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N20 thread

2456

Comments

  • #32
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    corktina wrote: »
    I more or less agree...what a waste having an M7 and a M8.....should be dublin/limerick/cork imho...

    In other countries thats what would be the way to go. Meath has three motorways. The m7/m8/m9 is not needed. one going down by waterford, or one going as you stated.


    M3 should be connected to the A5 and given some proper use. Hey im making people that run the country look stupid:D


  • #33
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,166 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Buttevant is one of the deadest and dingiest towns I've ever been in, no wonder they want trade

    I think if morons like the poster of that continue to think in this fashion, see his/her/its earlier posts on the topic, then he should go to the main street in Buttevant or wander into a pub or too and share his opinions.


  • #34
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    trellheim wrote: »
    I think if morons like the poster of that continue to think in this fashion, see his/her/its earlier posts on the topic, then he should go to the main street in Buttevant or wander into a pub or too and share his opinions.


    However he's not wrong Buttevant is dingy. at the moment Mallow is as far as a lot of people will go if they are commuting into Cork, build DC up to Buttevant & Charleville and the commuter belt is extended, much in the same way Mitchelstown, Fermoy & Rathcormac have had lots of new housing developments with the advent of the N8/M8. this is an example of urban sprawl.

    At least Buttevant & Charleville have a railway line. some Mallow commuter trains to go slightly further north in the years to come?not likely.


  • #35
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    ditto Invincibleirishes post really...

    some services on the railway north of Mallow do in fact call to Charleville...I cant imagine why the Buttevant poeple arent yelling for a new station, especially as it is quite conveniant for the town centre (such as it is..)


  • #36
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,693 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    Tho this is quite an old image I'm working off, so it may not be right.
    Did you mean to post a link?
    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    Cork - Limerick should go Cork - Mitchelstown - Limerick. Mitchelstown - Portlaoise shouldnt be motorway. Cork - Dublin should be Cork - somewhere north of Waterford - Dublin.
    Cork - Mitchelstown - Limerick has the slight matter of mountains in the way.

    They could easily have done Cork-Mallow-Limerick-Dublin and Cork-Youghal-Waterford and omitted a motorway or two. There was a suggestion that the M9 follow the N77 in Kilkenny, but the Carlow people went "waaaaaaaaaa".


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  • #37
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Victor wrote: »
    Did you mean to post a link?

    I better not. Not sure if this one is supposed to really be public domain yet :(


  • #38
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Victor wrote: »
    Did you mean to post a link?

    Cork - Mitchelstown - Limerick has the slight matter of mountains in the way.
    Cork Mitchelstown is being built mountains or not.
    Mitchelstown to Hospital route would pass through about 3km of steep valley between Knocknaceol and Balyarthur hill are along the route of R513- tough but not impossible to build. highest land is less than 170m compared to kilworth at >200m altitude.


  • #39
    1huge1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,180 ✭✭✭1huge1


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Cork Mitchelstown is being built mountains or not.
    Mitchelstown to Hospital route would pass through about 3km of steep valley between Knocknaceol and Balyarthur hill are along the route of R513- tough but not impossible to build. highest land is less than 170m compared to kilworth at >200m altitude.
    Are you saing theres plans to have a motorway near hospital (my place of living...) interesting indeed


  • #40
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,693 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    1huge1 wrote: »
    Are you saing theres plans to have a motorway near hospital (my place of living...) interesting indeed
    No, merely that it might be an idea.

    Carawaystick, in that case, see pic.


  • #41
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Tiny update, but a site office to make detailled plans for the Mallow - Croom section was set up in March 08.


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  • #42
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    Victor wrote: »
    No, merely that it might be an idea.

    Carawaystick, in that case, see pic.

    Well it's certainly a good concept - it uses a least cost to builder pattern. Presuming that the Mitchelstown to Limerick section would be designated as the M20, it would double as a replacement for both the N20 and N24 (Cahir to Limerick). The Cahir to North of Waterford section would possibly be designated as the M24 and if it was to be of motorway standard, it might act as a fast alternative to the N25 (Waterford to Cork). That would be especially true if the M24 was extended east to the proposed New Ross By-pass, thereby creating a very attractive alternative for Rosslare Europort traffic. The New Ross By-pass itself could be scaled up to motorway standard (as far as the N30 junction), and the M25 could easily be extended northwards to link in. Now, that would be money well spent!

