20% foreign people in Ireland now - highest in Europe

darkman2 · 27-09-2007 12:00AM #1

Well, we kind of knew, but its been confirmed by the CSO that 20% of the population here is now foreign. We believed we would learn from other countries mistakes in relation to integration etc but now we have raced past them and find ourselves in a difficult position that they are not even in yet! In the context of the country's practically first 'black school' open in Balbriggan (descibed in the Senate today as 'apparthied') we now have major questions that we must answer and decisions we have to take - hard ones for lefties IMO - if we are not to see potentially disastrous societal problems here in the next decade. The liberals were warned - the silent majority kept silently thinking it and now we have sleeped walked into a situation where I believe the social cohesion of this country is now being put at risk.

I read a letter in a local newsletter today from a girl in secondary school countering accusations that her classmates were racist to a black student and would not associate or talk to her. The liberals in the area hopped on it as usual. But in her letter she said this was complete rubbish and the OPPOSITE was the case. She claimed the sizeable foreign students in the secondary school were not associating with the Irish but rather just forming a large ethnic group that would not even talk to the Irish students.

Perhaps a small localised issues but the alarm bells are starting to ring now with me. We have gone too far and the hens are quickly coming home to roost - even the bleeding heart liberals are quiet now - which seems to suggest they recognise that we are heading for trouble faster then any of our EU neighbours.

Though I would of thought Kevin Myers rumblings every week in the independent about the need to quickly get our thumbs out of our ass by articulating what we all privately know is warning enough.

How much trouble are we honestly in? And what realistically can we do with enough firmness to slow this tide which simply cannot continue?

This is an issue that requires urgency.

P.S no racism please.

Blackjack · 27-09-2007 12:04AM

Let me be the first...

RACIALIST!!;)

eoin5 · 27-09-2007 12:09AM

It would be better if Kevin Myers didnt say anything about this. As soon as he suggests we should do something it instantly looses all credability.

daniel3982 · 27-09-2007 12:10AM

I'll soon be adding to it, as a British citizen whatever that means, both my parents are Irish; albeit from the North so I'm not sure where that leaves me as a statistic. Irish name, Irish looking, Feel Irish but speak with an English accent and carry a brown passport instead of a blue one :-/

Ekancone · 27-09-2007 12:13AM

Things will be slowing down, economically speaking, in Ireland over the next decade. With that most of the 'foreigners' will head off to wherever the money/jobs are. I dont see the big deal really.

Mr.Nice Guy · 27-09-2007 12:33AM

People like the OP miss the point. This is the EU's doing and this part of the European project.

When the EU constitution - now floating around under a new name - gets ratified then we will see a new voting system called "qualified majority voting" which will determine Ireland's levels of immigration...

"a qualified majority shall be defined as at least 55% of the members of the council, comprising at least 15 of them and representing member states comprising at least 65% of the population of the Union."

France and Germany combined make up 40% and the smaller nations will do whatever the big two ask of them. That means issues like immigration, and even justice issues, will be left to the EU and not ourselves.

The Dutch, who you'll remember rejected the constitution in '05, recently were told they would NOT get another vote on future reforms - even though polls show most Dutch people to be opposed to the EU's plans. Gordon Brown in the UK is refusing to give them a vote too. Here in Ireland we might have one due to the constitutional requirement for a referendum but most parties will campaign for a Yes vote and as Nice showed in '01, if they don't get the right result the first time then they'll force a second vote.

Ireland is not a net contributor to the EU - yet - and this is why we have become the dumping ground for foreign nationals that the other nation states don't want. What does it really matter about immigration levels when our sovereignty is gradually being eroded away to make room for a federal United States of Europe?

The people of Ireland have allowed us to get into this precarious situation. This is the other side to our "economic propserity". Judas had economic prosperity too when he got his thirty pieces of silver.

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

Joeyjoejoe43 · 27-09-2007 12:44AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

I agree, muppets...

admiralofthefleet · 27-09-2007 12:46AM

i think we will see that as the economy slows down so to will immigration into ireland.

DonJose · 27-09-2007 12:48AM

darkman2 wrote:

Well, we kind of knew, but its been confirmed by the CSO that 20% of the population here is now foreign.

I'd say it could be higher than that. There are little if no immigrations controls at Dublin airport, which receives roughly over 2,000,000 incomers each month, the immigration control officer on that David McWilliams program said they turn away 400 immigrants each month, "Sure we can't turn them all away" says he

When translated means we have feck all room to house the illegals. Typical goverment planning.

DonJose · 27-09-2007 12:51AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

Joeyjoejoe43 wrote:

I agree, muppets...

