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Which way will you vote (if at all)

  • 09-06-2008 5:46pm
    #1
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    This is just for my curiousity and general interest. Please be honest if you are or arent going to vote....


    DeV.

    How will you voteon the Lisbon Treaty? 1724 votes

    No
    0% 0 votes
    Yes
    45% 792 votes
    No but I'm not going to vote.
    38% 668 votes
    Yes but I'm not going to vote.
    8% 141 votes
    Undecided at the moment.
    7% 123 votes


«134567…13

Comments

  • #2
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    For what it's worth there is a poll in AH.

    See my sig


  • #3
    sink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    I'm a definite yes and I am certain to vote. I've been following politics at the EU for quite some time and I find it far more interesting than the partisan politics of the Dail. I read the treaty when it was first published and while I didn't understand it all straight away through reading interpretations of it I believe I have a firm grasp of the issues. I despair at how both sides of the campaign have been run and I hope that people will vote on the treaty and not on baseless facts and scaremongering (from either side).


  • #4
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Ok, but your poll is flawed and your link is biased, not to mention that your sig doesnt quite have the reach of a site wide announcement :)

    DeV.


  • #5
    Sugarplum_fairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭Sugarplum_fairy


    sink wrote: »
    I despair at how both sides of the campaign have been run and I hope that people will vote on the treaty and not on baseless facts and scaremongering (from either side).
    i agree completely, if the yes side manage to loose this they'll have only themselves to blame because they've failed miserably to explain why the no side are (in general now) liars


  • #6
    PrivateEye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭PrivateEye


    No

    *The thing is so open to interpretation in areas its unbelievable.

    *Ask Fine Gael just how we're going to stay "at the heart of Europe" by

    a)losing a commisionare for 5 years at a time
    b)halving our voting weight

    *Why increase our military spending? It won't affect our neutrality, but it seemsa mega-waste of resources.

    *Nations "obliged" to assist each other in the event of terrorist attacks for example. What exactly qualifies as a terrorist attack, or an obligation?

    *IBEC think the Treaty is (see their submission to the N.C.O.E) a good thing because it presents oppurtunities with regards the 'liberalisation' of services, among which they include Health....liberalisation?

    *450 million people without a vote...thats not democracy. France and Holland voted no to the bast majority of this document.


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  • #7
    Agent Smith
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 21,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Agent Smith


    i voted yes becuase i believe in europe.


  • #8
    NextSteps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 984 ✭✭✭NextSteps


    PrivateEye wrote: »
    No

    *The thing is so open to interpretation in areas its unbelievable.

    *Ask Fine Gael just how we're going to stay "at the heart of Europe" by

    a)losing a commisionare for 5 years at a time
    b)halving our voting weight
    .
    How can we keep our influence in Europe by losing all the good will amassed over the last 35 years?
    *450 million people without a vote...thats not democracy. France and Holland voted no to the bast majority of this document.
    Democratically electing delegates to make decisions on your behalf... that's democracy.


  • #9
    sink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    prawn wrote: »
    I might be wrong but I dont think the Lisbon Treaty will effect the number of commissioners, as it was already due to decrease according to the nice treaty. The nice treaty which Ireland already ratified stated that once the EU reached 27 the number of commissionsers would be reduced.. Then again I could be wrong, please correct me if I am but I have a feeling about this..

    You are entirely correct.


  • #10
    Agent Smith
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 21,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Agent Smith


    prawn, your right.

    We do lose our commissioner by 2014 (at the latest) even if the treaty falls


  • #11
    prawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭prawn


    PrivateEye wrote: »
    No

    a)losing a commisionare for 5 years at a time

    I might be wrong but I dont think the Lisbon Treaty will effect the number of commissioners, as it was already due to decrease according to the nice treaty. The nice treaty which Ireland already ratified stated that once the EU reached 27 the number of commissionsers would be reduced.. Then again I could be wrong, please correct me if I am but I have a feeling about this..


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  • #12
    PrivateEye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭PrivateEye


    UB wrote: »
    How can we keep our influence in Europe by losing all the good will amassed over the last 35 years?

    Democratically electing delegates to make decisions on your behalf... that's democracy.


    Seeing as there was a strong political movement in Britain seeking a referendum, and Sarkozy himself has admitted a referendum would fail in France and other states, it seems unfair 450 million people have no say on this treaty.

    As for democratically electing people
    *the majority of Labour voters are voting No
    *the majority of FG voters are voting No

    so who you think should govern your state doesn't seem to come into it.

    As for the 'goodwill', I think we'd be the toast of Europe if we vote No. As in the people of Europe.

