The price of Cigarettes.

pretty*monster · 14-10-2008 3:52pm

I have no time for this 'drain on the lealth service' crap. People who don't smoke will also get sick and die at some point.

s_carnage · 14-10-2008 3:55pm

Can you beleive it, there has just been a €2.00 hike on fags!!! €9.50 for a pack now.

kraggy · 14-10-2008 4:02pm

pretty*monster wrote: »

I have no time for this 'drain on the lealth service' crap. People who don't smoke will also get sick and die at some point.

Yes but only after having contributed more to the tax kitty and therefore the health budget due to their lasting more years. On average.

Boskowski · 14-10-2008 4:19pm

kraggy wrote: »

Yes but only after having contributed more to the tax kitty and therefore the health budget due to their lasting more years. On average.

...non-smokers enjoy a longer lasting old-age, a period in their life where they need more care over all sorts of little aches, illnesses u name it. At least smokers die younger and are therefore less of a burden to the health system.

Unless u can put facts (numbers) to your statements my one is as good as yours...

regards

C

kraggy · 14-10-2008 4:46pm

realcam wrote: »

...non-smokers enjoy a longer lasting old-age, a period in their life where they need more care over all sorts of little aches, illnesses u name it. At least smokers die younger and are therefore less of a burden to the health system.

Unless u can put facts (numbers) to your statements my one is as good as yours...

regards

C

"Smokers die younger".

It's on cigarette boxes in black and white.

It's not an opinion, it's fact. Otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to attach such warnings.

Dave! · 14-10-2008 4:50pm

50c increase on pack of 20

ejmaztec · 14-10-2008 4:55pm

Dave! wrote: »

50c increase on pack of 20

Thanks Mr Lenihan - I've just given up and you stick your fiddy cent up yer hole.

Varkov · 14-10-2008 4:58pm

F*ck em. They know full well that even after increasing the price of smokes, the vast majority of people won't quit. If they wanted people to quit, they'd ban the sale of them. But people would still be getting them form the black market and the fatcats wouldn't be getting their tax munnies, so why not keep them legal and just tax the f*ck out of them?

F***ING K***JOCKIES!

Boskowski · 14-10-2008 4:59pm

kraggy wrote: »

"Smokers die younger".

It's on cigarette boxes in black and white.

It's not an opinion, it's fact. Otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to attach such warnings.

...exactly. And that was my point.
Means they wouldn't strain the health budget as much since they have the decency to die young rather than claim for decades.

regards

C

pajodublin · 14-10-2008 5:07pm

realcam - all your posts have mirrored my exact thoughts on this subject
although i am now a former smoker

another bill hicks quote for ya
"Non-smokers, bunch of self righteous mothafckers, i'd give up smoking if I didn't think I'd become one of you"

daveharnett · 14-10-2008 5:09pm

If we are serious about charging based on health costs, fast food outlets are going to need some scales in front of the counter.
A whopper would cost 50c per 10kg (or per 8kg for the ladies).

(Patent pending. Hands off ryanair!)

kraggy · 14-10-2008 5:10pm

realcam wrote: »

...exactly. And that was my point.
Means they wouldn't strain the health budget as much since they have the decency to die young rather than claim for decades.

regards

C

Erm, my point was that smokers are around for a shorter time and so contribute less in taxes.

You should remember the original argument before making your point next time.

pajodublin · 14-10-2008 5:21pm

kraggy wrote: »

Erm, my point was that smokers are around for a shorter time and so contribute less in taxes.

You should remember the original argument before making your point next time.

Thats bull****, you show me the facts that say MOST smokers die before they are Fifty eight.... then they have given their 40years of work and services to taxes

toiletduck · 14-10-2008 5:27pm

daveharnett wrote: »

If we are serious about charging based on health costs, fast food outlets are going to need some scales in front of the counter.
A whopper would cost 50c per 10kg (or per 8kg for the ladies).

(Patent pending. Hands off ryanair!)

Drink would be the number one offender, adding in policing costs and the like.

14-10-2008 5:41pm

Well, all I can say is

"THANK YOU EU EXPANSION FOR BRINGING IN LOVELY CHEAP CIGARETTES"

And if you think I should feel bad about not paying tax, I think I pay enough as it is.

