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The price of Cigarettes.

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  • Options
    #152
    LowEndFreq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29 ✭LowEndFreq


    Nick_oliveri wrote: »
    I think its bull tbh, either make them illegal or stop raking in money off the junkie fools (like me) who buy them. Addiction=profit.

    Is sex an addiction? I think it is.... 1 euro for a condom?

    Ha, i think its more than an addiction... A desire for sex is programmed into our bodies so as to insure the existance of the human race! you can't get more addicted than that!

    But, as a smoker, and a student, this price hike has really affected me. Although I know it was my fault to get addicted (well, as a kid, it's a lot easier to succumb to peer pressure) I do think that a 50c up was completely unfair. As a student, I have to budget very carefully so as to have enough money to survive and stay in college! I know its just 50 cent, but it can really offset a careful balance.


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    #153
    LEIN
    Moderators Posts: 9,936 ✭✭✭LEIN


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    What about the stories about people qeueuing for ages to save 8c a litre on petrol ?
    Cost / benefit analysis would suggest it paid less than the mimimum wage per hour before you take the cost of driving to the garage and leaving the engine running.


    I can never understand that.

    A mate of mine drives miles out of his way to get petrol that's a few cent cheaper and wastes the saving or even costs him more to go the distance!

    Buying a few extra cigarettes the night before they go up ain't going to be a great saving.

    You need to go to Spain and bring back thousands.

    That would pay for your plane and you would still save a few bob!


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    #154
    The Bollox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,372 ✭✭✭The Bollox


    wow. the first page is full of thankers.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    you heard me!


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    #155
    LEIN
    Moderators Posts: 9,936 ✭✭✭LEIN


    The Bollox wrote: »
    wow. the first page is full of thankers.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    you heard me!


    Might as well get the ball rolling on this page so....

    You thanker!


  • Options
    #156
    Nick_oliveri
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Nick_oliveri


    LowEndFreq wrote: »
    Ha, i think its more than an addiction... A desire for sex is programmed into our bodies so as to insure the existance of the human race! you can't get more addicted than that!

    But, as a smoker, and a student, this price hike has really affected me. Although I know it was my fault to get addicted (well, as a kid, it's a lot easier to succumb to peer pressure) I do think that a 50c up was completely unfair. As a student, I have to budget very carefully so as to have enough money to survive and stay in college! I know its just 50 cent, but it can really offset a careful balance.

    Exactly, paying through our rings for an addiction is counter productive. Getting the patch on the soon to be fukked medical card is all fair and well, but "profiteering" off addicts is ****ed, and criminal. And just because the money helps cancer patients that have lung cancer or other cig fueled cancers DOESN'T address or fix the problem.

    I seen an aussie pack of cigs there yesterday, nasty image taking over the whole packet of some dude or dudess with mouth cancer. I think thats hippo-critical, you either sell the cancer sticks, or you dont.

    And let me address another issue, no amount of extra tax is going to stop "teens" or childers buying ciggarettes. All it takes is a couple of cigs and a good few inhalations and thats it. 8 fecking euro is chump change to a lot of secondary school students. I remember sacrificing lunch for cigs in secondary school, it may not have been chump change for me, but i still got them, and the next generation will be smarter and will have better means to purchase.


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    #157
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    dsmythy wrote: »
    This is nothing to do with smokers' health. It's all about raising money.
    Theres is the law of "deminishing returns". Im off them since they were €6 a pack and have no intention of going back on them. If they wanted raise more money they would drop the price.


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    #158
    dermo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    Overall, in developed nations, such as Ireland (or should I say, pretending to be developed), the aim is to reduce tobacco consumption. Governments normally use a factor of inflation +5% for calculation purposes. Governments usually recommend setting tobacco prices for a packet of 20 at 45 minutes at minimum wage in developed/developing countries. Compare and contrast the salaries on offer in various countries, and you should see a correlation.

    I am a smoker myself, and I am aware of the implications. But even though tobacco and alcohol are socially undesirable, we must ask, is it worth putting a whole industry into the hands of criminals and black marketeers. Its politically expedient and popular amongst the majority to consistently raise
    the taxes on these products,

    The Swedish realised this in the early 1990's, as did the Finnish, knowing that there was a great deal of leakage through tobacco smuggling.

    The high taxes are merely a whitewash that makes Ireland look better than it is in the eyes of the likes of the World Health Organisation.

    The high taxes merely lead to a resentment of the state. I do not mind paying tax when it leads to productive, good quality public services, but ....

    The high taxes merely lead to forcing people to have less respect for the laws.

    And finally, the high taxes do take advantage of Irelands geographical position, with an inelastic product, as we do not have the ability to hop over to a "cheaper" country so easily. Door to door, even going through Dublin Airport, you are still talking of a 5 hour journey to get to the "cheap" destination in order to save that money, whereas our continental counterparts can just drive in a lot of cases, and earn more also.

    Smokers are citizens also. You got the smoking ban at the height of the economic boom, and then I can show also, that prices on both tobacco and alcohol during the Celtic Tiger era. In 1997, a packet of 20 cost IEP2.82, which equates to 3.58 Euro, and now it costs ????