    People, please remember- France was not banished from Europe when it voted No, we will not be either. Our place in Europe is safe, but why weaken it?

    Vótáil Níl (and no, I'm not a Shinner...house is traditionally FF)


  • #13
    Daftendirekt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Daftendirekt


    I'll be voting Yes. This will be the first referendum I've been able to vote in, and so I had to do some reading to get me up to speed on EU politics. Originally, I was leaning towards a no vote, but after discovering that most of the arguments against the treaty don't actually have any basis in reality, I changed my mind.

    I think I have a fairly solid grasp of most of the main points of the Treaty, and now consider it a necessary step in bringing Europe into the 21st century. I don't think it'll completely revolutionize the workings of the EU, but will pave the way for further progress and improvement. Europe needs to keep moving forward, and I'd like to see Ireland moving forward with it.


  • #14
    Gu3rr1lla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭Gu3rr1lla


    "Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly"
    "All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way."

    -Valery Giscard d'Estaing, author of the original Lisbon Constitution

    One of the reasons im voting no!


  • #15
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,348 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    I'd vote yes, but won't get the chance to because of work and other comittments.


  • #16
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    Gu3rr1lla wrote: »
    One of the reasons im voting no!
    And as good a reason as any!

    Firm no from me, looking forward to getting it over and done with now. If it goes through I'll be looking forward to moving to a country outside Europe.


  • #17
    JodJunior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭JodJunior


    PEOPLE DIED FOR YOUR FREEDOM - like paddy parse and james connoly if ye vote yes that rising of 1916 was nothing - VOTE NO


  • #18
    Agent Smith
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 21,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Agent Smith


    JodJunior wrote: »
    PEOPLE DIED FOR YOUR FREEDOM - like paddy parse and james connoly if ye vote yes that rising of 1916 was nothing - VOTE NO

    :)


  • #19
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    PrivateEye wrote: »
    *Ask Fine Gael just how we're going to stay "at the heart of Europe" by

    a)losing a commisionare for 5 years at a time
    b)halving our voting weight

    a) Everyone else does too.
    b) Over-simplified. Ability to push wanted legislation is reduced by less than 10%. Ability to block is increased.
    PrivateEye wrote: »
    *450 million people without a vote...thats not democracy. France and Holland voted no to the bast majority of this document.

    When did this happen? France passed the treaty with a huge majority, Holland by 3 to 1 majority. If you're talking about Libertas's "95% of the Lisbon Treaty was rejected in the form of the constitution..." spiel, how come when they changed just 5% of the text it got accepted by huge majority?

    Voting yes.


  • #20
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    JodJunior wrote: »
    PEOPLE DIED FOR YOUR FREEDOM - like paddy parse and james connoly if ye vote yes that rising of 1916 was nothing - VOTE NO

    Maybe if they could vote, one side or the other could claim them. Since they can't on account of being very dead, I guess it might be a stretch to assume they're in the No camp.

    Similarly, the See No Evil chimpanzees can't really weigh in for the No camp on account of being non-human primates.


  • #21
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Im gonna vote no to annoy Agent Smith :p

    Nah, I havent really decided what ill do just yet. Very much undecided, and dont know if I can even bring myself to vote.


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  • #22
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Rb wrote: »
    And as good a reason as any!

    Firm no from me, looking forward to getting it over and done with now. If it goes through I'll be looking forward to moving to a country outside Europe.

    Just like the 50% of American's who said they'd head for Canada if Bush got back in?


  • #23
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    I'd vote yes, but won't get the chance to because of work and other comittments.
    Come on mate, you see how close this race is...
    We need all the Yes'es we can get, do you want these dam No-Men to win ? :eek:


  • #24
    Gu3rr1lla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭Gu3rr1lla


    Rb wrote: »
    And as good a reason as any!

    Firm no from me, looking forward to getting it over and done with now. If it goes through I'll be looking forward to moving to a country outside Europe.

    Yeah Norway looks like a nice place! They're not in the EU so they own all their own resources, can manage their own economy, and decide their own laws! Plus they get all the advantages of trading within Europe! :p


  • #25
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Gu3rr1lla wrote: »
    One of the reasons im voting no!

    There are many valid reasons to vote against the treaty. A quote suggesting that we might be mislead into voting Yes is not one of them. What sort of vast powerful conspiracy of lies announces itself in a national newspaper? We're all still capable of critical reading. The responsibility is on each of us to understand what we are voting for. To hold that quote up seems a little too easy to me.


