Aer Lingus website mistake

Dougiehowlett · 17-04-2008 11:01am

MixedMuts wrote: »

I still think that under contract law that the transaction cannot be recinded without mutual agreement. This was not an Invitation to Treat (whereby if the price displayed is incorrect this can be corrected as there is no acceptance involved). As I understand it there was offer by Aer Lingus that was accepted by those 100 people. The acceptance of the fare offer was (I'm sure) made in good faith by most people and when the individuals supllied their CC details and hit the submit button (receiving confirmation) this then gave rise to a binding contract.

I thought it was genuine - they were advertising a sale.

And yes, there was offer and acceptance of a contract.

What they are doing is illegal, plain and simple. They are getting very poor publicity from this, and I wont treat them as airline of choice any more if they continue to act ultra vires.

macshaned · 17-04-2008 11:20am

Bailee Scarce Treeless wrote: »

When I got their monthly email I checked the site and noticed the €5 flights,

So, not only was it a computer glitch to charge you €5 for a flight, but the advertising, put together by humans, was wrong also? And the third mistake of providing business class flights instead of economy?

For anyone impacted by this, go straight to the Small Claims Court online site and lodge a claim against Aer Lingus. The National Consumer Agency won't go up against their fellow government organisation Aer Lingus, and the Consumer Association can only provide advice.

The Small Claims Court will handle claims for up to €2000 (and therefore well within the scope of this issue) and a claim will only cost €9 or something. Well worth the money, and Aer Lingus will be forced to respond.

I'm not fully sure about the rights and the wrongs legally, but the SCC will be the one sure way of finding out, and at minimum cost. Everyone involved should do this.

bren2002 · 17-04-2008 11:30am

Dougiehowlett wrote: »

Poor analogy, as 20 euro is 20 euro, and flight prices constantly change.

Actually it's not a poor analogy, €20 is not €20 when you think it's €50. You pay for €20 from the bank machine (ie it comes from your account), but the machine gives you a €50. Initially you think, great I'm getting something that's worth €50 for €20. But when the mistake is noticed and corrected you are billed for the €50. Does matter what you spent that €50 on, it still costs you €50 not €20.

bren2002 · 17-04-2008 11:35am

Buy a share in Aer Lingus and send in a shareholders question or go to the next AGM!!

Although I don't think it's possible to buy 1 share, but if the 100 or so people involved all bought one then you could table a question directly to Mannion! Probably won't get you anywhere but it will cause them hassle and expense in dealing with you.

Dougiehowlett · 17-04-2008 11:40am

Dougiehowlett wrote: »

Its like buying toothpaste in the supermarket for 5 cents, paying for it at the till, and then being stopped 100 metres down the road by the manager, who takes the toothpaste off you and hands you back the 5 cent.

To strengthen analogy, customers were told there would be a toothpaste sale that day.

noelwpb · 17-04-2008 11:46am

Hi all,

I booked these flights yesterday and im in the same situation as the other 100 or so customers.

I rang the NCA. They are taking names and phone numbers of the customers who had their bookings cancelled and ringing us back tomorrow when they have made a decision on taking action or not.

I think everyone should ring up and give their name and number, if they haven't already done so.

Let's keep our fingers crossed!

JimmyO · 17-04-2008 11:53am

noelwpb wrote: »

Hi all,

I booked these flights yesterday and im in the same situation as the other 100 or so customers.

I rang the NCA. They are taking names and phone numbers of the customers who had their bookings cancelled and ringing us back tomorrow when they have made a decision on taking action or not.

I think everyone should ring up and give their name and number, if they haven't already done so.

Let's keep our fingers crossed!

I registered my complaint online via:

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Working_With_You/Submit_a_Consumer_Complaint/

David@Bayard.co · 17-04-2008 11:59am

Hylus83 wrote: »

The fact that Aer Lingus displayed the fares at the €5 price tag, i would have thought, constituted their intention to sell.

I don't know, under law of contract, could it be seen as a invitation to treat?????