\edit: How much of tthe now €8.05 is tax to the govt does anyone know?

LEIN · 14-10-2008 5:50pm

Feel a weekend to Spain coming on!

pajodublin · 14-10-2008 5:55pm

Papa Smut wrote: »

Well, all I can say is

"THANK YOU EU EXPANSION FOR BRINGING IN LOVELY CHEAP CIGARETTES"

And if you think I should feel bad about not paying tax, I think I pay enough as it is.

\edit: How much of tthe now €8.05 is tax to the govt does anyone know?

i think its 3.60
its 45%

Tillotson · 14-10-2008 6:07pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4840638.stm

"According to the Office for National Statistics the UK Government collected £8.1bn in tobacco taxes in 2002 and spent £1.5bn on smoking-related illnesses."

Can't find the original article.

Imagine the situation is pretty similar here though

Smokers are such an easy target

themont85 · 14-10-2008 6:33pm

Varkov wrote: »

F*ck em. They know full well that even after increasing the price of smokes, the vast majority of people won't quit. If they wanted people to quit, they'd ban the sale of them. But people would still be getting them form the black market and the fatcats wouldn't be getting their tax munnies, so why not keep them legal and just tax the f*ck out of them?

F***ING K***JOCKIES!

It may not force you to quit but maybe it might stop a few younger people starting, thats a positive in my book.

pajodublin · 14-10-2008 6:40pm

themont85 wrote: »

It may not force you to quit but maybe it might stop a few younger people starting, thats a positive in my book.

+1
agree 100%
thats what should matter the most
lets hope kids dont follow our bad examples
whether it be drinkin or smoking

DublinWriter · 14-10-2008 6:44pm

Damo9090 wrote: »

Feel a weekend to Spain coming on!

Or a crash course in black-market conversational Lithuanian.

LEIN · 14-10-2008 7:06pm

GF is just back from the shop and she says there is a queue of people buying sh1t loads of cigs.

They only went up 50c not €50!

LEIN · 14-10-2008 7:10pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

Or a crash course in black-market conversational Lithuanian.

Funny you should say that i have some Lithuanian friends in work.

Wonder if we can get a business plan going.

Wazdakka · 14-10-2008 7:12pm

Damo9090 wrote: »

They only went up 50c not €50!

50C a day.
3.50 a week.
182 yoyo a year extra for your average 20 a day smoker.
Not counting those drunken nights where you seem to fly through them.

Bastards

:mad:

Toe-Rag UTD · 14-10-2008 7:14pm

Tri wrote: »

I smoke and I agree with this increase.

Hopefully not for much longer btw. I hate the f*ckin things. Nearly finished the Allen Carr book.

Smokers cost the health service a bomb. We should be paying through the nose for these filthy things. And i'm not sitting on my perch when I say this - my dad has lung cancer. He has cost the health service lots of money for a disease that was avoidable.

If putting up the price of smokes stops even a few young people from ever starting, then it's worth it.

Look, lets face it. It's drug addiction. It's unhealthy and disgusting. It kills people - I would not wish my poor dad's ordeal on anyone.

Tax them to the hilt, I say. I for one can't afford to smoke for much longer. Even if I wanted to.

I know the money raised is just another stealth tax, but still.

I believe that if all smokers stopped smoking tomorrow that the health system would cease to exist as the loss in tax revenue to collapse the system.

So on one hand, yes smokers clog up the system, but on the other hand smokers also fund the health system.

Prof.Badass · 14-10-2008 7:27pm

I'm seriously thinking of taking up smoking just to spite those motherfcukers.

obviously, i won't buy legal.:pac:

but really, how can i not, they're making it look so cool!

BurnsCarpenter · 14-10-2008 7:27pm

It's nonsense that smokers are a drain on the health system.
Everybody will need health care for a serious illness sooner or later. We just get there sooner, thereby cutting out additional pension payments.

Also, when a smoker dies of cancer or heart disease, ASH and their cronies will assume that the ciggies caused it, twisting the stats for their own (fiendish) ends.

rubadub · 14-10-2008 8:08pm

Red Alert wrote: »

I hate it when the smokers expect the rest of us to condemn price rises for a product we don't buy and therefore don't care about.

