Final table situation, player requests other players to move around?

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 3:57pm #1

This popped up last night at the FT of Veras game,

Im drawn in seat 4, seat 5 and 6 have been knocked out.

Seat 1 requests that we remove the mid empty seats and that I pull around so that everyone can spread out.

I refuse to move from my assigned spot. He complains that he cant see seat 8 or 9 and I retort that its his luck of the draw. He is none too impressed with my refusal to move.

Personally I like to be angled to the table. I always try to avoid mid table. 2/3 or 8/9 are my preferred at a 10 handed cash game.

From seat 4, I angle myself towards the centre of the table, that means my eyes are focussed towards the middle, I can raise my right hand and rest my head/protect my face from those to my right when im in a pot. This makes me more comfortable and makes it easier for me to hide my sick tells. If I move to mid table I am giving up some of my advantage and comfort zone.

Thoughts on the whole situation? I feel I was within my rights to refuse and would personally refuse to move again in the same situation arose.

Am I out of order?

Hitman Actual · 20-08-2007 4:05pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

This popped up last night at the FT of Veras game,

Im drawn in seat 4, seat 5 and 6 have been knocked out.

Seat 1 requests that we remove the mid empty seats and that I pull around so that everyone can spread out.

I refuse to move from my assigned spot. He complains that he cant see seat 8 or 9 and I retort that its his luck of the draw. He is none too impressed with my refusal to move.

Personally I like to be angled to the table. I always try to avoid mid table. 2/3 or 8/9 are my preferred at a 10 handed cash game.

From seat 4, I angle myself towards the centre of the table, that means my eyes are focussed towards the middle, I can raise my right hand and rest my head/protect my face from those to my right when im in a pot. This makes me more comfortable and makes it easier for me to hide my sick tells. If I move to mid table I am giving up some of my advantage and comfort zone.

Thoughts on the whole situation? I feel I was within my rights to refuse and would personally refuse to move again in the same situation arose.

Am I out of order?

You're within your rights to stay, but I think you're out of order. I think it's basic table manners to move around and allow seat 1 to see the table. There's nothing worse than being stuck in seat 1/9 at a final table. If the situations were reversed, you'd like other players to move around, I think?

5starpool · 20-08-2007 4:05pm

Technically you were within your rights, but I think you were wrong not to move around.

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 4:08pm

lenny_leonard wrote:

If the situations were reversed, you'd like other players to move around, I think?

fair point - personally id never ask and if refused I couldnt see myself getting stroppy over it.

why should i give up my comfort zone?

kryogen · 20-08-2007 4:09pm

you can refuse if you want yes, you are within your rights, but to be honest if i was in this situation and a guy refused to move so that everybody culd have some more space id probably call him a nit lol:D

unless the dealer/TD asks you to move i dont think you have to anyway! plus you probably tilted the guy a little by your refusal as im sure he now thinks your an a** h***

nh,wp...

LuckyLloyd · 20-08-2007 4:09pm

This post has been deleted.

Hitman Actual · 20-08-2007 4:15pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

why should i give up my comfort zone?

If it's really going to affect your game, then don't move, I suppose. I've just never seen a situation where someone wouldn't move. Generally players seem to spread out naturally as others get knocked out, in my experience.

bohsman · 20-08-2007 4:24pm

Sitting in seat 4 on a 9 handed table you should be in the centre of the table anyway, seat 5 should be directly facing the dealer.

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 4:29pm

bohsman wrote:

Sitting in seat 4 on a 9 handed table you should be in the centre of the table anyway, seat 5 should be directly facing the dealer.

yes but im not exactly in the middle of the table as i was requested to do. from seat 4 I can angle myself slightly.

I find it somewhat odd, that when playing for a 4k first prize that people would readily move away from their comfort zone and in doing so give up what they deem to be some of their advantage in order to accommodate another player moving towards his comfort zone and in doing so assist him in gaining an advantage. It just doesn't make sense to me.

thoughts on this perspective?

opr · 20-08-2007 4:30pm

Man your an *ssh*le.

BTW - I don't know you , have never met or played with you this was just my feelings while i was reading this.

opr

mrflash · 20-08-2007 4:32pm

i think you should've moved around, for your own sake. firstly its a final table, its not like the tourney has just started and some guys are probably getting a little tired, you should show a bit of respect to fellow poker players who have played well enough to be at a final table.
secondly, by not moving around, you have annoyed probably everyone at the table, and made yourself enemy no.1.
thirdly, it will happen some day that you are the one looking for a bit more room, and one of these guys who holds a grudge will be there to make sure you remain uncomfortable.