And if so, they can always deny the price they advertised as a mistake!

faceman · 17-04-2008 12:06pm

I havent booked a flight with Aer lingus for a while now. As per the T&C's, when is contract deemed to be in effect? can anyone post a copy of the T&Cs they agreed to?

Jg1982 · 17-04-2008 12:07pm

**CONDITIONS OF CONTRACT**

*1*
As used in this contract "ticket" means this passenger ticket and baggage check, or this itinerary/receipt if applicable, in the case of an electronic ticket, of which these conditions and the notices form part, "carriage" is equivalent to "transportation", "carrier" means all air carriers that carry or undertake to carry the passenger or his baggage hereunder or perform any other service incidental to such air carriage, "electronic ticket" means the Itinerary/Receipt issued by or on behalf of Carrier, the Electronic Coupons and, if applicable, a boarding document. "WARSAW CONVENTION" means the Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules Relating to International Carriage by Air signed at Warsaw, 12th October 1929, or that Convention as amended at The Hague, 28th September 1955, whichever may be applicable.
*2*
Carriage hereunder is subject to the rules and limitations relating to liability established by the Warsaw Convention unless such carriage is not "international carriage" as defined by that Convention.

*3*
To the extent not in conflict with the foregoing carriage and other services performed by each carrier are subject to: (i) provisions contained in the ticket, (ii) applicable tariffs, (iii) carrier's conditions of carriage and related regulations which are made part hereof (and are available on application at the offices of carrier), except in transportation between a place in the United States or Canada and any place outside thereof to which tariffs in force in those countries apply.

*4*
Carrier's name may be abbreviated in the ticket, the full name and its abbreviation being set forth in carrier's tariffs, conditions of carriage, regulations or timetables; carrier's address shall be the airport of departure shown opposite the first abbreviation of carrier's name in the ticket; the agreed stopping places are those places set forth in this ticket or as shown in carrier's timetables as scheduled stopping places on the passenger's route; carriage to be performed hereunder by several successive carriers is regarded as a single operation.

*5*
An air carrier issuing a ticket for carriage over the lines of another air carrier does so only as its Agent.

*6*
Any exclusion or limitation of liability of carrier shall apply to and be for the benefit of agents, servants and representatives of carrier and any person whose aircraft is used by carrier for carriage and its agents, servants and representatives.

*7*
Checked baggage will be delivered to bearer of the baggage check. In case of damage to baggage moving in international transportation complaint must be made in writing to carrier forthwith after discovery of damage and, at the latest, within seven days from receipt; in case of delay, complaint must be made within 21 days from date the baggage was delivered. See tariffs or conditions of carriage regarding non-international transportation.

*8*
This ticket is good for carriage for one year from date of issue, except as otherwise provided in this ticket, in carrier's tariffs, conditions of carriage, or related regulations. The fare for carriage hereunder is subject to change prior to commencement of carriage. Carrier may refuse transportation if the applicable fare has not been paid.

*9*
Carrier undertakes to use its best efforts to carry the passenger and baggage with reasonable dispatch. Times shown in timetables or elsewhere are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. Carrier may without notice substitute alternate carriers or aircraft, and may alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket in case of necessity. Schedules are subject to change without notice. Carrier assumes no responsibility for making connections.

*10*
Passenger shall comply with Government travel requirements, present exit, entry and other required documents and arrive at airport by time fixed by carrier or, if no time is fixed, early enough to complete departure procedures.

*11*
No agent, servant or representative of carrier has authority to alter, modify or waive any provision of this contract.

Carriage is subject to the above Conditions of Contract and to the Aer Lingus General Conditions of Carriage. The latter can be found in http://www.aerlingus.com [Legal sub-section of the Customer Care section] or is available on request.