    During periods of economic prosperity, people do smoke and drink more. We drank heavily as it was in the hard times, and then many of the "pioneer/abstinence" generation have/are dying off due to the secularisation of society. This is one reason why the statistical consumption of alcohol per capita rose. Another was the arrival of the 1970-1980 Baby boom generation around the same period, who consume and contribute a lot more through sin taxes between their late teens and mid twenties, at which point consumption normally drops dramatically.

    Rather than resort to the hypocrisy of higher taxes, if the state really wanted to reduce sales, it should do so through restricting the outlets and hours of sale for tobacco, just as they do with alcohol. Its a crude system, no system of taxation is in essence "fair", but for anyone to call for higher taxes needs their head examined.

    Cannot win during an economic boom, cannot win in a recession.

    Frankly, in a shrinking economy, the aim should be to reduce taxes, and reduce costs, and this ....unfortunately....does include reducing taxes on undesirable products such as tobacco. Each and every tax, from the TV Licence, to the Bin Tax, to a host of others, I could list has dramatically impacted on our competitiveness and our desirability as a place to live in the past 10 years. But all these taxes went up (pardon the pun), in a puff of smoke, and the economy was a train wreck waiting to happen. So yet again, smokers have to pay.

    Do you be patriotic and continue paying these taxes, or do you choose to pay them into the hands of criminal syndicates. Having said that, at least it might keep a few people employed delivering a few on the sly, and making an extra 20-50 Euro per day on the side.


  • Options
    #159
    Lexus1976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Lexus1976


    dermo88 wrote: »
    Overall, in developed nations, such as Ireland (or should I say, pretending to be developed), the aim is to reduce tobacco consumption. Governments normally use a factor of inflation +5% for calculation purposes. Governments usually recommend setting tobacco prices for a packet of 20 at 45 minutes at minimum wage in developed/developing countries. Compare and contrast the salaries on offer in various countries, and you should see a correlation.

    I am a smoker myself, and I am aware of the implications. But even though tobacco and alcohol are socially undesirable, we must ask, is it worth putting a whole industry into the hands of criminals and black marketeers. Its politically expedient and popular amongst the majority to consistently raise
    the taxes on these products,

    The Swedish realised this in the early 1990's, as did the Finnish, knowing that there was a great deal of leakage through tobacco smuggling.

    The high taxes are merely a whitewash that makes Ireland look better than it is in the eyes of the likes of the World Health Organisation.

    The high taxes merely lead to a resentment of the state. I do not mind paying tax when it leads to productive, good quality public services, but ....

    The high taxes merely lead to forcing people to have less respect for the laws.

    And finally, the high taxes do take advantage of Irelands geographical position, with an inelastic product, as we do not have the ability to hop over to a "cheaper" country so easily. Door to door, even going through Dublin Airport, you are still talking of a 5 hour journey to get to the "cheap" destination in order to save that money, whereas our continental counterparts can just drive in a lot of cases, and earn more also.

    Smokers are citizens also. You got the smoking ban at the height of the economic boom, and then I can show also, that prices on both tobacco and alcohol during the Celtic Tiger era. In 1997, a packet of 20 cost IEP2.82, which equates to 3.58 Euro, and now it costs ????

    During periods of economic prosperity, people do smoke and drink more. We drank heavily as it was in the hard times, and then many of the "pioneer/abstinence" generation have/are dying off due to the secularisation of society. This is one reason why the statistical consumption of alcohol per capita rose. Another was the arrival of the 1970-1980 Baby boom generation around the same period, who consume and contribute a lot more through sin taxes between their late teens and mid twenties, at which point consumption normally drops dramatically.

    Rather than resort to the hypocrisy of higher taxes, if the state really wanted to reduce sales, it should do so through restricting the outlets and hours of sale for tobacco, just as they do with alcohol. Its a crude system, no system of taxation is in essence "fair", but for anyone to call for higher taxes needs their head examined.

    Cannot win during an economic boom, cannot win in a recession.

    Frankly, in a shrinking economy, the aim should be to reduce taxes, and reduce costs, and this ....unfortunately....does include reducing taxes on undesirable products such as tobacco. Each and every tax, from the TV Licence, to the Bin Tax, to a host of others, I could list has dramatically impacted on our competitiveness and our desirability as a place to live in the past 10 years. But all these taxes went up (pardon the pun), in a puff of smoke, and the economy was a train wreck waiting to happen. So yet again, smokers have to pay.

    Do you be patriotic and continue paying these taxes, or do you choose to pay them into the hands of criminal syndicates. Having said that, at least it might keep a few people employed delivering a few on the sly, and making an extra 20-50 Euro per day on the side.


    Huh!


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    #160
    sinlessgunner
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭sinlessgunner


    I say make them €20 a box. They are the scourge of humanity. Why people want to destroy their bodies for "stress relief" is beyond me. Smokers better hope I never get into government!


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    #161
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    dermo88 wrote:
    Smokers are citizens also.
    So are murderers and rapists. But we don't give them equal rights to do as they please.