Theresalwaysone · 20-08-2007 4:39pm

You were within you rights not to move and I dont think that you not moving makes you an a$$hole although for everyones comfort and to keep the atmosphere of a good game so friendly I would have moved.

Now if this was the WSOP or a big money tournament and not a friendly birthday bash for a stalwart of the irish scene I would have stayed put if I felt it gave me an advantage and kept me comfortable.

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 4:39pm

opr wrote:

Man your an *ssh*le.

lol and you must be what 13? 14 maybe?

mrflash wrote:

i think you should've moved around, for your own sake. firstly its a final table, its not like the tourney has just started and some guys are probably getting a little tired, you should show a bit of respect to fellow poker players who have played well enough to be at a final table.

I am tired also - ahy should i give up my comfort for the benefit of others?

mrflash wrote:

secondly, by not moving around, you have annoyed probably everyone at the table, and made yourself enemy no.1.

that doens't really concern me - im just gonna play my cards.

mrflash wrote:

thirdly, it will happen some day that you are the one looking for a bit more room, and one of these guys who holds a grudge will be there to make sure you remain uncomfortable.

no it wont. I dont recall ever looking for more room or asking somebody to move at the poker table when it wasnt an issue of seat balancing. I will frequently ask for a table to be balanced if i feel people have more than their fair share. fwiw, I feel having made the ft a player should get as comfortable as he can and focus on his cards and the players around him - if he is concerning himself with others luxuries or what not then he isnt in the correct frame of mind.

RoundTower · 20-08-2007 4:42pm

agree with everyone else, you should move and you are being a dick if you don't.

bill_ashmount · 20-08-2007 4:43pm

opr wrote:

Man your an *ssh*le.

BTW - I don't know you , have never met or played with you this was just my feelings while i was reading this.

opr

No offence, but that's exactly what my first thought was as well.

sumoward · 20-08-2007 4:46pm

I was watching this from the "rail". I know the guy who asked and he is a decent fellow.

By not moving you kept to your comfort zone which adds to your game. Watching him you also gained some small advantage in refusing as you irritated him and it did effect his play(IMHO).

In terms of gamesmanship you were correct, in terms of courtesy not so correct!

Poker is ultimately about winning so sacrificing courtesy for a victory is purely your call.

In terms of pure gamesmanship is there any advantage in being accommodating to a player in that they might play "lightly" against you.

opr · 20-08-2007 4:49pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

lol and you must be what 13? 14 maybe?

You asked for comments on what people thought of your action in this situation.

I thought it was representative of someone who is an a**ho**. In regards to your comments can you please refrain from personal insults please. I was giving comment on your post not on you so try and do the same.

Opr

Fatboydim · 20-08-2007 4:49pm

Agree with OPR and MR Flash. My first thought were A*hole.

But I'd also be concerned that you seem to be so affected by something as trivial as moving over a few inches. Seriously you need to work on that. It's like someone not playing well because they left their lucky card capper at home. I'm sure it's a genuine concern for you, but of course you are going to have to get used to playing from any and every seat.

And most importantly as Mr Flash pointed out - you can make yourself a target unnecessarily.

kincsem · 20-08-2007 4:50pm

I think you should even out the spacing, as long as you are not asked to move well away from your original position (say three places). I've never heard of a player refusing to help.

I was in seat 1 in the Irish Open. It was a nightmare. I would have won the tourney easily with a good draw.

Mr.Plough · 20-08-2007 4:53pm

ballspace >> giving away tells

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 4:55pm

opr wrote:

In regards to your comments can you please refrain from personal insults please. I was giving comment on your post not on you so try and do the same.

Opr

Am I missing something here? you said "man your an asshole" and you are now asking me to refrain from insulting you??

would the movers care to address this point?

BCB wrote:

I find it somewhat odd, that when playing for a 4k first prize that people would readily move away from their comfort zone and in doing so give up what they deem to be some of their advantage in order to accommodate another player moving towards his comfort zone and in doing so assist him in gaining an advantage. It just doesn't make sense to me.

FBD wrote:

something as trivial as moving over a few inches.

