ancient language that is of great interest to allot of people around the world it's also lent heavily to many other languages. The fact it's not popular or spoken much has more to do with the lazy MTV consumer cattle generation of today that would rather suck up whatever 'culture' the tele tells them is cool.


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  • #132
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    ScumLord wrote: »
    The fact it's not popular or spoken much has more to do with the lazy MTV consumer cattle generation of today that would rather suck up whatever 'culture' the tele tells them is cool.

    Or the fact that it's pratically dead, poorly taught and mostly useless. Irish has no pratical application for most people, why waste your time?
    I mean if you're going to bother with dead languages then you should probably learn sanskrit.
    Bitches love sanskrit.


  • #133
    AvrilLavigne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭AvrilLavigne


    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    Or the fact that it's pratically dead, poorly taught and mostly useless. Irish has no pratical application for most people, why waste your time?
    I mean if you're going to bother with dead languages then you should probably learn sanskrit.
    Bitches love sanskrit.

    Thank God (or Eamonn O Cuiv) that we have planning laws that prevent the likes of you living anywhere near us! Tháinig ár lá ach níor thuig sibh é!


  • #134
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    AvrilLavigne wrote: »
    Thank God (or Eamonn O Cuiv) that we have planning laws that prevent the likes of you living anywhere near us! Tháinig ár lá ach níor thuig sibh é!

    This, this shit right here?
    This is why people hate your goddamn language. Because you act like a bunch of elitist fucksticks.


  • #135
    pork99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭pork99


    If nothing else this teaches us a bit of Latin.

    The "de iure" first language of Ireland is Irish.

    However the "de facto" first language is English.

    Personally I believe we should change the constitution to recognition of two equal National languages - that would be closer to reality. English effectively is the first language but we still need to recognise the cultural importance of Irish.

    I suspect that state favours for Gaelgeoirs in state employment, education and monetary grants work against the adoption of Irish by the wider population. If you are an Irish speaker and you have these advantages the last thing you want is for every Tomais, Risteard agus Harry to start speaking Irish - that would be a disaster because you would lose your position of special privilege. Such incentives make Gaelgeoirs sub-consciously possessive of Irish and exclusive towards non-speakers. It might explain why the teaching of Irish is so poor compared to the teaching of modern European languages. But that's social engineering for you - the state's attempts to promote Irish a can be called a form of social engineering and when you go down that road you enter a wonderful whacky world of perverse incentives and unintended consequences.


  • #136
    Doc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭Doc


    I voted No. I love the fact we have or own language. I have often been in another country and have had people think we where part of England or British, telling them we are our own republic with our own language and being able to say something in Irish to them reinforces the differences in our cultures.

    Although I am by no means a fluent Irish speaker I can string a sentence together in Irish, I think that most of you who have lived and been educated in Ireland could do the same. If the majority of the country had the ability to speak both Irish and English fluently then I would speak Irish.

    If this was the case and you where suddenly given the ability to speak Irish (If you can’t already do so) and so was everyone else in Ireland would you continue to speak English in your everyday life?

    Slightly off topic but I believe Irish should be taught by a separate Irish teacher in primary school. You would be amazed (or perhaps not) at the amount of people currently teaching with very poor Irish language skills. It is also a barrier for people wishing to teach in Ireland.


  • #137
    AvrilLavigne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭AvrilLavigne


    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    This, this shit right here?
    This is why people hate your goddamn language. Because you act like a bunch of elitist fucksticks.

    Thank you for your feedback. We value your opinion.


  • #138
    culabula
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭culabula


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Irish is all Greek to me. :P

    That's a riot!!


  • #139
    culabula
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭culabula


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    I hope everyone who voted to keep Irish the national language gets aids


    Tá mé ag déanamh go bhfuil tú ag caint fán SEIF ach ní tharlaíonn sé sin, acht do lucht a' bhéarla, mar atá a fhios ag an tsaoghal mhór!!!


  • #140
    AvrilLavigne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭AvrilLavigne


    culabula wrote: »
    Tá mé ag déanamh go bhfuil tú ag caint fán SEIF ach ní tharlaíonn sé sin, acht do lucht a' bhéarla, mar atá a fhios ag an tsaoghal mhór!!!

    Tá siúl agam go bfhaigh an buidéal deatach seif cait! (Mura bfhuil sé aige cheana!)


  • #141
    cornbb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    Or the fact that it's pratically dead, poorly taught and mostly useless. Irish has no pratical application for most people, why waste your time?

    I'd hate to live in a world where only things with a quantifiable "practical application for most people" have value. We could say goodbye to art, culture, freedom of expression, individuality and all that jazz.

    Saying the language is practically dead is simply untrue, there are tens of thousands of families and businesses in Ireland that use Irish as their first language every day.


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  • #142
    culabula
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭culabula


    AvrilLavigne wrote: »
    Tá siúl agam go bfhaigh an buidéal deatach seif cait! (Mura bfhuil sé aige cheana!)

