DEAP/BER Issues (Merged)

sinnerboy

Have you actually issued BER certs TC ?

No6

Are you using the updated version of deap for existing dwellings or are you using the excel spread sheet Topcatcbr?

topcatcbr

sinnerboy wrote: »

Have you actually issued BER certs TC ?

I have published certs on HESS side of sei NAS site. its the very same except that the homeowners dont get the certs. They get the advisary report based on assessment for which the cert is published.

You cannot produce advisary report until you publish cert.

topcatcbr

No6 wrote: »

Are you using the updated version of deap for existing dwellings or are you using the excel spread sheet Topcatcbr?

Using the same deap software as for new dwellings. the updated software wont be available untill end sept at earliest ASFASIK

sinnerboy

Just heard that the new DEAP software , to include for existing houses , will be available from 29th September . I assume ( but don't know for sure ) that it will also contain compliance with TGD L 2007 sections

I will confirm this when I can ( unless anyone else beats me to it )

Villain

I did a test run of an assesment with a friend who is going to do the course and my cardbon rating was higher than my maximum?

No6

sinnerboy wrote: »

Just heard that the new DEAP software , to include for existing houses , will be available from 29th September . I assume ( but don't know for sure ) that it will also contain compliance with TGD L 2007 sections

I will confirm this when I can ( unless anyone else beats me to it )

So where does this leave all those course booked for september, is there any point in doing them is there's no software available??

sinnerboy

No6 wrote: »

So where does this leave all those course booked for september, is there any point in doing them is there's no software available??

My course provider put my course back to October

sinnerboy

Villain wrote: »

I did a test run of an assesment with a friend who is going to do the course and my cardbon rating was higher than my maximum?

could well be V . Try higher % of low energy lighting . Or wood stove for secondary heat source . Assuming not too late

Chimpster

sinnerboy wrote: »

could well be V . Try higher % of low energy lighting . Or wood stove for secondary heat source . Assuming not too late

I've played around with the sample spreadsheet but I keep getting errors... I've mailed SEI but no responce yet.

I have a client and I've specified enough solar to get to 10 Kwh/m2/yr. I've also specified the correct amount of galzing based on new regs. But the spreadsheet wont let me calculate the CPC and MPC.

The house will have a condensing gas boiler, 90% low energy lighting and prob gas secondary heating.

Any of ye have any idea if this will pass the carbon test!?!

Villain

sinnerboy wrote: »

could well be V . Try higher % of low energy lighting . Or wood stove for secondary heat source . Assuming not too late

I had 100% low energy and HRV system with heat recovery, it really doesn't like oil burner with Emersion secondary!

sinnerboy

Chimpster wrote: »

I've played around with the sample spreadsheet but I keep getting errors... I've mailed SEI but no responce yet.

I have a client and I've specified enough solar to get to 10 Kwh/m2/yr. I've also specified the correct amount of galzing based on new regs. But the spreadsheet wont let me calculate the CPC and MPC.

The house will have a condensing gas boiler, 90% low energy lighting and prob gas secondary heating.

Any of ye have any idea if this will pass the carbon test!?!

Sorry chimpster not familiar with excell DEAP - only the software

Again wood stove secondary source is a bit of a silver bullet

Chimpster

sinnerboy wrote: »

Sorry chimpster not familiar with excell DEAP - only the software

Again wood stove secondary source is a bit of a silver bullet

Sinnerboy,

SEI has a trail spreadsheet available with the new part L 'functionality' built in. One of the tabs on the sheet does the calculations for MPC and CPC. However the bloody thing keeps giving me errors, so its useless until I get some feedback from SEI.

Should I be able to calculate these from the current version of DEAP I wonder? Must dig through Part L... yawn....

topcatcbr

Villain wrote: »

I had 100% low energy and HRV system with heat recovery, it really doesn't like oil burner with Emersion secondary!

Remove the emersion from the data. It is only put in for secondary heating when water cannot be heated from main boiler alone. In other words if you cannot turn on the boiler for hot water only then you put in the emmersion.

Remove any chimneys and put in stoves, remember to adjust the effeciency for the secondary heat source.

sinnerboy

Chimpster wrote: »

Should I be able to calculate these from the current version of DEAP I wonder? Must dig through Part L... yawn....

if you have DEAP software ( which is set up to verify aspects of TGDL 05 ) input data into it . And then manually adjust MPCDER - i mean by using pencil and paper - you can't "make" the software do it

Jimbo

Has anyone done their training online?
I'm tempted to do it online to save taking time off work but do you get the same result?
Is it alot more difficult?

MicktheMan

Came accross this scenario recently while doing assessment on new house.
Heat use for heating season (kWh/y) Oct - May = 7500
Peak month (Jan) = 1596 kWh (daily = 51.5kWh and 8 hrs/day gives about 6.5kW)

Boiler installed was 120,000 btu (35kW) condensing with adjusted efficiency of 92.8%. This boiler is clearly way oversized for the job and yet there is no mechanism in DEAP to input boiler size nor does it affect the rating.:cool:

MicktheMan

sinnerboy wrote: »

Just heard that the new DEAP software , to include for existing houses , will be available from 29th September . I assume ( but don't know for sure ) that it will also contain compliance with TGD L 2007 sections

I will confirm this when I can ( unless anyone else beats me to it )

I was talking to someone in SEI today and I was told that the new software is now expected in October. I got the impression that it wasn't early October either!! Anyone else hear this?

rosh1

I was just wondering if anyone has been following what is happening in England with their energy performance certificates. It seems fees have fallen to an average of £49-69 as assessors are undercutting each other to get work. After paying for fees, fuel other expenses there is not much left to live on. they are saying that there are too many assessors and the work is drying up as a cert lasts 10 years.

the same could happen here. From what i read elsewhere there are 561 registered assessors with SEI and a furthur 1600 who passed their exams but did not register (of which I am one). And more will probably do the course making the situation worse. That would make too many assessors for the volume of work available.

