ATM Fraud

Dub13 · 20-12-2005 12:24pm #1

Listing to the radio last night and some chap was talking about getting done for 4K over last weekend.Thank god this has never happened to me but you can never be to safe so I think a thread on this issue can do no harm.

I would welcome any story's on how the banks deal with this when you bring it to there attention,how long for refund etc etc.

WHAT TO LOOK OUT FOR:

Any signs of tampering with the ATM, any signs of unusual or loose parts around the machine. Any suspicious perosns loitering in close proximity to the machine.

If you suspect a skimming crime is taking place, do not try to remove the device - it is potential evidence. Withdraw to a reasonable distance and call the Gardaí on 999 or 112.

Do not confront any suspects as these gangs have used violence previously including attacking police officers.

Examples of skimming devices seized by Gardaí:

seamus · 20-12-2005 12:44pm

That's mad, I've never seen ATMs that look like any of those devices, which is why I'm sure it catches so many people out. I'd know immediately if a BOI or AIB ATM had been tampered with, but I've not really used many of the others, so I'd assume they're "Just different".

Dub13 · 20-12-2005 12:51pm

The infamous Lebanese Loop.

A length of tape is inserted into the card slot. The customer inserts the card and the tape traps it. The criminal is standing behind the customer and when the machine refuses to give up the card and the customer is pressing various buttons the criminal will suggest they enter their pin number twice as this has happened to them. The customer does this watched by the criminal and when they don't receive their card back walk off to report it to the bank. The criminal removes the device and card and goes to other cash points to withdraw money.

ballooba · 20-12-2005 6:08pm

I especially like the sticker warning people about card fraud in the bottom right one.

Cabaal · 20-12-2005 11:28pm

ballooba wrote:

I especially like the sticker warning people about card fraud in the bottom right one.

nice touch alright :v:

Dub13 · 21-12-2005 3:19pm

One of the more sophisticated scams.

1 - ATM machine as usual?

2 - Is there an additional slot?

3 - A monitor and pamphlet holder at the side...nothing wrong

4 - Wait ..... Is it really a pamphlet holder

5 - False pamphlet box affixed to the ATM cubicle side

6 - Inside the "pamphlet box"

kc66 · 22-12-2005 5:16pm

Iv seen the Q asked a few times but not answered. What does the bank do if this happens to you? Will they cover the money taken? It is the machine they provide after all so I would expect they would be liable.

seamus · 22-12-2005 5:25pm

Anecdotal evidence suggests that if you use an ATM belonging to your own bank, they'll refund you, no problem. But if use an ATM belonging to another bank (e.g. using an AIB machine when you're a BOI customer), you'll have to fight to get your money back.

Can't give anything solid on this though.

d-arke · 22-12-2005 5:56pm

seamus wrote:

Anecdotal evidence suggests that if you use an ATM belonging to your own bank, they'll refund you, no problem. But if use an ATM belonging to another bank (e.g. using an AIB machine when you're a BOI customer), you'll have to fight to get your money back.

Can't give anything solid on this though.

Hi all,

I believe everyone should be reading this topic. Well done to the person who started it.:)

So, better tell my story:

As with every other Friday, I would phone up my BOI Banking 365 to check my account balance to make sure my wages were paid in properly. My balance wasn't what it should have been as it was down nearly 2k :eek: , I know its not a great deal of money, but when its half your account you kinda notice.

So I checked my recent transactions, and there was about 10 or so transactions from the previous Friday unexplainable from my point.:rolleyes: Talk about a shock to the system. I hung up and phoned again thinking I must have been hearing things!! I wasn't! :eek: Then I tried to remember, did I actually blow 2k in the past week:rolleyes: , I had spent a few hundred all right that week on various things, but not 2k.

I then of course raced to my local BOI branch to explain the situation, luckily the manager came out to help with the customer service queue and I was next in line, so went straight to the office. They printed up the recent transactions and I could tell them which ones I made and which ones I hadnt. They could tell me exactly where all the transactions occured, Each transaction was for a minimum of €100 to a max €300, often two or three a day. Mainly throughout Dublin, mostly southside. I live in North Dublin. I had used the AIB atm in Skerries the previous Friday night and withdraw €80, the print out the BOI bank gave me told me I withdrew another two €100 transaction in the southside area within half an hour

. Not true, I spent the rest of the night in the pub!!

So that was the start of the dirty thievery. I then had to report the matter to the local garda, write a statement to the bank explaining what happened (this was basically a few lines), and then had to wait about a month until I got my money back as it had to go through some department in head office. Though the reason I was waiting a month was because the incident happened in Skerries, my local garda station had to get in touch with the Skerries Garda to contact the Skerries AIB for video tape evidence then contact me. They said they checked the security camera but couldnt make out the person, but told me they couldnt make out the guilty party.