NOTICE OF LIABILITY LIMITATIONS

The applicable limits of liability for your journey on a flight operated by Aer Lingus are as follows:

1 . There are no financial limits for death or bodily injury and the air carrier may make an advance payment to meet immediate economic needs of the person entitled to claim compensation;
2 In the case of destruction, loss of, or damage or delay to baggage, 1,000 Special Drawing Rights (approximately EUR 1,230) and, if the value of your baggage is greater than this limit, you should inform the carrier at check-in or ensure that it is fully insured prior to travel;
3. In the case of delay to your journey, 4,150 Special Drawing Rights (approximately EUR 5,100).

If your journey also involves carriage by other airlines, you should contact them for information on their limits of liability.

You may benefit from a higher limit of liability for loss of, damage or delay to baggage by making at check-in a special declaration of the value of your baggage and paying a supplementary fee, or by purchasing additional insurance.

Time limit for action: Any action in court to claim damages must be brought within two years from the date of arrival of the aircraft, or from the date on which the aircraft ought to have arrived.

This notice conforms to the requirements of European Community Regulation (EC) No. 889/2002.

**ADVICE TO NON-INTERNATIONAL PASSENGERS ON LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY**

Passengers on a journey involving transportation wholly within Ireland are advised that the Warsaw Convention may be applicable and the Convention governs and in most cases limits the liability of Carriers for death or personal injury and in respect of loss of or damage to baggage.

**NOTICE OF GOVERNMENT IMPOSED TAXES AND FEES**

The price of this ticket may include taxes and fees which are imposed on air transportation by government authorities. These taxes and fees, which may represent a significant portion of the cost of air travel, are either included in the fare, or shown separately in the >>TAX<< box(es) of this ticket. You may also be required to pay taxes or fees not already collected.

**DANGEROUS ARTICLES IN BAGGAGE**

For safety reasons, dangerous articles such as those listed below, must not be carried in passengers baggage. Compressed gases (deeply refrigerated, flammable, non-flammable and poisonous) such as butane, oxygen, liquid nitrogen, aqualung cylinders and compressed gas cylinders. Corrosives, such as acids, alkalis, WET CELL BATTERIES, and items containing mercury. Explosives, munitions, ammunition including blank cartridges, hand guns, fireworks, flares and pistol caps. Flammable liquids and solids, such as lighters that need inverting before ignition, lighter fuel, MATCHES (safety matches may be carried on the person), fire lighters, paints and thinners. Radioactive materials. Oxidising materials, such as bleaching powder and peroxides. Poisons and infectious substances, such as insecticides, weedkillers and live virus materials. Briefcases and attaché cases with installed alarm devices. Other dangerous articles, such as magnetised material, offensive or irritating materials.

Medicines and toiletries in limited quantities required by passengers during the journey, such as hairsprays, perfumes and medicines may be carried. Many of these listed articles can be carried as air cargo provided they are packed in accordance with cargo regulations.

JimmyO · 17-04-2008 12:08pm

David@Bayard.co wrote: »

I don't know, under law of contract, could it be seen as a invitation to treat?????

And if so, they can always deny the price they advertised as a mistake!

Not according to Dermot Jewell of the CAI. What took place was Offer, Acceptance and Consideration.

I've checked with my bank and there's funds on hold for Aer Lingus. Even if I wanted to book a flight with another operator I can't as my money is tied up.

David@Bayard.co · 17-04-2008 12:14pm

There is a fine line between offer and Invitation to treat!!!!

I think they could argue that point till the cows came home and lets be honest ....................; budget airline, they will!!!

Plus they must be covered for technical difficulties and web issues etc ....; there is some law somewhere that will cover there ass.

Its unfortunate but true!!!

macshaned · 17-04-2008 12:17pm

On the Aer Lingus site, there seems to be a more relevant, or detailed, set of terms and conditions, including Involuntary Refunds (which doesn't specify the current situation at all).

10.2 INVOLUNTARY REFUNDS
10.2.1 If we cancel a flight, fail to operate a flight reasonably according to schedule, fail to stop at your destination or Stopover, or cause you to miss a connecting flight, the amount of the refund shall be:

10.2.1.1 if no portion of the Ticket has been used, an amount equal to the fare and any taxes, fees and charges paid;

10.2.1.2 if a portion of the Ticket has been used, the refund will be not less than the difference between the fare and any taxes, fees and charges paid and the applicable fare for travel between the points for which the Ticket has been used.