I agree too, well done you pack of muppets.

DonJose · 27-09-2007 12:53AM

admiralofthefleet wrote:

i think we will see that as the economy slows down so to will immigration into ireland.

Immigration will slow down but the immigrants will still trickle in and take more jobs from the Irish. I did the same when I moved to Germany in the early 1990's. I took a job a German wouldn't take and there were 4 million unemployed at that time. Thank fúck I'm self employed

dragonkin · 27-09-2007 12:55AM

any link to this report?

meglome · 27-09-2007 01:18AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

In fairness I think that so many people are in debt up to their ears it wasn't that surprising they didn't chance it and vote for someone else.

Mr.Nice Guy · 27-09-2007 01:51AM

meglome wrote:

In fairness I think that so many people are in debt up to their ears it wasn't that surprising they didn't chance it and vote for someone else.

Well in most countries if there was a health service that was falling apart with hospitals closing and patients forced to make long journeys to hospitals miles away etc., as well as a leader of the country that had a stench of corruption hanging over him, then the government of the day would face a backlash.

We're not most countries though. Sure last week people attending the Mahon Tribunal applauded when Ahern said he couldn't remember what he had done with his money. THEY APPLAUDED.

If that isn't evidence that we're well and truly f*cked as a nation then I don't know what is.

All those people who gave up their lives so that we Irish could have freedom and look what the end result turned out to be. A soulless corporate bitch of a country that bends over whenever Brussels demands and which has a culture of corruption that most voters will happily stomach.

This is not the Ireland I was told about when younger. This is some perverse bastardised version.

DonJose · 27-09-2007 02:01AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Well in most countries if there was a health service that was falling apart with hospitals closing and patients forced to make long journeys to hospitals miles away etc., as well as a leader of the country that had a stench of corruption hanging over him, then the government of the day would face a backlash.

We're not most countries though. Sure last week people attending the Mahon Tribunal applauded when Ahern said he couldn't remember what he had done with his money. THEY APPLAUDED.

If that isn't evidence that we're well and truly f*cked as a nation then I don't know what is.

All those people who gave up their lives so that we Irish could have freedom and look what the end result turned out to be. A soulless corporate bitch of a country that bends over whenever Brussels demands and which has a culture of corruption that most voters will happily stomach.

This is not the Ireland I was told about when younger. This is some perverse bastardised version.

Great post. I also don't understand the thinking in this country. Luckily I work from home but theres people who spend hours commuting each day, they pay €1.90 to use a 60kph motorway thats already been paid for. The health system is in shambles, theres people dying of cancer while the equipment to treat it lies unused in private hospitals which in the future will be built on public land.

North&South · 27-09-2007 05:20AM

You know, we too will shortly be adding to your 'foreigner' import problems. (Even though hubbys family is Irish & all over here in the UK!)

But I sit on a few committees around the town here in Blackpool & have seen the changes in the last couple of years regarding immigrants - polish in particular.
We now have a Polish PACT (Police and Community Together forum, meets monthly) We have a Polish centre to advise on housing, welfare, employment.
We have numerous Polish delis & cafes (quite cool). In 2006 the official figure for Polish residents in Blackpool alone was 38,000. And this year there are even more. I had a trip into town last week & when I got home, I realised that apart from the tram ticket man and the Marks & Spencer lady, I hadn't spoken to any other British person all day!

But I'm still quite concerned about the numbers of immigrants who are here using services that they have not contributed for... Unemployment Benefits, Health Service & Housing in particular. The numbers of immigrants signing on have meant a change for our jobcentres - there are now 2 offices here - one for the UK folks, one for the non-nationals. (And the queues are huge)
Our local people have found it nigh on impossible to find employment this year, (usually way easy in the holiday season) because of the large numbers of foreigners who work for less money - they will work for less than national minimum (but try to prove it & you have difficulty :rolleyes: ) A friend of ours was packed and ready to move into a council house - she was stopped because a Polish family was in 'urgent need'. She's still waiting & has been on the list now for over 4 years - 2 kids, a 2 bed 3rd floor flat, riddled with damp.

I'd like to think that people from other countries moved abroad in the way we are planning to move to Ireland... we are selling our house here, renting in Ireland until such time as we can buy our own - we'll have a sizeable sum in the bank, Hubby has a job to come to, daughter will find one asap, although under NO circumstances will she be claiming unemployment benefits, we have enough to support her until she's sorted. Our medical will be private & again paid for.
Is it right that we move to YOUR country & then claim favours because we can't support ourselves? No!

And that's why I don't think it's right for anyone else to do so - regardless of what country you are from, or what country you are moving to.