    Another way of saying is that smokers are voters but primary school kids aren't and won't be until several elections time so politicians can ignore them and their needs.

    maybe instead of removing medical card from over 70's they could remove some medical cover from smokers for diseases that are over 90% smoking related ??


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    #162
    dermo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    Sinlessgunner - 20 Euro a pack should happen some year around 2024 if the current pace of increases are maintained.


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    #163
    jaffa20
    Registered Users Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    I'm sick and tired of anti-smokers coming on here and giving out that the price is too low. Come on!! 8Euro a packet is not too low. The government were right not to increase cigarettes by 2euro. They don't want people to stop smoking because it is where the biggest % of their taxes comes from. So, i'm glad they taxed the guys who can't take the train or bus to work and brought in an incentive for cyclists. Certain People will never be happy with a budget but i am in this case.


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    #164
    dermo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    1. I know its disgusting, but for heavens sake, give us a break. We have been more than willing to abide by the laws, such as the ban on smoking in pubs.

    2. Ireland now has the 2nd most expensive cigarettes in the developed world, 2nd to Norway, and 1/3 of their adult population STILL smoke, despite their high relative cost. Smokers have tolerated the increases, but at what point do smokers start fighting back. What happens then. I doubt it will happen, it manages to keep us passive and docile.

    3. Captain Midnight, its somewhat amusing to see smokers compared to rapists and murders. Do you not think that is somewhat melodramatic.

    4. Counting excise duty and VAT, smokers in Ireland pay a 400% premium for their healthcare through their accursed habit. Sweden and Finland were forced to cut prices in the early 1990's to tackle smuggling. A tax that is perceived to be unfair and excessive is not a good tax. I am sure you will agree. As well as that, we are not likely to be claiming state pensions for as long, even if we may cost a fortune in the final stages of our lives. We will cost a lot less than someone healthy with Alzheimers or disability. But then, if I proceed to make such dubious comparisons, I am devaluing human life, and thats not my aim here.

    5. I have pointed out the huge increases in excise duty since the start of the Celtic Tiger. I agree with the taxes to a degree, but the retail price is roughly 25% to 30% in excess of comparable economies. It is a regressive tax, which impacts hardest on the poorest in our society.

    6. Has heroin been dealt with and solved? The cocaine scourge? Where in the world has prohibition ever worked. Are you remotely aware that I can easily locate liquor in Riyadh through friends I know in the middle east (for example), and I can just as easily obtain cheap(er) cigarettes. Proof that excessive taxation and prohibition is twatology and nanny statism of the highest order.

    I may as well stay in the developing world while the exchange rate is in my favour, and have a better lifestyle than overpriced Ireland. I can smoke, drink, gamble and get laid to my hearts content. Whats more, I don't have some holier than thou gob****e giving out to me regarding my habit. I don't want to pollute the air of non smokers in bars. I don't want to litter the streets with cigarette butts.

    The unfortunate fact is that this habit will continue, and it will continue to be a scourge. Shall I point out that there are far worse habits.

    We could argue the toss forever on it. The incidence of taking up the habit needs to be reduced but after the smoking ban, there are not many further measures beyond pricing. I suggested other measures, which are fairer to both the smoker and to society as a whole. As for 20 Euro a pack, at this point in time, if implemented, it would only serve to drive tobacco trading into the hands of paramilitaries and gangsters. Even at this point in time, if I choose, I could make a pile of money shuffling between Dublin and Tallinn on Ryanair, and hardly do a real job, while putting the money into a Euro denominated offshore bank account in Estonia or Ukraine, and I would not get caught (I know, I know, famous last words)


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    #165
    coolpaddy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭coolpaddy


    Tri wrote: »
    I smoke and I agree with this increase.

    Hopefully not for much longer btw. I hate the f*ckin things. Nearly finished the Allen Carr book.

    Smokers cost the health service a bomb. We should be paying through the nose for these filthy things. And i'm not sitting on my perch when I say this - my dad has lung cancer. He has cost the health service lots of money for a disease that was avoidable.

    If putting up the price of smokes stops even a few young people from ever starting, then it's worth it.

    Look, lets face it. It's drug addiction. It's unhealthy and disgusting. It kills people - I would not wish my poor dad's ordeal on anyone.

    Tax them to the hilt, I say. I for one can't afford to smoke for much longer. Even if I wanted to.

    I know the money raised is just another stealth tax, but still.


    I agree 100% with you. I'm a smoker too. But, if the govt were actually serious about making us give up they would do what they've previously done with dangerous and poisonous drugs - ban cigarettes altogether. But sure, that'd mean losing out on millions worth of revenue. It'd be well worth it in the long run though.


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    #166
    Jazzy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    giving up smoking is easy. just grow a pair and ya can do it


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    #167
    LEIN
    Moderators Posts: 9,936 ✭✭✭LEIN


    sinlessgunner wrote: »
    I say make them €20 a box. They are the scourge of humanity. Why people want to destroy their bodies for "stress relief" is beyond me. Smokers better hope I never get into government!


    Government cant afford to price themselves out of that market.

    They are making more money on them than they spend on smoking related illness in hospitals.


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    #168
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Jazzy wrote: »
    giving up smoking is easy. just grow a pair and ya can do it
    most new smokers are women


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