Len, he was asking for 2 seats to be removed and for me to move across, I was not been asked to move a "few inches"

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 4:57pm

kincsem wrote:

I think you should even out the spacing, as long as you are not asked to move well away from your original position (say three places). I've never heard of a player refusing to help.

As in my previous post - he was asking for two seats to be removed and for me to move across. This wasnt a 6 inch arse shuffle.

opr · 20-08-2007 5:03pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

Am I missing something here? you said "man your an asshole" and you are now asking me to refrain from insulting you??

opr wrote:

Man your an *ssh*le.

BTW - I don't know you , have never met or played with you this was just my feelings while i was reading this.

opr

I think you choose to ignore that i premised this statement with my added commments. This was not a reflection on you but on what i had read of your actions and this is clearly shown in the above quote.

It also seems i am not the only person of this view.

Opr

Wombatman · 20-08-2007 5:04pm

Moving seats together or taking out would give room for others to move without you having to do a thing.
A dick would do this without reason. Your reasons were sound if a little thin.
Probably as thin as those of person who requested movement.

kincsem · 20-08-2007 5:04pm

You asked for an opinion, but you have not yet (as far as I can see) said how many players were at the table, and in which seats. You said seats 5 and 6 were empty. I would expect you to move one place to your left (but I don't have full info).

mdwexford · 20-08-2007 5:07pm

Bad table manners imo.

I understand your points for not moving but unless it was someone i didnt like and i was deliberately being a *****r in retaliation for something they had done earlier i wouldnt mind pushing around.

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 5:11pm

kincsem wrote:

You asked for an opinion, but you have not yet (as far as I can see) said how many players were at the table, and in which seats. You said seats 5 and 6 were empty. I would expect you to move one place to your left (but I don't have full info).

we were 7 handed - seats 5 and 6 were empty. he asked for seats 5 and 6 to be removed, for me to move across towards the player in seat 7 so that he could swing out to c. where seat 2 was and have a better view on things.

5starpool · 20-08-2007 5:17pm

Are you saying Noel that if you were in seat 5 you would have been less likely to win? I generally agree with your preference for an angle seat, but in this instance I don't think there is a lot of difference. Chances are that none of the players there were skillful enough to tell by having a better look at your face what you held anyhow, and if they did this is your issue. This isn't a dig at other players as 99.9% of players are not that skillful, including me.

Also, you asked for opinions, and you got them, most people disagree with your actions. No one died though as a result.

mdwexford · 20-08-2007 5:18pm

Did you know the guy Noel and would it have made a difference if you did??

Waylander · 20-08-2007 5:19pm

I can see your point BCB but I think I would have moved. Having said that, if it was an mtt and I had been playing for hours, and someone refused to move in that situation, it could set them tilting, which is of course to your advantage. Its a bit similar to thrash talking and where you decide you draw the line. For example Tony G is an asshole, but his mouthing has been known to put players oin tilt, so he thinks it is worthwhile.

Fatboydim · 20-08-2007 5:20pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

Len, he was asking for 2 seats to be removed and for me to move across, I was not been asked to move a "few inches"

LOL ok a couple of feet then

And we all know you're not like that really...

Lazare · 20-08-2007 5:22pm

Noel, is this one of those reverso threads? Are you the 'villain' here? Is a certain guy that was slated in another thread involved?

I just have a funny feeling your levelling us here.

I know a poster said he saw this, but it's possible he doesn't know you.

phantom_lord · 20-08-2007 5:23pm

opr wrote:

Man your an *ssh*le.

opr

just be polite and move like any normal person.

jbravado · 20-08-2007 5:25pm

mdwexford wrote:

Did you know the guy Noel and would it have made a difference if you did??

?

Fatboydim · 20-08-2007 5:28pm

Lazare wrote:

Noel, is this one of those reverso threads? Are you the 'villain' here? Is a certain guy that was slated in another thread involved?

I just have a funny feeling your levelling us here.

I know a poster said he saw this, but it's possible he doesn't know you.

That was my thought as well lol

RoundTower · 20-08-2007 5:29pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

why should i give up my comfort zone?

BigCityBanker wrote:

I am tired also - ahy should i give up my comfort for the benefit of others?

When you give up a tiny bit of your comfort to make other people more comfortable, it's called good manners. A bit like not grabbing the last piece of pie without offering other people first.

