DEAP/BER Issues (Merged)

sinnerboy · 18-10-2008 10:08AM

did you omit chimneys . and hole in wall vents ? and enter air test result of min Q50 5

topcatcbr · 18-10-2008 10:17AM

sinnerboy wrote: »

did you omit chimneys . and hole in wall vents ? and enter air test result of min Q50 5

yes and the best i got was to equal that of no mech

Do-more · 23-10-2008 09:27AM

Article in todays Irish Times:

Here comes energy rating

The building energy ratings (BER) steam roller is gathering pace and in just over two months the same energy ratings which have applied to new homes since the start of the year will apply to all existing homes and buildings.

Earlier this week Sustainable Energy Ireland published details of how new homes have been faring under the new system.

So far over 2,500 new homes have been assessed and only 8 per cent have achieved an A certificate, 82 per cent have received B ratings and 10 per cent secured C ratings.

Simply told, BER is similar to the energy label on a fridge and carries a scale from A to G, with A being the most efficient. Anyone selling or letting a new home has to have a BER cert at hand. The same will apply to anyone selling or renting existing homes from next year.

SEI reckons that the majority of existing Irish homes will have a D1 rating when they come to be assessed.

The BER makes the energy performance of a home visible to prospective buyers and tenants and gives them a simple way of judging the energy credentials of a home before buying.

The simplest way of assessing any BER claims being made by a developer or vendor is to get the BER number from them and check it out on the national BER register on SEI's website at www.sei.ie/ber.

sydthebeat · 24-10-2008 01:13PM

Heres on for ye:

Granny Flats needs BERs...

"A "Granny-Flat", treated as a separate dwelling under planning conditions, will require a BER. A Revised version of NAS will be able to account for multiple dwellings under the same MPRN number"

No6 · 24-10-2008 03:21PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Heres on for ye:

Granny Flats needs BERs...

"A "Granny-Flat", treated as a separate dwelling under planning conditions, will require a BER. A Revised version of NAS will be able to account for multiple dwellings under the same MPRN number"

If it takes as long as the current revisions we'll all be grannies and grandfathers by the time they get it released.

muffler · 24-10-2008 05:44PM

too late

sydthebeat · 28-10-2008 03:59PM

can someone please remind me again as to when 'supplementary immersion heating is used in summer'..??

I know at the last SEI seminar i went to the picked this up as a common mistake and i cant rmember the situation when you include it...?? thanks..

edit: found it, ta!!

An immersion is to be included in the following cases:

Case A:
Where the main water heating system is incapable of providing hot water without space heating e.g. manual solid fuel room heater with back boiler.
• Under water heating tab “supplementary water heating in summer” set to yes
• Secondary water heating fuel type = electricity

Case B:
Where there is a heat pump with an immersion:
• Supplementary immersion used in summer set to “no”
• Secondary water heating fuel type set to none
• Efficiency of main water heater set to result of equation G1 in the DEAP manual, appendix G. This accounts for the immersion.
• Main water heater fuel type is electricity

sydthebeat · 28-10-2008 04:22PM

Just did a prelim on a 2 storey with typical spec...
oil boiler 86%
0 efficient lighting
open fire back boiler
min element u values, masonry
0.15 TB factor (yes!)
etc

I had to do my best to get it from a B3 rating to a C1..... (2 storey boxes seems to be very attrictive to DEAP)....
but my CDER is in excess of MPCDER..... by 2 kg/m2/yr....

(thats almost 1/2 ton per year, to anyone thinking im being picky)

Its surprising how such a base line spec can give such a good rating and at the same time, and more importantly, the CDER can be terrible....

fishfoodie · 28-10-2008 05:16PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Just did a prelim on a 2 storey with typical spec...
oil boiler 86%
0 efficient lighting
open fire back boiler
min element u values, masonry
0.15 TB factor (yes!)
etc

I had to do my best to get it from a B3 rating to a C1..... (2 storey boxes seems to be very attrictive to DEAP)....
but my CDER is in excess of MPCDER..... by 2 kg/m2/yr.... (thats almost 1/2 ton per year, to anyone thinking im being picky)

Its surprising how such a base line spec can give such a good rating and at the same time, and more importantly, the CDER can be terrible....