Yep, especially ones who bang on about their god given right to be a drug addict and how they should be allowed abuse those drugs where-ever they want. But then do not give a flying fuk about the millions of others whose drug of choice is illegal.

Be thankful your drug of choice is still legal, and so cheap and easy to get too.

And if you honestly think dying young is great for the economy then surely you would want other drugs legal for the same reason, and sure hey, why not scrap any laws regarding health & safety, kill everyone younger and it will be a better place all round.

pretty*monster · 14-10-2008 8:10pm

kraggy wrote: »

"Smokers die younger".

It's on cigarette boxes in black and white.

It's not an opinion, it's fact. Otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to attach such warnings.

Dying younger doesn't mean that their death costs the health service more than the death of a non-smoker and then the government saves on their pension. Happy days all round.

kraggy wrote: »

Erm, my point was that smokers are around for a shorter time and so contribute less in taxes.

Their lives aren't cut by all that much, most smokers die when their pensioners, younger than they're non-smoking peers, true, but do you think that the taxes they would have paid had they survived have outweighed the cost of them drawing a pension?

Tar.Aldarion · 14-10-2008 8:50pm

Yay it went up. Yay! Yay! Yay!

Tellox · 14-10-2008 9:04pm

I'm a smoker, and I think this is a good deterrant to stop kids from smoking. However, the excuse often given is that the government want everyone to stop smoking - this couldnt be further from the truth.

If every smoker in Ireland collectively gave up, the amount of money that would be lost to the government would be massive. Right now a smoker is +€50~ a week in tax. And please, please don't make the healthcare argument - €2600 a year for 10-20 years will more than pay for smokers on medical cards (not that I'm entitled to one).

If we really wanted a non-smoking Ireland, we wouldn't slowly increase prices over the course of a couple of years - it's been about a €2.50 increase over the past five years or so. If cigarettes were still around €5.50 a pack and today smokers were suddenly landed with a €2.50 increase, you'd look at a massive amount of smokers quitting.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-10-2008 9:09pm

Tellox wrote: »

I'm a smoker, and I think this is a good deterrant to stop kids from smoking. However, the excuse often given is that the government want everyone to stop smoking - this couldnt be further from the truth.

If every smoker in Ireland collectively gave up, the amount of money that would be lost to the government would be massive. Right now a smoker is +€50~ a week in tax. And please, please don't make the healthcare argument - €2600 a year for 10-20 years will more than pay for smokers on medical cards (not that I'm entitled to one).

If we really wanted a non-smoking Ireland, we wouldn't slowly increase prices over the course of a couple of years - it's been about a €2.50 increase over the past five years or so. If cigarettes were still around €5.50 a pack and today smokers were suddenly landed with a €2.50 increase, you'd look at a massive amount of smokers quitting.

If the government wanted to stop kids smoking, they'd have done it by now; by enforceing the laws already in existance with the same vigour they enforce other anti-drug laws.

And they don't want to stop smoking because- at the risk of sounding like run-f-t-hills - it's be a financial nightmare for them.

mr.fancypants · 14-10-2008 11:01pm

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Tax the **** out of them tbh, and put all the revenue into the health service. It's a disgusting habit, which acts as an enormous drain on the health service, and smokers should have to cover that.

Bite me, I'm a self-righteous non-smoker.

:eek::eek::eek:
bill hicks would have a field day with you:P:p

sdanseo · 14-10-2008 11:35pm

Keep taxing the things until its €20, €30 or perhaps even illegal to get your hands on a pack of cigarettes. They should never, ever have been legal. They are a drug addiction and one that has probably killed more people than all the 'bad' or 'hard' drugs out there.

And no, I don't smoke, but I live with people who do.

Ross_Mahon · 14-10-2008 11:39pm

Up the price!

themont85 · 14-10-2008 11:44pm

sdonn_1 wrote: »

Keep taxing the things until its €20, €30 or perhaps even illegal to get your hands on a pack of cigarettes. They should never, ever have been legal. They are a drug addiction and one that has probably killed more people than all the 'bad' or 'hard' drugs out there.

And no, I don't smoke, but I live with people who do.

Well to be fair they weren't all that in the know about the risks of cigarettes or their addictiveness when they first came out and it wouldn't have been hard to outlaw them when they found out because they so many people were addicted to them. I liked the idea that another person had on another thread a while back, to make them illegal to people born after a certain date. Most would say that it wouldn't work but i thought it was an interesting idea.