JimmyO · 17-04-2008 12:22pm

NCA say Aer Lingus are in Breach:

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/News_+_Research/Press%20Releases/Aer_Lingus_fares.html

IsMise · 17-04-2008 12:22pm

Did anyone hear the consumer affairs guy on Ray D'Arcy this morning, I think it may have been Conor Pope - his take on it was that once we were offered a full refund that was it. That was all Aer Lingus was obliged to do.

But since we are hearing different stories from different Consumer Affairs people we live in hope

axer · 17-04-2008 12:23pm

David@Bayard.co wrote: »

There is a fine line between offer and Invitation to treat!!!!

I think they could argue that point till the cows came home and lets be honest ....................; budget airline, they will!!!

Plus they must be covered for technical difficulties and web issues etc ....; there is some law somewhere that will cover there ass.

Its unfortunate but true!!!

Once consideration comes into play it doesnt matter about invitation to treat or not. Aerlingus have accepted the money from a customer and thus have accepted the acceptance from the customer the customer.

Offer: Yes (Displayed on website)
Acceptance: Yes (Purchased online by customer)
Consideration: Yes (Credit card details - even without a credit card charge it would be seen as future consideration)
Intent to Contract: Yes (emailed to customer and available on website)
Capacity to Contract: Yes (company's official website)
Legality of Contract: Yes
Form of Contract: Yes (Does not need to be on paper signed)

There was a full contract between aerlingus and customer. If it was taken as invitation to treat first then it would be.
Invitation to treat (by aerlingus)
Offer (by customer filling out details and cc)
Acceptance (by aerlingus by charging credit card and by sending email with confirmation number)
.....and the rest are the same.

Reporter · 17-04-2008 12:24pm

Folks,

I'm another one of the hundred. If anyone gets a result please post it here so that we can all use it as reference when contacting them.

They wouldnt budge an inch for me even though I fly to America a number of times each year.

Reporter · 17-04-2008 12:25pm

Another thing they seem to be telling fibs. Insisting the payment did not go through when the credit card people say it went through and the money is gone.

the reason for this is that the contract is sealed with the transfer of payment.

TheBigLebowski · 17-04-2008 12:27pm

If all these people who booked €5 business class tickets had any sense of decency, they would accept it as an honest mistake, either human or technical and get over it. Stop trying to rip off the airline.

JimmyO · 17-04-2008 12:28pm

Reporter wrote: »

Another thing they seem to be telling fibs. Insisting the payment did not go through when the credit card people say it went through and the money is gone.

the reason for this is that the contract is sealed with the transfer of payment.

My bank told me the funds are being held for them but they haven't applied for them yet. It's like PayPal.

Still means I can't spend the money elsewhere while it's being 'held'.

axer · 17-04-2008 12:28pm

Reporter wrote: »

the reason for this is that the contract is sealed with the transfer of payment.

It would be sealed even if they claimed they did not charge as there was future or executory consideration used i.e. the credit card.

dsmythy · 17-04-2008 12:55pm

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

If all these people who booked €5 business class tickets had any sense of decency, they would accept it as an honest mistake, either human or technical and get over it. Stop trying to rip off the airline.

I think a drop to economy is all that is being asked for.

MixedMuts · 17-04-2008 1:03pm

CityJet have the following waiver on their website about web site errors....don't see anything on the Aer Fungus site...anyone else?

