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    #812
    ztoical
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    Ibid wrote: »

    There should be a toll for private cars entering Dublin city, dependent on the time of day and negatively related with how many people you have in the car.

    I'd take it a step further and limit the number of non-dublin license plates [ie all the cluchie cars] let in during the day and they should be banned from the city center

    [note I'm saying this and my car has TN plates on it, but it wrecks my head the number of cars going the wrong way on one way streets esp on parliment street and they nearly always have cluchie plates]


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    #813
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    DáireM wrote: »
    Sorry, just to clarify; I'm not talking about putting a gun to people's heads. What I am talking about is actually teaching primary school teachers how to speak basic Irish and teach it to their classes, the standard of Irish of children going into secondary school is absolutely abysmal.

    Someone doesn't pass the test, fair enough but at least they had every opportunity to learn our native tongue. At the very least it might change people's perceptions of Irish as a dead language if a few more people were able to speak it. I do think it should be compulsary.

    er, people do have every opportunity, 13-14 years in school if I'm not mistaken.

    Making Irish compulsory for LC level is a joke, a waste of a subject really. By Junior Cert anyone who can be bothered will have a reasonable grasp of the language already. Languages evolve, they change, some die out. That's the way of things. If Irish has outlived it's usefulness as a language then so be it. Anyone who wants to learn it still can, but force-feeding it to thousands of mostly-uninterested schoolchildren achieves little imo. You leave school having studied higher level Irish to LC level, speaking it fairly well, only to rarely if ever use it again. Pointless.


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    #814
    DáireM
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭DáireM


    Not really 14 years is a huge exaggeration, the 8 years in primary school most people don't even learn the basic verbs. By the time people have got to the leaving cert they've only had 3 years of decent Irish classes.

    @ Davyjose: I never said it wasn't compulsary, I think it should stay compulsary. Also regarding the English words coming into Irish, it's happening to modern languages all over the world. France even have a government committee thing to prevent it happening where they make up new French words for their English equivalents.


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    #815
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    DáireM wrote: »
    Not really 14 years is a huge exaggeration, the 8 years in primary school most people don't even learn the basic verbs. By the time people have got to the leaving cert they've only had 3 years of decent Irish classes.

    Who's fault is that? I was still subjected to it. I kept my side of the bargain.
    DáireM wrote: »
    I never said it wasn't compulsary, I think it should stay compulsary.
    But clearly from the previous statement something is going wrong so I say we enter a Brave New World and quit learning this defunct language and use that time learn about something more relevant ... like the property market.


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    #816
    ztoical
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    DáireM wrote: »
    Not really 14 years is a huge exaggeration, the 8 years in primary school most people don't even learn the basic verbs. By the time people have got to the leaving cert they've only had 3 years of decent Irish classes.

    very true when I got to seconday school I got mixed with a bunch of different of girls from different primary schools and everyone had a different level of irish but the teacher taught everyone as if we were all at the same level and a bunch of people got left behind in 1st year and they weren't able to make it up - they got shoved to pass level in second year and that was that.

    You then jump from JC irish were you are trying to hold a simple conversation to LC irish were they expect you to talk about poems. People just memorize the stuff but don't know it. I know girls who got grades in irish talking about these silly poems but none of them could ask for directions in irish.

    My parents both speak Irish and lived on the arann islands for a number of years and I was born there, left when I was three and once I started school I actually stopped using the irish I had, then lost it all. Its only since finishing seconday school that I've start speaking irish with my parents again and am slowly getting back a decent understanding of the language. I'm never going to be good at writing it but then I'm not very good at spelling and writing in english [as everyone can see from some of my posts]


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    #817
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    DáireM wrote: »
    Not really 14 years is a huge exaggeration, the 8 years in primary school most people don't even learn the basic verbs. By the time people have got to the leaving cert they've only had 3 years of decent Irish classes

    eh? really? Everyone i know found the second level curriculum a step backwards. I remember doing stuff in 6th class that I didn't need again until the leaving cert. vocabulary broadened but that was about it.

    that reminds me, i know of Final year honours Irish students at 3rd level who've managed to get by their entire college life without knowing the Módh Coinnealach. Depressing to think they will probably go on to teach it to our kids. seemingly our whole attitude to the language at all levels of society needs to alter if it's to survive, which is way to much to ask.