    Leoga, tá, bí cinnte de sin, chan fhuil aon dabhat ar bith faoi.....:-)

    "tá an teangaidh mhaith Bhéarla
    ag De Valera,
    nach dtuigfeadh focal
    dá bhfuil mé ag radh"


  • #143
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    cornbb wrote: »
    I'd hate to live in a world where only things with a quantifiable "practical application for most people" have value. We could say goodbye to art, culture, freedom of expression, individuality and all that jazz.

    Yes, after we're done with irish we're taking individuality next. It's all part of the plan.
    Actually, i've been meaning to ask, when you type that maudlin bullshit, does a part of you die inside? I'd reckon it'd have to, seeing as that kind of rubbish appeal to emotions is practically toxic to look at.

    jesus christ, the language is as good as dead, It's useless beyond our own borders, mostly useless within them hasn't evolved in decades and yet is still an enforced part of our curriculum for at least thirteen or so years.

    Frankly, if people *want* to learn it, fine, but it's useless beyond being a curiosity.
    cornbb wrote: »
    Saying the language is practically dead is simply untrue, there are tens of thousands of families and businesses in Ireland that use Irish as their first language every day.

    I'm calling bullshit on that, or at least labeling it as figures of the very massaged variety.


  • #144
    cornbb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    Yes, after we're done with irish we're taking individuality next. It's all part of the plan.
    Actually, i've been meaning to ask, when you type that maudlin bullshit, does a part of you die inside? I'd reckon it'd have to, seeing as that kind of rubbish appeal to emotions is practically toxic to look at.

    I'm not appealing to emotions, I'm calling you on your attempt to label Irish "useless" or "dead" when that is indisputably not the case. I'm also trying to point out the fact that just because you can't measure something's monetary value doesn't mean it doesn't have value.
    jesus christ, the language is as good as dead, It's useless beyond our own borders, mostly useless within them hasn't evolved in decades and yet is still an enforced part of our curriculum for at least thirteen or so years.

    Frankly, if people *want* to learn it, fine, but it's useless beyond being a curiosity.

    Don't you live in England? If you lived in the Gaelteacht, or Galway city where a good amount of knowledge and respect for Irish language and culture exists, or even in Dublin where there are still pockets of daily speakers, you'd recognise the reality that the Irish language is an integral part of life for a lot of people. Dismissing it as "dead" or "useless" is just being dismissive of the facts and is tantamount to throwing a tantrum just because you don't like it. You merely dislike the language, just accept that it is part of daily life for thousands of others.
    I'm calling bullshit on that, or at least labeling it as figures of the very massaged variety.

    Take your pick from these figures
    EDIT: forgot the link: http://www.gaeltachttravel.com/gaeltacht-regions/statistics-on-the-gaeltacht-and-the-irish-language/
    More interesting are percentages of Irish speakers in the Gaeltacht regions. In all Gaeltachtaí 72.6% are fluent in Irish (62,157 people).

    And this graph would indicate that if it is "dead" someone hasn't told the census takers: http://www.gaeltachttravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/nb_irish_speakers.gif Hey look at that! The number of Irish speakers is skyrocketing! Someone should tell them its actually useless...


  • #145
    AvrilLavigne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭AvrilLavigne


    thelordofcheese wrote: »
    Yes, after we're done with irish we're taking individuality next. It's all part of the plan.
    Actually, i've been meaning to ask, when you type that maudlin bullshit, does a part of you die inside? I'd reckon it'd have to, seeing as that kind of rubbish appeal to emotions is practically toxic to look at.

    jesus christ, the language is as good as dead, It's useless beyond our own borders, mostly useless within them hasn't evolved in decades and yet is still an enforced part of our curriculum for at least thirteen or so years.

    Frankly, if people *want* to learn it, fine, but it's useless beyond being a curiosity.



    I'm calling bullshit on that, or at least labeling it as figures of the very massaged variety.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58183108#post58183108

    Read it again son!


  • #146
    javaboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    cornbb wrote: »
    I'd hate to live in a world where only things with a quantifiable "practical application for most people" have value. We could say goodbye to art, culture, freedom of expression, individuality and all that jazz.

    That's all well and good but why should people who aren't interested in it be forced to endure it? Compulsory teaching an almost useless language to kids in school is stupid.
    Saying the language is practically dead is simply untrue, there are tens of thousands of families and businesses in Ireland that use Irish as their first language every day.

    It's on life support at best. Artificially kept alive by government grants, compulsory teaching, bonus points for answering exams through it :mad: and pointless expensive translations of documents etc.


  • #147
    cornbb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    javaboy wrote: »
    That's all well and good but why should people who aren't interested in it be forced to endure it? Compulsory teaching an almost useless language to kids in school is stupid.

    *shrug* why teach maths when most people will never need it in their working lives? I don't have any strong opinions one way or the other about compulsory Irish in schools. I'd have a much bigger problem with religious indoctrination, but thats for another thread...
    It's on life support at best. Artificially kept alive by government grants, compulsory teaching, bonus points for answering exams through it :mad: and pointless expensive translations of documents etc.