  • #26
    sink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    Gu3rr1lla wrote: »
    Yeah Norway looks like a nice place! They're not in the EU so they own all their own resources, can manage their own economy, and decide their own laws! Plus they get all the advantages of trading within Europe! :p

    The irony here is that we in part decide on Norway's laws and they do not. The have to adopt all laws regarding the single market and yet have no say in formulating them, we do!


  • #27
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Gu3rr1lla wrote: »
    Yeah Norway looks like a nice place! They're not in the EU so they own all their own resources, can manage their own economy, and decide their own laws! Plus they get all the advantages of trading within Europe! :p

    They will be one with the Union soon. They will all be one with the Union.


  • #28
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    I'm voting Yes. The No camp is full of lies, myths, misinterpretations etc. Only 2 or 3 weeks ago I was fairly sure I was gong to vote no, until I bothered my barney looking into the thing. I now realise that the Treaty is a good thing for Ireland, the rest of Europe and likely the world too.

    PrivateEye:
    "losing a commisionare for 5 years at a time"
    Two points on this one. First the commissoner doesn't represent Ireland, (s)he rePresents the EU. Second it will happen earlier if we don't ratify the Treaty anyway.

    "halving our voting weight"
    Plain and simply, this isn't happening. Our voting weight remains largely unchanged (any decrease is marginal at best). And more importantly we're retaining the veto or getting opt out options over the important areas anyway.

    "Why increase our military spending? It won't affect our neutrality, but it seemsa mega-waste of resources."
    Technically speaking we've never been truly nuetral. And the increased spending on defense budgets is for everyone. If any of the EU states is ever attacked they can rely on the backing of the other members. This includes us, however due to our geography its less relevant. To my mind the way to look at it is that we are either part of this community or we are not. We have to live up to our responsibilities if we're to get the benefits, and to shy away from that or refuse it is childish and selfish.

    "450 million people without a vote"
    They did vote. Their vote was for their Government. Part of the Government mandates were the negotiation and ratification of international treaties. Everything is above board and totally legit with this.


  • #29
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    JodJunior wrote: »
    PEOPLE DIED FOR YOUR FREEDOM - like paddy parse and james connoly if ye vote yes that rising of 1916 was nothing - VOTE NO

    Yes because this country is going to be taken over by a load of Europeans and the state of Ireland will no longer exist, eh Jnr!? :rolleyes:


  • #30
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Yes because this country is going to be taken over by a load of Europeans and the state of Ireland will no longer exist, eh Jnr!? :rolleyes:

    Ah, pay him no mind. Tiny post count, hysteric rhetoric and crazy spelling = wum?


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  • #31
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    molloyjh wrote: »
    PrivateEye:
    "losing a commisionare for 5 years at a time"
    Two points on this one. First the commissoner doesn't represent Ireland, (s)he rePresents the EU. Second it will happen earlier if we don't ratify the Treaty anyway.

    Plus they're an executive so don't have much by way of actual decision-making power... Ideas and implementation of ideas, once the council and parliament say it's ok.


  • #32
    PrivateEye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭PrivateEye


    I've friends voting Yes and No for silly reasons.

    The Yes-Men (who i've taking to calling treatyites :pac: )

    *Sinn Fein want a no vote
    *Gay Byrne is a moany old bollocks
    *Europe is deadly.

    Some odd Nos

    *Dustin! they robbed Dustin! The bastards.
    *Abortion (I'm pro-choice, so this bugs me no end...)
    ***** the government etc.
    *Wasted my tax money on posters.....


    It'll come down to the wire, but I see it going to Yes sadly.

    I hope the No vote prevails.
    Maybe Eamon Ryan and john Gormley will stop playing Greena Fail and remember how they voted on nice when they step into the polling station :rolleyes:


  • #33
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Just to lay down a marker here, as people will be attracted by a sitewide announcement:

    This is a subforum of Politics, and Politics rules apply.

    If you're not sure what those rules are, go find out before posting.

    A supplemental rule that we're applying to Lisbon discussions is: no soapboxing. Any further comments along the lines of this post will be met with severe disapproval.


  • #34
    minidazzler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    I am voting YES. Basically because while I may not fully understand the Treaty, I absolutely hate Scare Tactics so with Sinn Fein(well in honestly the should call them selves Me Fein) Saying No with scare tactics. I am voting Yes.


  • #35
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    AtomicHorror wrote: »
    Just like the 50% of American's who said they'd head for Canada if Bush got back in?
    Meh.

    This whole debacle has caused me to lose the majority of my trust in the EU. Threats left, right and centre and not just from nobodies, from French and German politicians, from our own politicians...even the EU president!