"A binding contract in relation to a ticket is not formed until Cityjet accepts a customer's offer to buy a ticket. An offer will be deemed to have been accepted by Cityjet once the customer is in receipt of a booking confirmation. Prices are subject to change at any time before acceptance by Cityjet. All flights and products are offered subject to availability. Notwithstanding the foregoing, in the event of a genuine Web site error or inaccuracy, Cityjet reserves the right to withdraw an offer immediately and without notice. Cityjet reserves the right to cancel all confirmed bookings that are subject to genuine Web site error or inaccuracy. In the event of such cancellation Cityjet's only liability shall be to refund the ticket price paid by You. You agree that this is fair and reasonable in the circumstances and your continued use of the Web site indicates your agreement with this specific provision."

here's the page -->
http://www.cityjet.com/others/others/legal.html

MixedMuts · 17-04-2008 1:11pm

This (CityJet waiver) infers that some provision for booking cancellation (due to an Aer Lingus website error) should be in their terms and conditions. If it isn't then I don't see them having a leg to stand on.

noelwpb · 17-04-2008 1:14pm

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

If all these people who booked €5 business class tickets had any sense of decency, they would accept it as an honest mistake, either human or technical and get over it. Stop trying to rip off the airline.

I don't think anybody requested Business class. We were just given it

TheBigLebowski · 17-04-2008 1:15pm

dsmythy wrote: »

I think a drop to economy is all that is being asked for.

An economy ticket is still more than €5. Chancerism of the highest order is what it is.

noelwpb · 17-04-2008 1:18pm

We didn't pay €5 for a flight. I paid €200 per seat

craichoe · 17-04-2008 1:22pm

When an authorisation request is made on your card its to check if they money is there. No billing has been carried out yet. In the authorisation period the it can be billied or withdrawn.

I.E you have not been billed, the transaction is just authorised.

TheBigLebowski · 17-04-2008 1:22pm

noelwpb wrote: »

We didn't pay €5 for a flight. I paid €200 per seat

Was that not mostly taxes and charges? I agree you should be refunded in full for anything you paid of course, but it was an honest error on their part.

penexpers · 17-04-2008 1:25pm

macshaned wrote: »

So, not only was it a computer glitch to charge you €5 for a flight, but the advertising, put together by humans, was wrong also? And the third mistake of providing business class flights instead of economy?

For anyone impacted by this, go straight to the Small Claims Court online site and lodge a claim against Aer Lingus. The National Consumer Agency won't go up against their fellow government organisation Aer Lingus, and the Consumer Association can only provide advice.

The Small Claims Court will handle claims for up to €2000 (and therefore well within the scope of this issue) and a claim will only cost €9 or something. Well worth the money, and Aer Lingus will be forced to respond.

I'm not fully sure about the rights and the wrongs legally, but the SCC will be the one sure way of finding out, and at minimum cost. Everyone involved should do this.

I'm confused - how can you claim for something that you haven't lost.

Jg1982 · 17-04-2008 1:27pm

penexpers wrote: »

I'm confused - how can you claim for something that you haven't lost.

I agree. No point in chasing the monetary value of the business class ticket, because this hasn't cost you €1700. I just want my ticket to be honoured

JimmyO · 17-04-2008 1:30pm

craichoe wrote: »

When an authorisation request is made on your card its to check if they money is there. No billing has been carried out yet. In the authorisation period the it can be billied or withdrawn.

I.E you have not been billed, the transaction is just authorised.

And the funds are frozen.

If Virgin were to offer €5 flights now, most people in this situation can't buy them as they don't have access to the funds that are being held for IE.

macshaned · 17-04-2008 1:32pm

penexpers wrote: »

I'm confused - how can you claim for something that you haven't lost.

At this point in time, you've lost your flight, no?

You bought a ticket to America. It was confirmed by the airline. And then they withdrew from providing their part of the transaction by cancelling your ticket. Classic case for SCC.

At no time did I say to claim for for the €1700 or whatever full cost of the flight. The claim to the SCC is to get what you originally paid for - a flight to America (doesn't matter what the price is - actual, correct or incorrect, or notional).

craichoe · 17-04-2008 1:33pm

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

An economy ticket is still more than €5. Chancerism of the highest order is what it is.

How much is an economy ticket ?
How am i supposed to know what its supposed to cost.

If i was overcharged by Aerlingus by "mistake" would they let me know that the problem even existed ?

