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Aer Lingus website mistake

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    #62
    JimmyO
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭JimmyO


    David@Bayard.co wrote: »
    I don't know, under law of contract, could it be seen as a invitation to treat?????

    And if so, they can always deny the price they advertised as a mistake!

    Not according to Dermot Jewell of the CAI. What took place was Offer, Acceptance and Consideration.

    I've checked with my bank and there's funds on hold for Aer Lingus. Even if I wanted to book a flight with another operator I can't as my money is tied up.


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    #63
    David@Bayard.co
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭David@Bayard.co


    There is a fine line between offer and Invitation to treat!!!!

    I think they could argue that point till the cows came home and lets be honest ....................; budget airline, they will!!!

    Plus they must be covered for technical difficulties and web issues etc ....; there is some law somewhere that will cover there ass.

    Its unfortunate but true!!!


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    #64
    macshaned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭macshaned


    On the Aer Lingus site, there seems to be a more relevant, or detailed, set of terms and conditions, including Involuntary Refunds (which doesn't specify the current situation at all).

    10.2 INVOLUNTARY REFUNDS
    10.2.1 If we cancel a flight, fail to operate a flight reasonably according to schedule, fail to stop at your destination or Stopover, or cause you to miss a connecting flight, the amount of the refund shall be:

    10.2.1.1 if no portion of the Ticket has been used, an amount equal to the fare and any taxes, fees and charges paid;

    10.2.1.2 if a portion of the Ticket has been used, the refund will be not less than the difference between the fare and any taxes, fees and charges paid and the applicable fare for travel between the points for which the Ticket has been used.


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    #65
    JimmyO
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭JimmyO


    NCA say Aer Lingus are in Breach:

    http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/News_+_Research/Press%20Releases/Aer_Lingus_fares.html


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    #66
    IsMise
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭IsMise


    Did anyone hear the consumer affairs guy on Ray D'Arcy this morning, I think it may have been Conor Pope - his take on it was that once we were offered a full refund that was it. That was all Aer Lingus was obliged to do.

    But since we are hearing different stories from different Consumer Affairs people we live in hope :)


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    #67
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    David@Bayard.co wrote: »
    There is a fine line between offer and Invitation to treat!!!!

    I think they could argue that point till the cows came home and lets be honest ....................; budget airline, they will!!!

    Plus they must be covered for technical difficulties and web issues etc ....; there is some law somewhere that will cover there ass.

    Its unfortunate but true!!!
    Once consideration comes into play it doesnt matter about invitation to treat or not. Aerlingus have accepted the money from a customer and thus have accepted the acceptance from the customer the customer.

    Offer: Yes (Displayed on website)
    Acceptance: Yes (Purchased online by customer)
    Consideration: Yes (Credit card details - even without a credit card charge it would be seen as future consideration)
    Intent to Contract: Yes (emailed to customer and available on website)
    Capacity to Contract: Yes (company's official website)
    Legality of Contract: Yes
    Form of Contract: Yes (Does not need to be on paper signed)

    There was a full contract between aerlingus and customer. If it was taken as invitation to treat first then it would be.
    Invitation to treat (by aerlingus)
    Offer (by customer filling out details and cc)
    Acceptance (by aerlingus by charging credit card and by sending email with confirmation number)
    .....and the rest are the same.


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    #68
    Reporter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭Reporter


    Folks,

    I'm another one of the hundred. If anyone gets a result please post it here so that we can all use it as reference when contacting them.

    They wouldnt budge an inch for me even though I fly to America a number of times each year.


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    #69
    Reporter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭Reporter


    Another thing they seem to be telling fibs. Insisting the payment did not go through when the credit card people say it went through and the money is gone.

    the reason for this is that the contract is sealed with the transfer of payment.


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    #70
    TheBigLebowski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭TheBigLebowski


    If all these people who booked €5 business class tickets had any sense of decency, they would accept it as an honest mistake, either human or technical and get over it. Stop trying to rip off the airline.


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    #71
    JimmyO
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭JimmyO


    Reporter wrote: »
    Another thing they seem to be telling fibs. Insisting the payment did not go through when the credit card people say it went through and the money is gone.

    the reason for this is that the contract is sealed with the transfer of payment.

    My bank told me the funds are being held for them but they haven't applied for them yet. It's like PayPal.

    Still means I can't spend the money elsewhere while it's being 'held'.


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    #72
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Reporter wrote: »
    the reason for this is that the contract is sealed with the transfer of payment.
    It would be sealed even if they claimed they did not charge as there was future or executory consideration used i.e. the credit card.


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    #73
    dsmythy
    Registered Users Posts: 10,509 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    TheBigLebowski wrote: »
    If all these people who booked €5 business class tickets had any sense of decency, they would accept it as an honest mistake, either human or technical and get over it. Stop trying to rip off the airline.

    I think a drop to economy is all that is being asked for.


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    #74
    MixedMuts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭MixedMuts


    CityJet have the following waiver on their website about web site errors....don't see anything on the Aer Fungus site...anyone else?


    "A binding contract in relation to a ticket is not formed until Cityjet accepts a customer's offer to buy a ticket. An offer will be deemed to have been accepted by Cityjet once the customer is in receipt of a booking confirmation. Prices are subject to change at any time before acceptance by Cityjet. All flights and products are offered subject to availability. Notwithstanding the foregoing, in the event of a genuine Web site error or inaccuracy, Cityjet reserves the right to withdraw an offer immediately and without notice. Cityjet reserves the right to cancel all confirmed bookings that are subject to genuine Web site error or inaccuracy. In the event of such cancellation Cityjet's only liability shall be to refund the ticket price paid by You. You agree that this is fair and reasonable in the circumstances and your continued use of the Web site indicates your agreement with this specific provision."

    here's the page -->
    http://www.cityjet.com/others/others/legal.html


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    #75
    MixedMuts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭MixedMuts


    This (CityJet waiver) infers that some provision for booking cancellation (due to an Aer Lingus website error) should be in their terms and conditions. If it isn't then I don't see them having a leg to stand on.