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    #818
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    DáireM wrote: »
    I think that everyone should have to learn Irish to a high level of fluency. I don't care if it's a "dead" language, it's up to us not to desert our heritage. This also applies to immigrants and their children.

    sorry mate, i don't give a f*ck about irish and i don't want it forced on me because you like it. what you've just said is the mantra of all extremists. just replace irish with the belief/political ideology/behaviour of your choice

    eg: I think that everyone should have to believe in islam . I don't care if it's [a negative perception about islam], it's up to us not to desert our heritage. This also applies to immigrants and their children.


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    #819
    Wacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭Wacker


    thelastangryman wrote: »
    Not all. Just the ten percent who can adequately use the web. Also this thread is designed to keep crap threads off of the main AH board to shut the hell up.
    Not really actually. I didn't have any real mission statement in mind at all when I started the thread.

    It has worked as a sponge for many of the other threads to some extent, as in it has soaked up a lot of the rubbish that ends up all over the place normally. The only things I don't like about how the thread turned out is that there is rarely much discussion about the opinions, and many of the opinions posted here aren't in the least bit controversial.


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    #820
    Dennis the Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭Dennis the Stone


    Some of the rubbish above doesn't belong anywhere.. maybe in the Recycle Bin.
    Why not make a forum for the ten percent of Irish people who hold an opinion that black women smell unpleasant? Unbelievable.


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    #821
    Archeron
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭Archeron


    Brian Cowen killed the dinosaurs. (and then ate them)


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    #822
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,029 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    DáireM wrote: »
    France even have a government committee thing to prevent it happening where they make up new French words for their English equivalents.

    Oh dear God, please don't remind me of that.

    THe amount of times I was brow beaten for using the term "e-mail" in an essay instead of "Courriage" or however the feck they pronounce it.

    Never go to a francophone school.



    I was given an exam once claiming that every language in the world except English and Spainish are dying out. The French have a massive chip on their shoulder about this



    Irish? Trust mefolks, what made me learn Irish was living in a foreign country. Nothing is more useful travelling around Europe speaking Irish to your pals. Noone has a clue what your talking about. When in Ireland you can't take the risk as people nearby might know Irish


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    #823
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    You can often tell what somebody is going to speak like based on what they're wearing.


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    #824
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    kickoutthejams wrote: »

    Irish? Trust mefolks, what made me learn Irish was living in a foreign country. Nothing is more useful travelling around Europe speaking Irish to your pals. Noone has a clue what your talking about. When in Ireland you can't take the risk as people nearby might know Irish

    the problem there is that my pals don't understand it either


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    #825
    thefinalstage
    Registered Users Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭thefinalstage


    Wacker wrote: »
    Not really actually. I didn't have any real mission statement in mind at all when I started the thread.

    It has worked as a sponge for many of the other threads to some extent, as in it has soaked up a lot of the rubbish that ends up all over the place normally. The only things I don't like about how the thread turned out is that there is rarely much discussion about the opinions, and many of the opinions posted here aren't in the least bit controversial.

    Controversy....

    Trans gender people are still their original sex regardless of how they look.


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    #826
    singloud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 369 ✭✭singloud


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    Sorry mate but that's not how it works. The onus of proof is on he who makes the claim in the first place. People who believe in a fairytale god who listens to their prayers (and acts on them) are delusional. Simple as. Look up the meaning of the word delusion.

    I'm with AttractiveNun, I do tend to think a bit less of people who believe in nonsensical religious gibberish and take the bible/quran literally. They are generally either stupid,ignorant or too dishonest/weak minded to face up to things as they are rather than inventing fairytales to make themseleves feel better. Religious fundamentalists on the other hand are invariably stupid and/or crazy.

    Possibly the most annoying post I have seen in this thread. Not because it deals with racism or xenophobia but for sheer bigotry and conceitedness.

    Sorry son, the onus is on you. You made a claim that God not existing is a solid fact. You were the one to make such a claim in the first place. IF anyone wants to make such a claim and say it's fact, they need to be able to back it up. A theist who claims God exists should be expected to prove God exists, especially if they claim it's fact. One who claims they *think* God exists, say that it can never be proven and that it relies on faith etc is putting in that they have personal beliefs. Likewise an atheist who says they think God doesn't exist, respects other religions/beliefs etc is all well and good.