Most of the work will be done by Engineers/Architects offices and Auctioneers who can hide the BER fee among their overall fee and there will be very little left for any independent assessors. I know two local Auctioneers one a national firm that are offering it and will be offering it with their lettings dept in 2009 and they can inspect the property and do the energy rating at the same time. Kill two birds with the one stone.

i reckon 350 to 400 assessors is all that is really needed to make it sustainable. A lot of people may not recover their course fees.

Does anyone know assessors in England that could throw more light on the situation there, which more than likely will be repeated in Ireland.

DOCARCH

What's the story?

Got email Friday re: the formation of the 'Association of Building Energy Rater's'

Got email today re: the formation of 'Energy Assessors Association of Ireland'

Anybody know who/what these people are about and who is behind them?

Seems like a good idea to have some form of association however having two (or more) 'associations', in my opinion, will be a complete waste of time!

It's like the People's Judean Front!

No6

I got the same emails and replied to both looking for more details and I got a reply from one of them, fees are a 150 registrastion fee and 250 per year which was one question I asked, the other relating to who and what wasn't terribly well covered. I intend to send a further email and would want to get a hell of a lot more information before I'd consider joining. I am also an architectural technoligist and have seen the efforts of a number of my collegues in setting up a professional representitive body for AT's. They have 1600 people on their mailing list and have been working very hard for three or four years at this stage and they still havn't looked for a penny so excuse me if I'm very very dubious about the BER effort.

Anyway I want to be in the Peoples Liberation Front of Judea all the others are just rubbish!!!:D

MicktheMan

Got 'em too.
I replied looking for the details of the people behind them and have not got any details except "committed individuals who's aim is to expand the energy assessment profession and give us a national association".

I am very wary of such suspicious emails and especially so if the amounts mentioned above are their registration fees etc. What do they need such sums for? (Mental maths, say 100 assessors sign up, then 25k per annum to run an association, 1000 assessors then 250k !!!!)

I'll do it for half that:D

No6

MicktheMan wrote: »

Got 'em too.
I replied looking for the details of the people behind them and have not got any details except "committed individuals who's aim is to expand the energy assessment profession and give us a national association".

I am very wary of such suspicious emails and especially so if the amounts mentioned above are their registration fees etc. What do they need such sums for? (Mental maths, say 100 assessors sign up, then 25k per annum to run an association, 1000 assessors then 250k !!!!)

I'll do it for half that:D

Its not another money making scheme from the poor old BER assessors so far we've had the trainers, SEI, Blower door and thermal imaging selling poeple, every magazine you can think of selling advertising!!! Is there any BER assessors who have at least recouped their initial investment yet!!!

I think we need a represntative body but it should be run by volunteers for free in a transparent manner not another con job!!!!

topcatcbr

I got these emails also and same as No 6 replied to both. I do not think that the €400 fee is realistic and smacks of rip off. I am in a couple of other (more established) professional orgs and do not pay this to either.

sinnerboy

Did the BER training in Jan . Registered in May . No certs issued yet .

Been offered training to to become an air pressure tester . And GET THIS - to become a renewables installer ( heat pumps , solar panels and WP boilers - 3 day course )

I am self assured enough to admit here that my installation skills amount to replacing a fuse in a plug top .

As a BER Assessor what concerns me now is - what kind of back up / testing instalation "certs" will I be asked to include in my ( eventual ) assessments ?

We need an army of Jedi Knights to sort this one . I will await that before signing any more cheques

DOCARCH

Yeah - sounds like a bit of a rip-off at those sort of figures! A big FO I think. I thought, as suggested above, it might be a voluntary association. I wonder what SEIs view on this is?

I suspect these 'associations' are being set up by people who thought they could make a career out of BERs but have now realised the truth! Nice little earner! Don't see any real advantage to it - probably more than enough information here on Boards.

I have been registered since February but have only had 1 enquiry about doing a BER (I have not actually done one!). I suspect SEI may have assessors dropping off the registration list next year?

topcatcbr

The uptake has been disappointing to say the least. I did my course in Oct last year and registered in Jan this year. I have done quite a few houses due to the HESS Pilot Scheme (I have recouped some of my initial costs from this) and have had a few enquiries outside this but have only done a couple. I think it will be interesting when SEI do their next assessor workshop. There wear a lot of disenchanted people at the last one. SEI had the excuse it was early days and planned a substantial advertising campaign. apart from a few adverts on the radio and auctioneers mags i haven't heard much. In fact SEI have not been up to speed on any of their commitments with deadline after deadline being pushed back. I haven't heard of anyone doing or advertising BERs on commercial or industrial as of yet.

mantoreilly

Can anybody tell me what equipment will be used to carry out assessment of an existing dwelling? Will electronic equipment be used to determine u values of walls?

sinnerboy

no - pull down menu of values based on building age

mantoreilly

That’s bull****.What if there is several types of construction from different periods incorporated into a dwelling or say for example insulation was pumped into a cavity wall and this information was not passed on. Will the assessor have to carry out a destructive test to determine this? Surely there is something electronic out there that can determine individual K and U values.