Wurly · 14-10-2008 11:59pm

Toe-Rag UTD wrote: »

I believe that if all smokers stopped smoking tomorrow that the health system would cease to exist as the loss in tax revenue to collapse the system.

So on one hand, yes smokers clog up the system, but on the other hand smokers also fund the health system.

Well in that case i'm so glad that my father continued to smoke and as a result, killed himself. Still, at least he paid for the health service....
:mad:

Btw - that's not a personal comment towards you... But the irony of the statement struck me. Obviously, this is a 'delicate' matter for me so forgive me if the above comes across as harsh.

pajodublin · 15-10-2008 12:06am

sdonn_1 wrote: »

Keep taxing the things until its €20, €30 or perhaps even illegal to get your hands on a pack of cigarettes. They should never, ever have been legal. They are a drug addiction and one that has probably killed more people than all the 'bad' or 'hard' drugs out there.

And no, I don't smoke, but I live with people who do.

Hmm its funny you point out that
Lets put the price of a pint up to 20 or maybe 30 euro or how about banning it altogether. THAT IS A DRUG ADDICTION TOO
Or even better, lets stop selling or prescribing pain killers because THEY ARE ADDICTIVE TOO.

I dont usually drink but i live with people that do
I dont like taking pain killers until its a last resort but i live with people that do

YOUR ARGUMENT IS NULL AND VOID

PS: I dont smoke

oztots · 15-10-2008 12:26am

How about we all just use the cheaper illegal drugs?

Or cut the price of condoms? At least then if you give up something you have something to look forward to.

If the gov wanted people to give up why wouldnt they start handing allen carr out, or start up clinics? The way it is now they're just laughing thinking "we can keep squeezing more money out of these people and pass it off as being good for them"

inforfun · 15-10-2008 12:46am

So far this year i think i have bought 10 packs of cigarettes in Ireland.
But i do smoke a pack a day.
I do not make trips especially to buy cigarettes abroad but when i am abroad i make sure i bring back enough to cover me till the next trip.
Ok... so i have a few nervous moments coming back from the Canary Islands with half my suitcase full of cigarettes.
It saves me at least €500 a trip. My holidays paid by avoiding paying €8 here.
I hope the minister of finance will do great things with the tax he took from my 10 packs this year.

sdanseo · 17-10-2008 2:29am

pajodublin wrote: »

Hmm its funny you point out that
Lets put the price of a pint up to 20 or maybe 30 euro or how about banning it altogether. THAT IS A DRUG ADDICTION TOO
Or even better, lets stop selling or prescribing pain killers because THEY ARE ADDICTIVE TOO.

I dont usually drink but i live with people that do
I dont like taking pain killers until its a last resort but i live with people that do

YOUR ARGUMENT IS NULL AND VOID

PS: I dont smoke

Oh come on. Very few people are properly addicted to alcohol - I understand people see it as an integral part of a night out but alcohol is purely the means to an end that is being hammered. Occasional over-indulgence of alcohol is acceptable and probably does very little harm.

Smokers are different - they chronically abuse cigarettes over 30-40 years in most cases. Every day is the same, unlike alcohol where you might get off your head one day out of seven and once you get older and more responsible, you'll drink substantially less - again this cannot be said for cigarettes.

Either way, and slightly OT, my personal opinion would be sliding towards a similar attitude being taken towards alcohol in this country until such a time as people can drink responsibly. That said, the health effects really arent anywhere near as bad or as proven as those linked to smoking.

As for painkillers - if you're addicted to these the tax would be the last of your worries. It's hardly comparable to either of the above. Your argument, despite you opinion of mine, makes absolutely no sense. Nice try, but think a bit more before hitting submit next time.

Prof.Badass · 17-10-2008 12:45pm

sdonn_1 wrote: »

Oh come on. Very few people are properly addicted to alcohol - I understand people see it as an integral part of a night out but alcohol is purely the means to an end that is being hammered. Occasional over-indulgence of alcohol is acceptable and probably does very little harm.

Smokers are different - they chronically abuse cigarettes over 30-40 years in most cases. Every day is the same, unlike alcohol where you might get off your head one day out of seven and once you get older and more responsible, you'll drink substantially less.