    Regards!


  • #43
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    Irish and Proud wrote: »
    Well it's certainly a good concept - it uses a least cost to builder pattern. Presuming that the Mitchelstown to Limerick section would be designated as the M20, it would double as a replacement for both the N20 and N24 (Cahir to Limerick). The Cahir to North of Waterford section would possibly be designated as the M24 and if it was to be of motorway standard, it might act as a fast alternative to the N25 (Waterford to Cork). That would be especially true if the M24 was extended east to the proposed New Ross By-pass, thereby creating a very attractive alternative for Rosslare Europort traffic. The New Ross By-pass itself could be scaled up to motorway standard (as far as the N30 junction), and the M25 could easily be extended northwards to link in. Now, that would be money well spent!

    Regards!

    You could even put the Limerick routed near cahir and still go along m24, but have slips to go south for cork, as a multiplex there. rather than go all the way directly to Mitchellstown.

    Also I'm really stopped in my tracks as to why the facking government can't seem to see the money savings or the lesser time to build a complete motorway system with less than half of the current road building snaking there are doing atm... oh well to late now.. AGAIN


  • #44
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,693 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    mysterious wrote: »
    You could even put the Limerick routed near cahir and still go along m24, but have slips to go south for cork, as a multiplex there. rather than go all the way directly to Mitchellstown.
    Limerick-Cahir-Cork isn't very efficient.


  • #45
    1huge1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,180 ✭✭✭1huge1


    Oh that would be a dream come true, I live right on that route and as easy as it is to get to cork now with mitchelstown being only 20mins away, but a motorway to both cities...

    I doubt the department would ever even consider this considering there current stance towards the N20


  • #46
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Wild (and hopeful) guesswork from me says scheme will go to CPO in late 2009 with construction start in mid 2010 with opening in late 2011/2012.


  • #47
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    Wild (and hopeful) guesswork from me says scheme will go to CPO in late 2009 with construction start in mid 2010 with opening in late 2011/2012.

    Oh i dont know about that, what with public finances deteriorating, spending cuts anyone? even though there were nice shiny Transport 21 ads in the papers on Sunday, and funding is supposedly ringfenced, can anyone really believe that road buildimg deserves priority over other areas of Gov. funding?

    Cowens gonna get you N20!

    http://images.ireland.com/focus/election_2002/picsarchive/brian_cowen1.jpg


  • #48
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    I think they'll still push the roads as they're the governments happy little 'we are making progress' thing, unlike the HSE or the schools which you can sink any amount of money into and not see such a massive difference.


  • #49
    Zoney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Zoney


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    I think they'll still push the roads as they're the governments happy little 'we are making progress' thing, unlike the HSE or the schools which you can sink any amount of money into and not see such a massive difference.

    Well, I don't know about schools. I think most people would notice their kids not having to be cramped 30+ at a time into damp rat-infested decades old prefabs that make school yards a distant memory.

    However, I agree that the govt. seem to have their hearts set on the roads programme above all else, above public transport, health, education, justice/policing, etc. etc.

    I think we'll see the programme continue, but slowed down. The way that the 2001-2003 post dot-com dip was a factor in pushing the interurbans from 2006 completion to 2010 completion.


  • #50
    dmeehan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭dmeehan


    invincibleirish wrote: »
    Oh i dont know about that, what with public finances deteriorating, spending cuts anyone? even though there were nice shiny Transport 21 ads in the papers on Sunday, and funding is supposedly ringfenced, can anyone really believe that road buildimg deserves priority over other areas of Gov. funding?

    Cowens gonna get you N20!

    http://images.ireland.com/focus/election_2002/picsarchive/brian_cowen1.jpg
    i also saw a T21 advert on tv. I still dont get why they are advertising it, is there an election soon?


  • #51
    Limerick91
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Limerick91


    2 points

    Does anybody know when the works in and around Buttavent will be completed.

    Secondly here is a copy of an email I received from the NRA regarding the N20

    "Thank you for your email.