NB: The above are my own thoughts & opinions & not meant to generalize about the Polish, just thoughts based upon my own experiences & outlook.

SimpleSam06 · 27-09-2007 07:14AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Ireland is not a net contributor to the EU - yet - and this is why we have become the dumping ground for foreign nationals that the other nation states don't want.

Have you got any evidence to back up this nonsensical piece of tripe? Net contributions vs immigrant quotas, that sort of thing? I would have thought that the last thing the EU wanted to do would be to put extra burdens on the economy of member states unable as yet to contribute.

EDIT: Oh yes, and can someone please link to this CSO report?

patto_chan · 27-09-2007 07:58AM

I can only find 2006 statistics on their website.
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popnclassbyreligionandnationality2006.htm

This suggests that about 10% are non-nationals - 419,733 out of total population of 4,172,013.

Where did the '20%' come from?

Even if you throw in the 45,597 who are 'not stated/no nationality' the percentage is 11.1%.

0ubliette · 27-09-2007 08:05AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

People like the OP miss the point. This is the EU's doing and this part of the European project.

When the EU constitution - now floating around under a new name - gets ratified then we will see a new voting system called "qualified majority voting" which will determine Ireland's levels of immigration...

"a qualified majority shall be defined as at least 55% of the members of the council, comprising at least 15 of them and representing member states comprising at least 65% of the population of the Union."

France and Germany combined make up 40% and the smaller nations will do whatever the big two ask of them. That means issues like immigration, and even justice issues, will be left to the EU and not ourselves.

The Dutch, who you'll remember rejected the constitution in '05, recently were told they would NOT get another vote on future reforms - even though polls show most Dutch people to be opposed to the EU's plans. Gordon Brown in the UK is refusing to give them a vote too. Here in Ireland we might have one due to the constitutional requirement for a referendum but most parties will campaign for a Yes vote and as Nice showed in '01, if they don't get the right result the first time then they'll force a second vote.

Ireland is not a net contributor to the EU - yet - and this is why we have become the dumping ground for foreign nationals that the other nation states don't want. What does it really matter about immigration levels when our sovereignty is gradually being eroded away to make room for a federal United States of Europe?

The people of Ireland have allowed us to get into this precarious situation. This is the other side to our "economic propserity". Judas had economic prosperity too when he got his thirty pieces of silver.

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

Good post, interesting, i hadnt heard of the EU treaty before. Also fully agree with the re-electionf of FF. I said it back then, if we vote them back in, we deserve everything we get. Well dont blame me, cause i didnt fcuking vote for them!

um7y1h83ge06nx · 27-09-2007 08:20AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Well in most countries if there was a health service that was falling apart with hospitals closing and patients forced to make long journeys to hospitals miles away etc., as well as a leader of the country that had a stench of corruption hanging over him, then the government of the day would face a backlash.

We're not most countries though. Sure last week people attending the Mahon Tribunal applauded when Ahern said he couldn't remember what he had done with his money. THEY APPLAUDED.

If that isn't evidence that we're well and truly f*cked as a nation then I don't know what is.

All those people who gave up their lives so that we Irish could have freedom and look what the end result turned out to be. A soulless corporate bitch of a country that bends over whenever Brussels demands and which has a culture of corruption that most voters will happily stomach.

This is not the Ireland I was told about when younger. This is some perverse bastardised version.

[RANT]Well said. If Bertie and Co. said they would round us up and gas us we probably would still vote for them.

I'm hanging on for the next Daniel O' Connell or Micheal Collins to come along and lead the people against these fúckers.

Sounds like a gross exaggeration, but I'm truly sick of all the corruption and the fact that the Dáil looks down on us with a huge air of arrogance.

In my eyes some of them (the late CJ Haughey for example) are traitors and should be severely dealt with by the people.[/Rant]

skywalker · 27-09-2007 08:26AM

North&South wrote:

You know, we too will shortly be adding to your 'foreigner' import problems. (Even though hubbys family is Irish & all over here in the UK!)

But I sit on a few committees around the town here in Blackpool & have seen the changes in the last couple of years regarding immigrants - polish in particular.
We now have a Polish PACT (Police and Community Together forum, meets monthly) We have a Polish centre to advise on housing, welfare, employment.
We have numerous Polish delis & cafes (quite cool). In 2006 the official figure for Polish residents in Blackpool alone was 38,000. And this year there are even more. I had a trip into town last week & when I got home, I realised that apart from the tram ticket man and the Marks & Spencer lady, I hadn't spoken to any other British person all day!