For the very slow...i.e. Me

Are you saying that the DEAP software gives a rather 'rose tinted' view of a lot of existing housing ?

This is a bit odd considering it also seems to dump on Passive Houses if they don't include some kind of renewable heat source, no matter how unnecessary.

Was the DEAP software designed by committee, by any chance ?

sydthebeat · 28-10-2008 05:25PM

fishfoodie wrote: »

For the very slow...i.e. Me

Are you saying that the DEAP software gives a rather 'rose tinted' view of a lot of existing housing ?

This is a bit odd considering it also seems to dump on Passive Houses if they don't include some kind of renewable heat source, no matter how unnecessary.

Was the DEAP software designed by committee, by any chance ?

fishfoodie... you need to understand the ideology behind DEAP...

Its simply a methodology used to compare building with one another, therefore it makes big assumptions during its calculations...

DEAP is used as a software to compare the whole housing stock, existing and new, with each other... where as the phpp (passive house software) is used to calculate specific energy loadings for specific uses. They couldnt be more opposed!!!

eg DEAP always assumes a heating source, whereas phpp includes only a minimal standby heating source.....
so if a house is being assessed by DEAP which is passive, DEAP uses the standby heating source as th emain heating source to heat the whole house... and if that is, say, a heating element in a HRV system.. the DEAP calculates electricity as a mina heating fuel and thus the skewed results...

DEAP is fairly limited as a design tool....

sydthebeat · 29-10-2008 10:22AM

me again.....

Why does the MPCDER reduce when you introduce 100% low enegy light fittings??

sinnerboy · 29-10-2008 10:26AM

guessing .... because LELs don't give off ( much ) heat energy . DEAP factors this in and assumes more output is required from primary heat source

topcatcbr · 29-10-2008 10:55AM

same happens when you introduce a renewable fuel scource eg pellet biomass
I dont understand why either. the home hasnt changed

sydthebeat · 29-10-2008 10:56AM

sinnerboy wrote: »

guessing .... because LELs don't give off ( much ) heat energy . DEAP factors this in and assumes more output is required from primary heat source

hum..... but as standard bulbs are considered as part of the heating output, then shouldnt the MPCDER rise if LELs are used, to offset against the heat thats no longer coming from bulbs?

edit:...
ah, i think it comes from the energy needed to run standard incandescent bulbs.....
if 0% LELs are used then the energy needed is greater
if 100% LELS are used then energy needed is less, therefore MPCDER is reduced....

(i should have had a read of Part L 2005 earlier)....

topcatcbr · 29-10-2008 07:17PM

topcatcbr wrote: »

The test for existing dwellings is not published yet. The new software has not been released yet. Both were planned for the end of sept but this is now to be november as far as i know.

See link below for SEI page
http://www.sei.ie/index.asp?locID=1574&docID=-1

Deap 3 available now see link above
Still no undo button (sad:()

sinnerboy · 30-10-2008 02:07PM

http://www.sei.ie/uploadedfiles/InfoCentre/BER/DEAP_Survey_Guide%20_Version_1(1).pdf

demoreino · 30-10-2008 07:17PM

hi all
does anyone know are the prtb going to be insisting on a BER when registering a new tenant.
thanks in advance

Retro-Fit · 30-10-2008 09:26PM

Got to use the Deap software today at a training course, not much difference between methods for new and existing houses, trickiest bit is still the plumbing. Inputting renewables is straight-forward. U-values are assumed by date for existing. Air leakage factors are generous. A few glitches have been fixed and generally software hasen't changed much from 2.0. The Exam is going to be tricky. 50 multiple choice questions.