    The Government's national transport infrastructure investment programme 'Transport 21' and the National Development Plan (NDP), 2007 - 2013, provide the policy framework for the Authority's activities for the development of the national roads network. Under these plans, the initial focus of the Authority's programme of works is concentrated on the completion of the five major inter-urban routes linking Dublin to Cork, Waterford, Limerick, Galway and Northern Ireland (via the M1) to motorway/high quality dual carriageway standard. The plans anticipate the completion of these strategic routes in their entirety by the end of 2010. Projects on these routes will, accordingly, receive priority for funding in the period to 2010, with the bulk of the remaining funding available being directed towards construction works on other routes to which we are already contractually committed or which require early attention, taking account of the specific provisions of Transport 21 and the NDP.



    Having regard to the above, the timeframe for projects on other routes has not yet been determined. The provision of funding to advance the Mallow - Croom road scheme to construction will be kept under review taking account of the situation generally within the national roads programme, including demands on available finances arising from the specific objective to complete the major inter-urban routes."


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  • #52
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    I think they'll still push the roads as they're the governments happy little 'we are making progress' thing, unlike the HSE or the schools which you can sink any amount of money into and not see such a massive difference.


    *sigh* unfortunately you may be right Chris, what a shame its come to this, our health and education services suffer at all levels, but hey general public your town got a bypass! is this what passes for good government for these days?


  • #53
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    limerickros wrote: »
    2 points

    Does anybody know when the works in and around Buttavent will be completed.

    Secondly here is a copy of an email I received from the NRA regarding the N20

    "Thank you for your email.

    The Government's national transport infrastructure investment programme 'Transport 21' and the National Development Plan (NDP), 2007 - 2013, provide the policy framework for the Authority's activities for the development of the national roads network. Under these plans, the initial focus of the Authority's programme of works is concentrated on the completion of the five major inter-urban routes linking Dublin to Cork, Waterford, Limerick, Galway and Northern Ireland (via the M1) to motorway/high quality dual carriageway standard. The plans anticipate the completion of these strategic routes in their entirety by the end of 2010. Projects on these routes will, accordingly, receive priority for funding in the period to 2010, with the bulk of the remaining funding available being directed towards construction works on other routes to which we are already contractually committed or which require early attention, taking account of the specific provisions of Transport 21 and the NDP.



    Having regard to the above, the timeframe for projects on other routes has not yet been determined. The provision of funding to advance the Mallow - Croom road scheme to construction will be kept under review taking account of the situation generally within the national roads programme, including demands on available finances arising from the specific objective to complete the major inter-urban routes."

    The first paragraph of that is a standard copy/paste that the NRA send out. I dont mean to blow my own trumpet but my (guesswork) post above is probably more relevant than what they can email you.

    What I do know is that the NRA realise that Mallow-Croom is in a **** state, but the governments insistence on the interurbans means it cant be done yet. West of Ireland political muscle is forcing the N18 through first, although I agree that both Gort and Clarinbridge need bypasses and doing only one of the two N18 schemes would be counterproductive as you'd be left with a traffic jam inducing 20km gap. Cork and Limerick dont seem to have the political muscle to push things in the same way.

    BTW Cork Council demanded that the N22 Ballincollig - Ballyvourney (actually 2 schemes), N20 Cork - Limerick (2 schemes), N25 Carrigtwohill - Midleton (happening soon) and N25 Midleton - Youghal all go through immediately without delay. This is unreasonable to expect, but they have no idea how to push things properly.

    N22 Ballyvourney - Macroom is going ahead fairly soon, its getting priority to the N20 Mallow - Croom, and I kind of agree. Mallow - Croom is bad but tolerable, Macroom has a bridge that cant take a lorry and a car at the same time and sections west of Macroom are just downright dangerous.


  • #54
    rekrow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭rekrow


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    Cork and Limerick dont seem to have the political muscle to push things in the same way.

    I think we are suffering from a case of far away fields being greener. I live in Galway and most people around here would think that both Limerick and Cork have got a better deal than Galway.

    A few points for the Galway arguement.

    1. Before the election last year the only NRA scheme for the whole of county Galway was the Loughrea bypass. 3kms of single carriageway with at level junctions.

    2. The main reason the Athenry to Crusheen road is being built is because of pressure from the US companies in Galway complaining about access to Shannon.

    3. As a percentage more of the N4/6 route is being built by private operators (50% approx) than for either the N7 or N8 (less than 25%). Tolls for a one way trip Gal/Dub will be about €6 vs about €4 for limerick and Cork.