    Not only is it being spoken by an increasing number of people (whereas the number of people being born in this country has been falling for over 150 years) but its "approval ratings", if you will, have been possibly at the highest ever level. I don't have figures to back that up, but I'd argue that it is the case from talking to people of older generations. I recognise that the Irish language is being kept alive partially through grants etc, but there really is a significant minority of areas in the country where it is just naturally kept alive. Monetarily speaking, the Irish language is indeed "loss-making" but then again so are listed buildings, most forms of art, etc.


  • #148
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    AvrilLavigne wrote: »
    Thank God (or Eamonn O Cuiv) that we have planning laws that prevent the likes of you living anywhere near us! Tháinig ár lá ach níor thuig sibh é!
    I have to agree with thelordofcheese in his response to this anyway. No wonder many get their hackles up when people spout this elitist nonsense. No wonder people don't use it daily to the degree the language nazis like to think. Namechecking O' Cuiv? Jesus, I suspect O Cuiv is equally moronic in any language. Whenever I see that rubber faced buffoon on the box I see the retarded echo of the gobsheenism that has ruined this country for far too long. Ironically if he seeks to ghettoise the fervent spittle lipped elitists then at least he serves a useful purpose.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #149
    Also Starring LeVar Burton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    javaboy wrote: »
    It's on life support at best. Artificially kept alive by government grants, compulsory teaching, bonus points for answering exams through it :mad: and pointless expensive translations of documents etc.

    That's a load of BS.
    Myself and the majority of the people I spend time with only speak Gaeilge to one another and we're not in the Gaeltacht, not working for any organisations in which Gaeilge is the primary language in which business is done, but just because we want to and because we can.
    Saying anything is dying, merely because it doesn't play a role in your life is the highest form of ignorance. If you want to make broad statements condemning the national language, why don't you do a bit of research first and you'll find that you're wrong.
    A leithéad de phlóta ni fhaca mé riamh.


  • #150
    AvrilLavigne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭AvrilLavigne


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I have to agree with thelordofcheese in his response to this anyway. No wonder many get their hackles up when people spout this elitist nonsense. No wonder people don't use it daily to the degree the language nazis like to think. Namechecking O' Cuiv? Jesus, I suspect O Cuiv is equally moronic in any language. Whenever I see that rubber faced buffoon on the box I see the retarded echo of the gobsheenism that has ruined this country for far too long. Ironically if he seeks to ghettoise the fervent spittle lipped elitists then at least he serves a useful purpose.

    Yes, you agree sheep! Maybe the moaning cheese stick will move next to you and ye can moan away while we live in harmony with the the Irish, English, Polish etc. who like and welcome diversity, difference and fun.

    Sieg Heil Wibbs and Cheese! One race! One language! Blue eyes! Blond Hair!


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  • #151
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    You see I call bullshít on the census figures. Yes people self report that they speak it, but self reporting as a way of gathering statistics is about as useful a chocolate fireguard. On that basis every geek on the web has a ten inch mickey and every woman on facebook is a size 8. I can think of two people who say they speak Irish and I know more bloody words in it and I can't.

    Lets say those figures and your perceptions are accurate. OK then we get to fluency. Are you trying to tell me that the fluency in English is lower than the fluency in Irish in those tens of thousands of households and businesses? You're frankly kidding yourself if you think that.

    From your link(hardly biased of course);
    there was 1,570,894 Irish speakers in the country as opposed to 2,180,101 Non-Irish speakers. An Irish speaker is defined as a person who claims that they can speak Irish, but who do not necessarily use it in their daily life. The largest number of Irish speakers live in Leinster (511,639), followed by Munster (352,177), Connacht (162,680) and the three counties of Ulster which are in the Republic (69,334). However the percentage of Irish speakers is the lowest in Leinster (38.2%), the highest in Connacht and Munster (48.5% and 46.8% respectively).
    One and a half million Irish speakers? Eh yea, right. Look at your window and observe the majestic sight of pigs flying south for the winter(away from the dioxins). I like the caveat too; "claims that they can speak Irish, but who do not necessarily use it in their daily life". Hmmmmmm that's about right. Leinster with half a million potential O'Cuivs? I have never and I mean never heard Irish spoken in Leinster, beyond mangled attempts in school. In my life. Actually that's not true and hyperbole on my part. I have heard it spoken, maybe 3 or 4 times in my life. In only one instance and household did it even come close to fluency.

    A language that is not fluent and a language that is artificially propped up and would likely die without such support, hardly deserves the title. Basque, the languages of the former soviet controlled nations have all survived and thrived and are living breathing languages with full fluency and usefulness. All of those languages were banned or severely restricted at one time(the east European ones only had 15 years or so of freedom). Now they are actually used fluently, every day, by the majority of those people who consider themselves Basque or Estonian etc. Irish and it's all too rabid supporters simply looks pathetic by comparison in it's attempts to describe itself as a living language.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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