As for painkillers - if you're addicted to these the tax would be the last of your worries. It's hardly comparable to either of the above. Your argument, despite you opinion of mine, makes absolutely no sense. Nice try, but think a bit more before hitting submit next time.

Actually it's later on in life when people tend to acquire problems with alcohol (think of the middle class woman (sorry to be sexist) in her 30s who drinks wine on her own every day to unwind after work.If you do this you have a problem.

How are painkillers different from alcohol/tobacco???

tbh, i would rather be addicted to prescription painkillers than either alcohol (because i'd still be able to function at a semi-reasonable level) or tobacco (because it wouldn't be as damaging for my health).

that being said, i'd rather be addicted pure nicotine products than all three.

alcohol is definately worse than tobacco when you consider all factors (social impact ect). It's pretty much accepted as fact.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/167/432675368_9b1dd6e250_o.png

sdanseo · 17-10-2008 10:55pm

I'm talking numbers of people as well though. Serious alchol addiction is worse than nicotine addiction, but affects far fewer people I would have thought.

Capt'n Midnight · 18-10-2008 11:57am

Damo9090 wrote: »

GF is just back from the shop and she says there is a queue of people buying sh1t loads of cigs.

They only went up 50c not €50!

What about the stories about people qeueuing for ages to save 8c a litre on petrol ?
Cost / benefit analysis would suggest it paid less than the mimimum wage per hour before you take the cost of driving to the garage and leaving the engine running.

And it's not as if eveyone didn't know the old reliables were going up.
Apart form beer which hasn't had an increase in ages.

animaal · 18-10-2008 1:44pm

I, for one, am glad that cigs and wine had tax increases. I just wish beer etc had been hit instead of the essentials that were.

I think it's fairer to tax optional, recreational purchases, rather than essentials. I'm free to reduce my wine consumption if the added expense is too much.

One day a couple of years ago, I rushed a small child to A&E because I was worried following a bad fall on her head. As it turned out, there was no serious injury. What happens if somebody on low pay is in that situation? Not everybody can afford 100 euros "just in case".

If you have a problem with tax increases on optional purchases, you have two choices. Either purchase less, or refuse to vote for a government that wasted the boom and chose to implement tax measures you don't like. But of course most of the people bïtching here will do neither.

P.S. I don't smoke, but I do drink.

Tipsy Mac · 18-10-2008 2:02pm

In July we were the most expensive country in the EU for them, we are now well above it, here's a table for anyone thinking of engaging in Tobacco Tourism

http://www.the-tma.org.uk/page.aspx?page_id=35

Nick_oliveri · 18-10-2008 2:05pm

I think its bull tbh, either make them illegal or stop raking in money off the junkie fools (like me) who buy them. Addiction=profit.

Is sex an addiction? I think it is.... 1 euro for a condom?

Mark200 · 18-10-2008 2:08pm

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

In July we were the most expensive country in the EU for them, we are now well above it, here's a table for anyone thinking of engaging in Tobacco Tourism

http://www.the-tma.org.uk/page.aspx?page_id=35

Interesting table. Latvian cigarettes would be 11cent a packet if there was no tax

And even still, they're only €1.20

Oh well, Ireland's tax on cigarettes and alcohol is the way it should be anyway. I don't smoke, but I do drink and I'd support an increase on alcohol such as beer....everything for teens depends on the cost, and it's the only way to stop them abusing alcohol and getting into smoking.

Saying that.....the unfortunate thing is that pubs and clubs (especially) rip us off. But the price of alcohol there has nothing to do with Government tax, but they'd still put up the prices if the tax was increased.

Prof.Badass · 18-10-2008 2:19pm

sdonn_1 wrote: »

I'm talking numbers of people as well though. Serious alchol addiction is worse than nicotine addiction, but affects far fewer people I would have thought.

yeah, but alcohol has a huge negative social impact on others, whereas tobacco doesn't really.

Capt'n Midnight · 18-10-2008 9:31pm

Mark200 wrote: »

Interesting table. Latvian cigarettes would be 11cent a packet if there was no tax And even still, they're only €1.20

the glossy packet probably costs more to make than the cigarettes
the newsagents are making a profit on the gross price not the price ex vat

The price of Cigarettes.

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