But I'm still quite concerned about the numbers of immigrants who are here using services that they have not contributed for... Unemployment Benefits, Health Service & Housing in particular. The numbers of immigrants signing on have meant a change for our jobcentres - there are now 2 offices here - one for the UK folks, one for the non-nationals. (And the queues are huge)
Our local people have found it nigh on impossible to find employment this year, (usually way easy in the holiday season) because of the large numbers of foreigners who work for less money - they will work for less than national minimum (but try to prove it & you have difficulty :rolleyes: ) A friend of ours was packed and ready to move into a council house - she was stopped because a Polish family was in 'urgent need'. She's still waiting & has been on the list now for over 4 years - 2 kids, a 2 bed 3rd floor flat, riddled with damp.

I'd like to think that people from other countries moved abroad in the way we are planning to move to Ireland... we are selling our house here, renting in Ireland until such time as we can buy our own - we'll have a sizeable sum in the bank, Hubby has a job to come to, daughter will find one asap, although under NO circumstances will she be claiming unemployment benefits, we have enough to support her until she's sorted. Our medical will be private & again paid for.
Is it right that we move to YOUR country & then claim favours because we can't support ourselves? No!

And that's why I don't think it's right for anyone else to do so - regardless of what country you are from, or what country you are moving to.

NB: The above are my own thoughts & opinions & not meant to generalize about the Polish, just thoughts based upon my own experiences & outlook.

Great post, wish everyone thought like you.

ejmaztec · 27-09-2007 08:35AM

So, what would Ireland be like now, had it not joined the EU back in '73? I think that it would be pretty much the same, where there were more donkeys than tractors, less tarmacced roads, more emigration, zero immigration. The only thing that would not have changed would have been the supply of brown envelopes. Politicians made money even when there wasn't any.

TwoShedsJackson · 27-09-2007 08:43AM

So where's a link to this report then?

Kevin Myers should be weighing in on this soon enough anyway, he only has three topics - Muslims and how they're all terrorist, darkies coming over here taking our jobs and our women, and the Black & Tans.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 27-09-2007 09:47AM

North&South wrote:

You know, we too will shortly be adding to your 'foreigner' import problems. (Even though hubbys family is Irish & all over here in the UK!)

But I sit on a few committees around the town here in Blackpool & have seen the changes in the last couple of years regarding immigrants - polish in particular.
We now have a Polish PACT (Police and Community Together forum, meets monthly) We have a Polish centre to advise on housing, welfare, employment.
We have numerous Polish delis & cafes (quite cool). In 2006 the official figure for Polish residents in Blackpool alone was 38,000. And this year there are even more. I had a trip into town last week & when I got home, I realised that apart from the tram ticket man and the Marks & Spencer lady, I hadn't spoken to any other British person all day!

But I'm still quite concerned about the numbers of immigrants who are here using services that they have not contributed for... Unemployment Benefits, Health Service & Housing in particular. The numbers of immigrants signing on have meant a change for our jobcentres - there are now 2 offices here - one for the UK folks, one for the non-nationals. (And the queues are huge)
Our local people have found it nigh on impossible to find employment this year, (usually way easy in the holiday season) because of the large numbers of foreigners who work for less money - they will work for less than national minimum (but try to prove it & you have difficulty :rolleyes: ) A friend of ours was packed and ready to move into a council house - she was stopped because a Polish family was in 'urgent need'. She's still waiting & has been on the list now for over 4 years - 2 kids, a 2 bed 3rd floor flat, riddled with damp.

I'd like to think that people from other countries moved abroad in the way we are planning to move to Ireland... we are selling our house here, renting in Ireland until such time as we can buy our own - we'll have a sizeable sum in the bank, Hubby has a job to come to, daughter will find one asap, although under NO circumstances will she be claiming unemployment benefits, we have enough to support her until she's sorted. Our medical will be private & again paid for.
Is it right that we move to YOUR country & then claim favours because we can't support ourselves? No!

And that's why I don't think it's right for anyone else to do so - regardless of what country you are from, or what country you are moving to.

NB: The above are my own thoughts & opinions & not meant to generalize about the Polish, just thoughts based upon my own experiences & outlook.

Nice post, but your going to encounter the very same problems here.

Me for instance. I've done 22yrs in the Defence Forces and for the last few had planned on retiring at 21 yrs (with pension) and setting myself up with a taxi to suppliment my pension. As I come from an IT section I'm also qualified for other work too and if I was in dire straits security work would have been another option.