    4. Of the large urban centres Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford, Sligo, Kilkenny, Dundalk, Athlone, pick which one doesn't have a ring road/bypass and probably won't in 3 years time.

    5. N7, N24, N20, and N18 out of Limerick have all seen improvements over the last few years. In fact of the national routes in Limerick only the stretch from Croom to the Cork border is very bad.

    6. 2 years ago I went to a funeral in Cork city centre on a friday evening on a summer bank holiday weekend. I breezed into Cork city centre with no major hold ups. Maybe that was a freak occurance, but I wouldn't go near Galway city centre on a Friday evening especially during the Summer.

    I do think that there is political influence at work in the prioritisation of the roads (as I have stated in another post) and the road from Mallow to Croom should be done before Gort to Athenry (please stop saying the road will finish in Oranmore (see note) , it doesn't!!!). But please don't for one second think that Galway is getting an unfair advantage over other regions.

    Note: General comment not you specifically Chris. NRA keep trying to say the road ends in Oranmore, when it is closer to Athenry. I think this will be a crucial deciding factor when commuter traffic in Galway decide whether or not to use this.


  • #55
    Zoney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Zoney


    rekrow:

    At least Galway has the entire city within the City council area. Limerick really suffers through being half city, half county, with even a Co. Clare element. The city is a disaster in terms of planning, and a single local authority for the city would have far more clout nationally too.
    rekrow wrote: »
    4. Of the large urban centres Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford, Sligo, Kilkenny, Dundalk, Athlone, pick which one doesn't have a ring road/bypass and probably won't in 3 years time.

    Pick one which doesn't have much out the other side of it. All the others are places you have to go through to get to the next major area. Galway is its own destination apart from people going to the countryside in the west. The current N18 between the N6 and N17 forms the only "bypass" that is essential for Galway in the sense of handling long distance traffic.

    I've been in Galway, and traffic is bad and needs a ring road, but the point is that the above issue does distinguish Galway and put it further down the list than any of the other places you mention.


  • #56
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    rekrow wrote: »
    6. 2 years ago I went to a funeral in Cork city centre on a friday evening on a summer bank holiday weekend. I breezed into Cork city centre with no major hold ups. Maybe that was a freak occurance, but I wouldn't go near Galway city centre on a Friday evening especially during the Summer.

    this is the difference between tourist friendly Galway & Cork, Cork City is pretty quite in the summer time especially on a bank holiday weekend, everyone is on holidays (possibly in Galway), so it was not a freak occurence as such.
    especially if you were coming into the city.


  • #57
    embraer170
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭embraer170


    Chris_533976 wrote: »

    N22 Ballyvourney - Macroom is going ahead fairly soon, its getting priority to the N20 Mallow - Croom, and I kind of agree. Mallow - Croom is bad but tolerable, Macroom has a bridge that cant take a lorry and a car at the same time and sections west of Macroom are just downright dangerous.

    What is fairly soon? What route was selected?


  • #58
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,693 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Zoney wrote: »
    Pick one which doesn't have much out the other side of it. All the others are places you have to go through to get to the next major area. Galway is its own destination apart from people going to the countryside in the west. The current N18 between the N6 and N17 forms the only "bypass" that is essential for Galway in the sense of handling long distance traffic.
    But won't someone think of the people who bought a house on the west side and work on the east side!


  • #59
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    ...and all have to funnel down Bishop O Donnell Road!

    33,000 AADT on a two lane curvy road with unsequenced traffic lights


  • #60
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    invincibleirish wrote: »
    this is the difference between tourist friendly Galway & Cork, Cork City is pretty quite in the summer time especially on a bank holiday weekend, everyone is on holidays (possibly in Galway), so it was not a freak occurence as such.
    especially if you were coming into the city.

    Agreed. Cork in the summer is very quiet. In fairness we don't have real traffic problems when the schools are on holidays. Then again ever since Patricks St was closed on Monday the city has been a complete disaster in the evenings traffic wise. Merchant's Quay and Parnell Place are a nightmare.


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  • #61
    1huge1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,180 ✭✭✭1huge1


    rekrow wrote: »

    5. N7, N24, N20, and N18 out of Limerick have all seen improvements over the last few years. In fact of the national routes in Limerick only the stretch from Croom to the Cork border is very bad.

    Not a major point but I don't know what improvement your on about on the N24, that road is as terrible as always


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