BER compliance is being left to the county councils, considering the great job they do with planning enforcement, it'll be a happy ever after.

guidance for property owners on BER
http://www.ipoa.ie/userfiles/File/ipoaenergydoc27final(2).pdf

topcatcbr · 30-10-2008 09:44PM

Retro-Fit wrote: »

Got to use the Deap software today at a training course, not much difference between methods for new and existing houses, trickiest bit is still the plumbing. Inputting renewables is straight-forward. U-values are assumed by date for existing. Air leakage factors are generous. A few glitches have been fixed and generally software hasen't changed much from 2.0. The Exam is going to be tricky. 50 multiple choice questions.

BER compliance is being left to the county councils, considering the great job they do with planning enforcement, it'll be a happy ever after.

guidance for property owners on BER
http://www.ipoa.ie/userfiles/File/ipoaenergydoc27final(2).pdf

Do you have any sample exams you wish to share

berass · 31-10-2008 07:38PM

There is a seminar and general meeting for Ber assessors in Athlone on the 6th Nov. in the Radisson Hotel.... and in Cork on the 7th Nov. in the Rochestown Park hotel. The meeting has been organised by the Ber assessor association of Irl. who have secured sponsorship for the seminar. The purpose of the meeting is to organise and activate a voice for assessors who have invested up to 11million euro .... with little or no return.

topcatcbr · 01-11-2008 11:53AM

berass wrote: »

There is a seminar and general meeting for Ber assessors in Athlone on the 6th Nov. in the Radisson Hotel.... and in Cork on the 7th Nov. in the Rochestown Park hotel. The meeting has been organised by the Ber assessor association of Irl. who have secured sponsorship for the seminar. The purpose of the meeting is to organise and activate a voice for assessors who have invested up to 11million euro .... with little or no return.

I got this Email and will try to be there.

No6 · 02-11-2008 03:36PM

Am I reading the application form correctly, the fee for the conference is 90 for registered assessors which also includes membership of the association. I'm supposed to be going to Plan expo on thursday but I could bend my route by Athlone to check it out. I might see you there topcatcbr!!!

ardara1 · 02-11-2008 04:40PM

No6 wrote: »

Am I reading the application form correctly, the fee for the conference is 90 for registered assessors which also includes membership of the association. I'm supposed to be going to Plan expo on thursday but I could bend my route by Athlone to check it out. I might see you there topcatcbr!!!

got a reminder through this weekend - the seminar is free, i imagine membership will be 'encouraged' during the presentation.

topcatcbr · 02-11-2008 04:44PM

No6 wrote: »

Am I reading the application form correctly, the fee for the conference is 90 for registered assessors which also includes membership of the association. I'm supposed to be going to Plan expo on thursday but I could bend my route by Athlone to check it out. I might see you there topcatcbr!!!

Where do you see the fee
All i got is below

The BER Assessor Association of Ireland
27/10/2008
The BER Assessor Association of Ireland is holding a Regional Seminar and General Meeting in Athlone on the 6th of November and in Cork on the 7th of November.

The agenda:

(1) Ray Hennessey Introduction 10.30 - 10.35
(2) Peter Rickaby key note address 10.35 - 12 .45
(3) SEI
(4) Q & A
(5) BER Assessors Association meeting 1.30 - 2.30

For further information please call Ray Hennessy on 086 8977329 or info@berassoc.ie

sinnerboy · 02-11-2008 04:59PM

RH told me membership is included in €90 fee

Mossyfields · 02-11-2008 07:14PM

I can confirm attendance on the day is now free. The association has secured additional funding and attendance at the Seminar is free, Only members will be able to attend the general meeting and membership is 60euro (available on the day). Peole who have paid the 90euro will get a rebate.

No6 · 03-11-2008 09:18AM

I was initally very dubious about the BER association, the first thing recieved from them being a demand for money so the fact that they are putting the sponsorship they recieve into lowering the cost of membership and putting the conference on for free is to my mind a good sign, I will definately go on thursday to check it out.

topcatcbr · 03-11-2008 10:07AM

See you all there

berass · 04-11-2008 09:01PM

Paula Rice from SEI will be speaking at the seminar, be prepared for some interesting news.

sinnerboy · 04-11-2008 09:06PM

Let me guess - implementation dates put back because SEI could not get their act together in time ?

DEAP/BER Issues (Merged)

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