So where do I find myself now?.. Well I'm still in the Defence Forces, I studied for and passed my S.P.V.S. (taxi) test and worked it for a short time. But its not viable anymore due to the number of (mostly Africans) immigrants licenced and working it now. So I looked at the IT sector, same problem there but with East Europeans working for a salery I couldn't possibly live on. So I'm stuck in the army and am genuinely scared of what the future holds for me and my children.

Here's another. My family have lived in Ballymun since it 1969. We lived in the 'flats first then in the 80's got a house in Poppintree, its a three bed.

Due to unfortunete circunstances my younger brother and my sister broke up with their partners. My brother & sister both have one child each. And all living with my parents in the three bed house.

All was looking rosie with the Ballymun regeneration project, but as new apartments and house's became availably both my brother and sister was pushed further and further back on the waiting list as immigrants where given priority on availably housing.

Now my brother, sister and my parents future is as uncertain as mine.

Both are working fulltime in jobs under threat from foreign migrant workers willing to under cut their wages.

My advice would be don't come to Ireland thinking its any better than you have it there, its not.

mickoneill30 · 27-09-2007 10:05AM

Mairt wrote:

So where do I find myself now?.. Well I'm still in the Defence Forces, I studied for and passed my S.P.V.S. (taxi) test and worked it for a short time. But its not viable anymore due to the number of (mostly Africans) immigrants licenced and working it now. So I looked at the IT sector, same problem there but with East Europeans working for a salery I couldn't possibly live on. So I'm stuck in the army and am genuinely scared of what the future holds for me and my children.

I'm in IT too. Have been for 15 years. I've no problem with immigrants working for a salary I couldn't live on. I'm about to start a new job much closer to home to get rid of my commute. I was looking for about 3 months and being very picky about what interviews I went to. By the way, I'm nothing special in IT. There are a hell of a lot of low paying jobs advertised on the jobs pages but ignore those. You'll see jobs advertised for €20K -> €30K when they should be way more. People will take those jobs but the employer is getting what they pay for (i.e. either someone who's got little experience or someone who just needs any job while they're looking for a better one). If you're anyway halfway decent you'll be on a lot more. If you're not in a hurry go for the bigger paying jobs. You'll get one after a couple of months.

I have been contemplating going down the taxi job route. My brother started working as a taxi driver last year and by doing the calculations I could live on what he's earning with no probs, (I'm married with mortgage and my wife is working too in an average paying job). My only problem is I'm not a people person (I know a lot of taxi drivers aren't anyway

)and it'd probably do my head in so that's whats kept me away, the hours too I suppose.

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 27-09-2007 10:25AM

20%? That means that 5 of the previous posters in this thread (out of 25 posters) are foreign. My money is on people like 'Mickoneill' - obviously trying too hard with the fake irish name.

cjt156 · 27-09-2007 10:27AM

Well I'm a "muppet" who did vote for the current government (except for the limp-dick-Greens). Mainly because I couldn't in my wildest dreams imagine Enda (highlights) Kenny and Pat (pompous windbag) Rabbitte running the country any better.

And the only comprehensive official survey of the Irish population is the census, which I believe put the number of ethnic non-Irish at 10% (I'm trawling my memory - I'll go look it up now)

SimpleSam06 · 27-09-2007 10:30AM

Roundtower2 wrote:

20%? That means that 5 of the previous posters in this thread (out of 25 posters) are foreign. My money is on people like 'Mickoneill' - obviously trying too hard with the fake irish name.

Definetely something suspect with that "report". I vote that either the report gets produced or the thread gets locked.

mickoneill30 · 27-09-2007 10:33AM

Roundtower2 wrote:

20%? That means that 5 of the previous posters in this thread (out of 25 posters) are foreign. My money is on people like 'Mickoneill' - obviously trying too hard with the fake irish name.

Yeah trying so hard that I've posted over 600 posts to build up my reputation in preparation for this thread. That's planning for ya. Mick O'Neill is such an uncommon name in Ireland. I must be fake. Muppet. Just because I don't post something negative doesn't mean I'm foreign.

Terry · 27-09-2007 10:58AM

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Definetely something suspect with that "report". I vote that either the report gets produced or the thread gets locked.

I'm sorry.
You didn't vote FF, so your vote doesn't count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40U063Oh83c

I often wonder what the British, Americans, Australians, German, French etc. thought of the Irish pre 1990's.

Mickoneill, please turn on your sarcasm detector.

cjt156 · 27-09-2007 11:13AM

Terry wrote:

I often wonder what the British, Americans, Australians, German, French etc. thought of the Irish pre 1990's.

I reckon they thought we were a load of poor, humble drunks. Now they think we're rich, arrogant drunks. That's progress, see!

20% foreign people in Ireland now - highest in Europe

Comments