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    #76
    noelwpb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭noelwpb


    TheBigLebowski wrote: »
    If all these people who booked €5 business class tickets had any sense of decency, they would accept it as an honest mistake, either human or technical and get over it. Stop trying to rip off the airline.

    I don't think anybody requested Business class. We were just given it


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    #77
    TheBigLebowski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭TheBigLebowski


    dsmythy wrote: »
    I think a drop to economy is all that is being asked for.

    An economy ticket is still more than €5. Chancerism of the highest order is what it is.


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    #78
    noelwpb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭noelwpb


    We didn't pay €5 for a flight. I paid €200 per seat


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    #79
    craichoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭craichoe


    When an authorisation request is made on your card its to check if they money is there. No billing has been carried out yet. In the authorisation period the it can be billied or withdrawn.

    I.E you have not been billed, the transaction is just authorised.


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    #80
    TheBigLebowski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭TheBigLebowski


    noelwpb wrote: »
    We didn't pay €5 for a flight. I paid €200 per seat

    Was that not mostly taxes and charges? I agree you should be refunded in full for anything you paid of course, but it was an honest error on their part.


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    #81
    penexpers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭penexpers


    macshaned wrote: »
    So, not only was it a computer glitch to charge you €5 for a flight, but the advertising, put together by humans, was wrong also? And the third mistake of providing business class flights instead of economy?

    For anyone impacted by this, go straight to the Small Claims Court online site and lodge a claim against Aer Lingus. The National Consumer Agency won't go up against their fellow government organisation Aer Lingus, and the Consumer Association can only provide advice.

    The Small Claims Court will handle claims for up to €2000 (and therefore well within the scope of this issue) and a claim will only cost €9 or something. Well worth the money, and Aer Lingus will be forced to respond.

    I'm not fully sure about the rights and the wrongs legally, but the SCC will be the one sure way of finding out, and at minimum cost. Everyone involved should do this.

    I'm confused - how can you claim for something that you haven't lost.


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    #82
    Jg1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Jg1982


    penexpers wrote: »
    I'm confused - how can you claim for something that you haven't lost.

    I agree. No point in chasing the monetary value of the business class ticket, because this hasn't cost you €1700. I just want my ticket to be honoured


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    #83
    JimmyO
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭JimmyO


    craichoe wrote: »
    When an authorisation request is made on your card its to check if they money is there. No billing has been carried out yet. In the authorisation period the it can be billied or withdrawn.

    I.E you have not been billed, the transaction is just authorised.
    And the funds are frozen.

    If Virgin were to offer €5 flights now, most people in this situation can't buy them as they don't have access to the funds that are being held for IE.


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    #84
    macshaned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭macshaned


    penexpers wrote: »
    I'm confused - how can you claim for something that you haven't lost.

    At this point in time, you've lost your flight, no?

    You bought a ticket to America. It was confirmed by the airline. And then they withdrew from providing their part of the transaction by cancelling your ticket. Classic case for SCC.

    At no time did I say to claim for for the €1700 or whatever full cost of the flight. The claim to the SCC is to get what you originally paid for - a flight to America (doesn't matter what the price is - actual, correct or incorrect, or notional).


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    #85
    craichoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭craichoe


    TheBigLebowski wrote: »
    An economy ticket is still more than €5. Chancerism of the highest order is what it is.

    How much is an economy ticket ?
    How am i supposed to know what its supposed to cost.

    If i was overcharged by Aerlingus by "mistake" would they let me know that the problem even existed ?

    I'm sorry, saying "YOU STUPID, CUSTOMER, YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER" is bs ..

    Kudos to you lot, hope you get your flight ! :)


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    #86
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    penexpers wrote: »
    I'm confused - how can you claim for something that you haven't lost.
    If aerlingus go through with cancelling the tickets then those who had purchased the tickets have lost a ticket to the USA which aerlingus has valued at €1,775.


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    #87
    penexpers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭penexpers


    Yes, but the AL T+C state that in the event of them not providing a service the limit of their liability is the fare you paid.


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    #88
    Jg1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Jg1982


    They're still providing the service. The flight itself hasn't been cancelled


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    #89
    penexpers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭penexpers


    axer wrote: »
    If aerlingus go through with cancelling the tickets then those who had purchased the tickets have lost a ticket to the USA which aerlingus has valued at €1,775.

    No, they have lost a ticket that was valued by Aer Lingus (at the time) at 5 euro (or 200 euro after charges).


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    #90
    penexpers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭penexpers


    Jg1982 wrote: »
    They're still providing the service. The flight itself hasn't been cancelled

    I don't think there's anything to stop them cancelling the flight and refunding the people who paid 5 euro and transferring everyone else to a mysterious new flight that happens to leave at the same time.


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    #91
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    penexpers wrote: »
    No, they have lost a ticket that was valued by Aer Lingus (at the time) at 5 euro (or 200 euro after charges).
    How much would it cost to replace the item that is the cost that would be sued for i.e. to put the claiment in the position he/she was before there was a breach of contract - to have a flight to the USA.


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