    You claim that something is fact. Not that another belief cannot be fact but that your own is. Put up or shut up.

    Ah yes, asking someone to look up the meaning of word deluded? Maybe look up arrogance yourself.

    Religious people being stupid? I was unaware that theism/atheism was a predicate for intelligence or common sense. How about we look at some religious people who were intelligent? Isaac Newton, Louis Pasteur, Alexander Fleming. All men i would consider highly intelligent but also theists. There really is no link between intelligence and religion. A theist can be just as stupid or intelligent as an atheist.


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    #827
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,176 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    singloud - it depends on one's definition of intelligence.

    As religious beliefs require a 'leap of faith', or in non-religious jargon: the belief in something for no better reason than you want to believe in it, it can be said that in order to hold religious beliefs one must be capable of self-delusion. Many consider self-delusion to equate to stupidity.

    I'd look at it as akin to the way people can be selectively "intelligent". For example, I think we all know someone who is exceptionally talented in some way while totally scatterbrained when it comes to 'common sense' issues. Or in another fashion, someone could be quite 'unintelligent' in an academic light but hold an exceptionally high emotional intelligence etc.

    To say religious beliefs are stupid doesn't mean that those who hold them are stupid in every fashion, just that when it comes to that issue, they're behaving in a stupid fashion.


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    #828
    wibblewobble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭wibblewobble


    Ah the old God exists because you can't prove he doesnt argument.

    Heres the thing right -

    The Old Testament was written by Jews, the New Testament by Christians.

    The two portions are in direct conflict as the first prophesises the rise of the Christ but jews do not accept it was Jesus.

    No where in the Bible does it say... give yer man in the dog collar a free house, a housekeeper, a car and free holidays.

    Neither does it say subjugate the people to the point of starvation and tell them how good the next life will be.

    Yet on a weekly basis the masses head down to the Church to recite verse over and over (exactly the same as brain washing).

    Read about who begot who and generally vie to be more holy than that scarlet woman from no.43

    We have gone from the church stating the priest and the pope are tops to old lads on their last legs helping the priest serve bread and wine. And now we even have funeral groups who conduct the service if a priest isnt available.

    All in the name of our Lord...

    Internet evangelism is only the next form of burning unbelievers at the stake.

    I do have faith in a higher power but he doesn't sit in the church on a cold sunday waiting to hear me read from a pamphlet, especially when the Hollyoaks omnibus is on.

    Peace be with you


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    #829
    herbieflowers
    Registered Users Posts: 2,604 ✭✭✭herbieflowers


    Oh go off to the Creationism thread will ye!


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    #830
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,029 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    wibblewobble wrote: »
    Ah the old God exists because you can't prove he doesnt argument.
    Where does he say God exists?
    It seems he's saying we can never know. Not that God does exist.
    wibblewobble wrote: »

    No where in the Bible does it say... give yer man in the dog collar a free house, a housekeeper, a car and free holidays.

    Neither does it say subjugate the people to the point of starvation and tell them how good the next life will be.
    Theism is not exclusively relating to Christianity.
    Likewise, there is a large difference between Theism and Christian tradition.
    Also what a bunch of right wing fundamentalists spout does not equate to the actions of most theists.


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    #831
    wibblewobble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭wibblewobble


    Theism is only one step away from ifism and then next thing you know we are on the road to doism.

    Perhaps there would less gobism if people's daddy didnt listen to the pope and jism.


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    #832
    juuge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 792 ✭✭✭juuge


    All travellers/ Itinerants, Gypsies whatever you want to call them....smell bad !
    This is a fact.


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    #833
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,978 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    Are you going to show us your research, or is FACT the new LITERALLY, as in " I LITERALLY FLEW AROUND THE ROOM!"


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    #834
    slipss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭slipss


    davyjose wrote: »
    There's not even enough words - they take English words for modern things and Irish them up (e.g desk is deasc; Telephone is teileafón :rolleyes:) - that's jus fookin stupih

    I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other about the conservation of the Irish language, but that point is fookin stupid (annoying over used rolled eyes smiley), I presume you think all modern english words were plucked from thin air? do a google search for etymology, read a few of the pages and then edit that stupid fookin post please. (second extremely over used rolled eyes smiley added for extra effect).