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 5:35pm

Lazare wrote:

Noel, is this one of those reverso threads? Are you the 'villain' here? Is a certain guy that was slated in another thread involved?

I just have a funny feeling your levelling us here.

I know a poster said he saw this, but it's possible he doesn't know you.

no i genuinely refused to move. I'm not an unreasonable individual, if somebody makes a reasonable request and I can entertain them then I will. I thought he was asking for a bit much at this juncture. Then when he started throwing a strop and being slightly obnoxious he wouldnt have moved me for all the rice in China. (at this point it was stubborness)

MD - Im pretty sure id have refused to move even if i knew the individual. There are 7 players left at this point. If there are less players and I can move to a position I deem to be as comfortable then Im sure I would move.

Dom - i dont think its less likely that i cash or my position alters if i change seat. BUT I can be sure of this. I dont want to take my mind from the game at hand by moving - likewise i dont think other players should take their eye off the ball by letting this upset them - on this basis i dont make such requests.

Ace2007 · 20-08-2007 5:36pm

interesting thread. so basically you didn't want to move and everyone else did - just wondering had you not been in the way, would you have protested against someone else moving if it meant you couldn't "protect [your] face from those to [your] right when [your] in a pot"? and would you be within you rights to prevent them moving?

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 5:40pm

Ace2007 wrote:

interesting thread. so basically you didn't want to move and everyone else did

are you for real? One individual asked to move, not the whole table.

Ace2007 wrote:

- just wondering had you not been in the way, would you have protested against someone else moving if it meant you couldn't "protect [your] face from those to [your] right when [your] in a pot"? and would you be within you rights to prevent them moving?

I would not have objected and I doubt very much if I chose to object if my objection would hold any ground.

Lazare · 20-08-2007 5:42pm

Ace2007 wrote:

interesting thread. so basically you didn't want to move and everyone else did - just wondering had you not been in the way, would you have protested against someone else moving if it meant you couldn't "protect [your] face from those to [your] right when [your] in a pot"? and would you be within you rights to prevent them moving?

There's a good question, have you been eating a lot of oily fish lately?

tricky D · 20-08-2007 5:44pm

p1ss poor manners imo, apart from not quite making sense on a few levels

Ace2007 · 20-08-2007 5:45pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

are you for real?

for some bizarre reason i thought there were 4 of yis left, don't ask me why i thought this....

shoutman · 20-08-2007 5:48pm

I also think that you should of just moved, and if I was the player who asked you to move I would of thought you were a right little so and so.

Its not a big deal to move around, its common courtesy and I think what you did was poor form.

cardshark202 · 20-08-2007 5:48pm

Just seen this now. You were being a total díckhead. No need for it.

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 5:48pm

tricky D wrote:

not quite making sense on a few levels

elaborate?

Captain Tom · 20-08-2007 5:49pm

as above.

sendic · 20-08-2007 5:53pm

why not remove seats 5 and 6 and have seats 7, 8 and 9 move closer to you? that way you don't have to move, seat 1 can now see whats going on and no loss of courtesy on your part...

mrflash · 20-08-2007 5:53pm

The thing here is that all replies are being answered in a 'i know i was right' fashion. The facts are that almost every reply says you should have moved. so the majority of people believe you were wrong not to move.

BigCityBanker · 20-08-2007 5:58pm

mrflash wrote:

The thing here is that all replies are being answered in a 'i know i was right' fashion.

well clearly if i didnt think that id have moved in a heartbeat last night.

kakak1 · 20-08-2007 5:59pm

BigCityBanker wrote:

I can raise my right hand and rest my head/protect my face from those to my right when im in a pot.

You must be afraid they'll recognise a Dickhead when they see one

Thoughts on the whole situation? I feel I was within my rights to refuse and would personally refuse to move again in the same situation arose.

And a stubborn one at that.

Am I out of order?

You asked the question and youv'e been given the answer by 90% of those who replied. You were wrong, you were ignorant, you lacked table etiquette and you are a selfish cnut. I'm not 13 / 14 but in my 50's. I hope I never meet you at a Poker table. I'd hate to be stranded on a desert island with you, first come first served. Have you no feelings for other humans, are you so self centered. Win at all cost and feck the begrudgers

HeeHawsCantona · 20-08-2007 6:00pm

LOL @ this thread

NH Noel WP

Final table situation, player requests other players to move around?

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