  • #36
    NextSteps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 984 ✭✭✭NextSteps


    JodJunior wrote: »
    PEOPLE DIED FOR YOUR FREEDOM - like paddy parse and james connoly if ye vote yes that rising of 1916 was nothing - VOTE NO

    Never heard of him.


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  • #37
    nag
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭nag


    AtomicHorror wrote: »
    PrivateEye wrote: »
    *450 million people without a vote...thats not democracy. France and Holland voted no to the bast majority of this document.
    When did this happen? France passed the treaty with a huge majority, Holland by 3 to 1 majority. If you're talking about Libertas's "95% of the Lisbon Treaty was rejected in the form of the constitution..." spiel, how come when they changed just 5% of the text it got accepted by huge majority?

    The reason it was passed was because when they revamped the EU Constitution into the Lisbon Treaty, they didn't put it to a second referendum. Instead, their parliament ratified it, bi-passing the people. How on earth can you call that democracy?


    (As posted above...) Correct me if I'm wrong but this is taken from the comments on the Lisbon Treaty:
    "Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly"
    "All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way."

    -Valery Giscard d'Estaing, author of the original Lisbon Constitution
    Why does this not ring alarm bells with the yes voters? It's blatant deceit.

    At any rate, it won't matter a damn what the outcome of the vote is because the EU Parliament already rejected an amendment which stated that the EU would respect the outcome of the Irish vote, implying that the Lisbon Treaty is going through no matter what.



    @minidazzler: I can't see how you would condemn one side of the debate when both sides are just as bad as each other. Regardless of who might be right or wrong, when there's a yes/no vote on something, the yes side is always going to try and paint a rosey picture of the future to try and (edit: ) get you to vote yes, while the no side will always try prey on your fears and doubt to get you to vote no. It's inevitable.
    (I know that's a generalisation and probably not fitting for every debate but it sure does for this one)
    If I were you, instead of blindly voting yes just on how one side has run their campaign, read up on the treaty and make a well informed, educated decision.


  • #38
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    nag wrote: »
    Why does this not ring alarm bells with the yes voters?
    Because it's a single quote taken out of context from an English translation of a French source.
    At any rate, it won't matter a damn what the outcome of the vote is because the EU Parliament already rejected an amendment which stated that the EU would respect the outcome of the Irish vote, implying that the Lisbon Treaty is going through no matter what.
    And round and round and round and round we go, with the same old tired crap.

    This has been addressed approximately four hundred million times already on this forum alone.
    Regardless of who might be right or wrong, when there's a yes/no vote on something, the yes side is always going to try and paint a rosey picture of the future to try and fool you into voting yes, while the no side will always try prey on your fears and doubt to get you to vote no.
    Nicely balanced.
    If I were you, instead of blindly voting yes just on how one side has run their campaign, read up on the treaty and make a well informed, educated decision.
    I strongly recommend you take your own advice.


  • #39
    Malice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Malice


    I'm voting No basically as a Fuck You to the government. I thought they would have learnt after the first Nice treaty that you can't just basically say to the general public "Vote Yes Because We Tell You To". If questioned it essentially amounts to "It's Good For You To Vote Yes".

    The thing is though, I imagine that it will go through one way or another irrespective of how Ireland votes on it.


  • #40
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    molloyjh wrote: »

    "450 million people without a vote"
    They did vote. Their vote was for their Government. Part of the Government mandates were the negotiation and ratification of international treaties. Everything is above board and totally legit with this.

    Rubbish!

    I voted for FF but I'm still voting No! Sure all the main parties are pushing for a yes vote, so if I'm serious about who I'd rather in government, I have to be realistic and vote for a main party somewhere on the list. On a couple of occasions I wanted to send a clear message and voted for an alternative and then FF.

    Now in other countries - Germany had a recent change of government but is still pushing for EU Reform - the same could be said for Spain after its change of government in 2004. It doesn't seem to make a damn difference what governments get in - when it comes to EU matters, they all seem to do basically the same thing. Remember, FG and Lab in government would do exactly as FF are doing now!

    Regards!


  • #41
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,698 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    If I were you, instead of blindly voting yes just on how one side has run their campaign, read up on the treaty and make a well informed, educated decision.

    What campaign? The government and yes side campaign has been a f*cking disaster of laziness and idiocy.

    But I am still voting yes.

    because I read up on the treaty. 2 weeks ago I was going to vote no, I had the leaflets, I had all the points that have come through here again and again, and I sat down and read them, and double checked them with the treaty and other sources. And I changed my position.

    that sort of backfired on you didnt it?