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    #835
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    singloud wrote: »
    Possibly the most annoying post I have seen in this thread. Not because it deals with racism or xenophobia but for sheer bigotry and conceitedness

    Good, I'm glad you're annoyed. It was meant to be annoying. This is a thread about 'controversial' opinions. I accept that my opinion will be controversial to anyone of a religious persuasion, and even some who are not.
    Sorry son, the onus is on you. You made a claim that God not existing is a solid fact.

    Sorry, 'dad', but I did no such thing. I said quote:People who believe in a fairytale god who listens to their prayers (and acts on them) are delusional.

    There is hard evidence that the above type of god does not exist, and none at all to the contrary, yet many believe he/it does exist. That is a delusion. DELUSION:implies an inability to distinguish between what is real and what only seems to be real.

    You claim that something is fact. Not that another belief cannot be fact but that your own is. Put up or shut up.

    Wrong again. You got it the wrong way round.
    Ah yes, asking someone to look up the meaning of word deluded? Maybe look up arrogance yourself.

    Ah yes, arrogance, always the accusation levelled at any atheist. More noble to have 'faith', apparently, than to question.
    Religious people being stupid? I was unaware that theism/atheism was a predicate for intelligence or common sense. How about we look at some religious people who were intelligent? Isaac Newton, Louis Pasteur, Alexander Fleming. All men i would consider highly intelligent but also theists. There really is no link between intelligence and religion. A theist can be just as stupid or intelligent as an atheist.
    sleepy wrote:
    To say religious beliefs are stupid doesn't mean that those who hold them are stupid in every fashion, just that when it comes to that issue, they're behaving in a stupid fashion.

    I'd agree with sleepy here more or less.


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    #836
    brow_601
    Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭brow_601


    thelastangryman wrote: »

    Trans gender people are still their original sex regardless of how they look.


    i couldn't agree more, xx = women, xy = men, end of story


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    #837
    Goat Mouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭Goat Mouth


    I think people with Mullet haircuts should be shot!


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    #838
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    brow_601 wrote: »
    i couldn't agree more, xx = women, xy = men, end of story

    apparently not
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex


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    #839
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Archeron wrote: »
    Brian Cowen killed the dinosaurs. (and then ate them)

    yeah, all of them by the looks of it.


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    #840
    Pigman II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,921 ✭✭✭✭Pigman II


    Kenyans and Pakistani's are savages.


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    #841
    singloud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 369 ✭✭singloud


    *sighs*
    aidan24326 wrote: »
    Nowt controversial about that opinion someuser. Would consider that near enough to a solid fact in fairness.

    aidan24326 wrote: »

    There is hard evidence that the above type of god does not exist, and none at all to the contrary, yet many believe he/it does exist. That is a delusion. DELUSION:implies an inability to distinguish between what is real and what only seems to be real.
    What evidence would that be? The fact that there is no evidence to support God existing?
    There is no evidence whatsoever to support God existing. And none at proving he doesn;t exist.


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    Ah yes, arrogance, always the accusation levelled at any atheist. More noble to have 'faith', apparently, than to question.
    My favorite part. Yes every atheist automatically gets accused of arrogance.
    No. it has nothing to do with the fact you are an atheist and more to do with the fact that you think of theists as stupider and beneath you and taking no consideration of their beliefs. I'm guessing 60% of the people I'm friends with are atheists. This I have no problem with as there are as many different types of atheists as there theists. I despise fundamentalists who act as if their belief is superior to that of everyone else. Likewise I despise bigoted atheists. Last girlfriend I had was an atheist (as opposed to agnostic or someone who just didn't think about it). I never accused her of arrogance as she wasn't an arrogant person. You can be atheist and still have an open mind in accepting other peoples beliefs.

    I;ve met theists with similar mindsets to you: "He's accusing me of arrogance because I believe in God." No you silly fundamentalist. It's because of the way you carry yourself and are filled with self righteousness. Not because of your religion.


    Could it possibly be that I'm accusing you of arrogance because of your personality and not your belief system? Oh no. I'm a theist and therefore blindly follow faith. Despite me stating that I think there is no evidence for or against God's existance (questioning the blind faith of other theists) I am saying it's more noble to have faith.
    Hardly. I'm saying maybe show a bit of consideration towards other peoples beliefs.


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