I'm sorry, saying "YOU STUPID, CUSTOMER, YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER" is bs ..

Kudos to you lot, hope you get your flight !

axer · 17-04-2008 1:34pm

penexpers wrote: »

I'm confused - how can you claim for something that you haven't lost.

If aerlingus go through with cancelling the tickets then those who had purchased the tickets have lost a ticket to the USA which aerlingus has valued at €1,775.

penexpers · 17-04-2008 1:35pm

Yes, but the AL T+C state that in the event of them not providing a service the limit of their liability is the fare you paid.

Jg1982 · 17-04-2008 1:36pm

They're still providing the service. The flight itself hasn't been cancelled

penexpers · 17-04-2008 1:37pm

axer wrote: »

If aerlingus go through with cancelling the tickets then those who had purchased the tickets have lost a ticket to the USA which aerlingus has valued at €1,775.

No, they have lost a ticket that was valued by Aer Lingus (at the time) at 5 euro (or 200 euro after charges).

penexpers · 17-04-2008 1:38pm

Jg1982 wrote: »

They're still providing the service. The flight itself hasn't been cancelled

I don't think there's anything to stop them cancelling the flight and refunding the people who paid 5 euro and transferring everyone else to a mysterious new flight that happens to leave at the same time.

axer · 17-04-2008 1:38pm

penexpers wrote: »

No, they have lost a ticket that was valued by Aer Lingus (at the time) at 5 euro (or 200 euro after charges).

How much would it cost to replace the item that is the cost that would be sued for i.e. to put the claiment in the position he/she was before there was a breach of contract - to have a flight to the USA.

TheBigLebowski · 17-04-2008 1:38pm

craichoe wrote: »

.

If i was overcharged by Aerlingus by "mistake" would they let me know that the problem even existed ?

I have no doubt that they would if they noticed it.

Davidth88 · 17-04-2008 1:39pm

I think they have truly ' shot themsleves in the foot '.

To give 100 customers a ' offer of a lifetime ' would have gone a long way, the free publicity, good will this would have generated would have been incredible.

Now they look like a penny pinching organisation which is a shame.

On a legal basis , I have no idea where people stand Ill leave that to greater minds than mine.

I hope you get your flights , after all you saw a bargin and jumped , fair play to you.

Jg1982 · 17-04-2008 1:39pm

True, but the PR fallout would be huge. Big Business tramples over consumer rights. Doesn't sound good.

penexpers · 17-04-2008 1:41pm

Jg1982 wrote: »

True, but the PR fallout would be huge. Big Business tramples over consumer rights. Doesn't sound good.

It happens all the time. Big business can do whatever it wants.

axer · 17-04-2008 1:42pm

penexpers wrote: »

It happens all the time. Big business can do whatever it wants.

Thats why it is important that people fight them and don't just expect that since they are a big company that they know what is right or wrong.

People need to know and assert their rights under law.

MixedMuts · 17-04-2008 1:53pm

Joe Duffy is talking about it now

Mountjoy Mugger · 17-04-2008 2:00pm

Last caller on Joe really put a spanner in the works for Aer Lingus. Caller rang A.L. and booked a flight over the phone and a staff member confirmed the flight was €5.00 with charges extra, was a premier seat, and made the booking.

So much for A.L. saying that it was up to the consumer to realise it was a mistake.

craichoe · 17-04-2008 2:01pm

I think if they just pretended that they meant to offer the flights as a secret prize then then:

A. They would have generated alot of postive press
B. Wouldn't look like they completely f*cked up their booking system.

Ryanair would be riding all over the positive PR train by now.

JimmyO · 17-04-2008 2:09pm

craichoe wrote: »

Ryanair would be riding all over the positive PR train by now.

They are!!! www.ryanair.com

MixedMuts · 17-04-2008 2:11pm

Mooney Goes Wild Show on RTE RADIO 1 is asking other airlines to ring in to offer one of 100 affected customers a flight/holiday prize!

Aer Lingus website mistake

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