    I'm voting No basically as a **** You to the government. I thought they would have learnt after the first Nice treaty that you can't just basically say to the general public "Vote Yes Because We Tell You To". If questioned it essentially amounts to "It's Good For You To Vote Yes".

    anyway I can pursade you to save that for the next election or referndum that actually affects our government?


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  • #42
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    minidazzler wrote: »
    I am voting YES. Basically because while I may not fully understand the Treaty, I absolutely hate Scare Tactics so with Sinn Fein(well in honestly the should call them selves Me Fein) Saying No with scare tactics. I am voting Yes.

    What makes you think that the other side isn't scare mongering???

    Regards!


  • #43
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    BlitzKrieg wrote: »
    What campaign? The government and yes side campaign has been a f*cking disaster of laziness and idiocy.

    But I am still voting yes.

    because I read up on the treaty. 2 weeks ago I was going to vote no, I had the leaflets, I had all the points that have come through here again and again, and I sat down and read them, and double checked them with the treaty and other sources. And I changed my position.

    that sort of backfired on you didnt it?




    anyway I can pursade you to save that for the next election or referndum that actually affects our government?

    Maybe you should read up: www.euinfo.ie and click the Q&A section in the left column!

    Regards!


  • #44
    Jabcity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭Jabcity


    Definate No!! Being a part of the "united states of europe" as theyr callin it now is just showin how much we're lettin our cultural identity slip. We already lost our language to the point of near non-existence, the capital is a-wash with multiculturalism its a genuine shock when more than 10 people on the bus speak english! People are probably going to call me narrow minded or racist, but thats what I believe it comes down to, being our own culture and having control on our own country. Its "republic of Ireland" after all, not "Republic of Ireland and Europe"!


  • #45
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    Jabcity wrote: »
    Definate No!! Being a part of the "united states of europe" as theyr callin it now is just showin how much we're lettin our cultural identity slip. We already lost our language to the point of near non-existence, the capital is a-wash with multiculturalism its a genuine shock when more than 10 people on the bus speak english! People are probably going to call me narrow minded or racist, but thats what I believe it comes down to, being our own culture and having control on our own country. Its "republic of Ireland" after all, not "Republic of Ireland and Europe"!

    I'm voting NO myself, but I find your viewpoints rather small minded! The reason I'm voting no is that I want a more democratic, transparent and accountable Europe! No more meetings (European Council for example) behind closed doors!

    Regards!


  • #46
    sink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    Irish and Proud wrote: »
    Maybe you should read up: www.euinfo.ie and click the Q&A section in the left column!

    Regards!

    Ha! I just had a look out of curiosity and on the first question they got the European Court of Human Rights which is part of the Council of Europe and is completely separate from the EU mixed up with the European Court of Justice which is part of the EU. We have been a member of the ECHR for many year in fact it was that court that turned over the statutory rape clause in our constitution last year. Some source that is, full of rubbish.


  • #47
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,698 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    dont read its section on abortion. its laughable


  • #48
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    UB wrote: »
    Never heard of him.

    OK! Pádraig Pearse!

    Are you happy now??? :mad:

    Regards!


  • #49
    muincav
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 810 ✭✭✭muincav


    Im voting a definite NO!
    one reason for me voting NO is, that I have the FREEDOM to vote no, and I dont have to be told by all the political crooks in this country how I should vote.
    If you all remember they have told us how to vote before (Nice treaty) and when we didnt comply to our allmighty rulers wishes, we had to do it all again...me thinks,,,,Mugabe and Zimbabwe..or am I the only one?


  • #50
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    sink wrote: »
    Ha! I just had a look out of curiosity and on the first question they got the European Court of Human Rights which is part of the Council of Europe and is completely separate from the EU mixed up with the European Court of Justice which is part of the EU. We have been a member of the ECHR for many year in fact it was that court that turned over the statutory rape clause in our constitution last year. Some source that is, full of rubbish.

    Now, did I say the site was perfect?

    Maybe, you should read the rest of it with a slightly less slanted mind and then make an proper judgement!

    Regards!


  • #51
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    muincav wrote: »
    Im voting a definite NO!
    one reason for me voting NO is, that I have the FREEDOM to vote no, and I dont have to be told by all the political crooks in this country how I should vote.
    If you all remember they have told us how to vote before (Nice treaty) and when we didnt comply to our allmighty rulers wishes, we had to do it all again...me thinks,,,,Mugabe and Zimbabwe..or am I the only one?

    Well there's certainly a tint of dictatorship concerning EU politicians IMO!

    One reason why I'm voting NO!

    Regards!


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