I got my money back, my laser card was replaced, and I was happy again!!:)

Oh yeah, and the ATM looked as normal as ever as I regularly used that machine though not anymore for obvious reasons. Will only use atms that I trust or atms within the local shops like Spar or somewhere.

Anyways, I know it wasnt any particular help, but just thought I'd jump on the thread and say those people are filthy ........ and if I met one.........................................................:mad:

nava · 22-12-2005 8:15pm

d-arke wrote:

Will only use atms that I trust or atms within the local shops like Spar or somewhere.

Hi

I agree with that point, I only use ATM's inside the shops or if I can't I try use it in shopping centers were a camera is pointing to the ATM's as there will less chances of anyone messing with them.

Regards

leche solara · 22-12-2005 9:01pm

Don't be so sure about the ATMs inside.
TSB in Henrt St has an ATM on the outside wall on the street, and another in the lobby on the way into the bank. This one is only accessible when the bank is open for business. The inside one was scammed last week with a false front while the outside one was left alone.

Dub13 · 24-12-2005 7:03pm

24/12/2005 - 17:18:14
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/12/24/story236662.html

Three men were arrested by police in Belfast today as part of a major investigation into ATM fraud.

They were detained after so-called skimming devices were found in a number of cash dispensers outside banks in the city.

Officers had mounted surveillance operations during the last-minute Christmas sales rush in the city centre.

Beans_On · 20-09-2006 10:26am

bringing up an old thread but just wondering,does anyone know when a card is "skimmed" do the thieves need to know you r pin number?

nava · 20-09-2006 1:20pm

Beans_On wrote:

bringing up an old thread but just wondering,does anyone know when a card is "skimmed" do the thieves need to know you r pin number?

Hi

yes they do as far as I know, if you look at the above pics you can see that they might also have a camera attached to the ATM so they can see you enter the pin or another option for them is to have someone close by to look as you key in the pin.

I always put my hand or wallet over my hand as I key the number.

Another option to get money out with laser could be to get cashback, should be safer than an ATM but I heard of cases were they also skim the card in some shops (mostly they talk about small corner shops or petrol stations). But should be save in places like Super value, Tesco, etc

Regards

ircoha · 20-09-2006 1:54pm

nava wrote:

Hi

Another option to get money out with laser could be to get cashback, should be safer than an ATM but I heard of cases were they also skim the card in some shops (mostly they talk about small corner shops or petrol stations). But should be save in places like Super value, Tesco, etc

Regards

In shops, dont let the card ever your sight, it gets put into the thingy and thats it, if they tell u , we need to bring it out the back as the fone line is down, no way. Take ur card and leave the groceries etc.

Gillo · 20-09-2006 9:14pm

In fairness to TSB, I've noticed that they have taken a big stand lately. They have recently sealed in the space on their machines where skimmers where been place, the "screen saver" on the ATM's also shows what the card reader should look like.

jimmycrackcorm · 24-09-2006 2:51pm

It's great to see actual photos as otherwise it is very difficult to ascertain what part of an ATM is false. I didn't think that the panels were so large.

I think that relying on in-shop atms leads to a false sense of security, often staff are too busy on the tills to notice what is going on and many of the machines are in obscure corners.

Also thieves have been known to put complete false ATMs into shopping malls.

Buceph · 25-09-2006 12:53am

How secure are these devices? Are they held on with magnets or are they screwed on?

vector · 26-09-2006 2:19am

FFS why can't the banks just install ATMS that have absolutely flat external surfaces, (a flat panel monitor, a flat keypad etc, no cr*p bulges for the card slot, no leaflet holders to hide hidden cameras etc) so that should the criminals attach anything it will instantly make the machine look "wrong"

look at the photos of the real machines above and notice all the bulges, what a silly design.

jimmycrackcorm · 28-09-2006 1:50am

vector wrote:

FFS why can't the banks just install ATMS that have absolutely flat external surfaces, (a flat panel monitor, a flat keypad etc, no cr*p bulges for the card slot, no leaflet holders to hide hidden cameras etc) so that should the criminals attach anything it will instantly make the machine look "wrong"

look at the photos of the real machines above and notice all the bulges, what a silly design.

A flat front would make it even easier to replicate.

Hail 2 Da Chimp · 28-09-2006 8:32am

Nice work Dub13!!!!

never would have suspected some of them, espically with the camera pictures!

Archeron · 28-09-2006 9:07am

Dub13, thank you thank you thank you.
I put a thread onto AH referring back to your posts in this forum, as your advice on the cameras saved me and a lot of other people being scammed the other day. I would never have thought to have looked for cameras, so nice one!! I owes ya a beer.

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 28-09-2006 9:10am

Very interesting. What are you meant to do when you see one of these skimming machines? Just call the guards?

nava · 28-09-2006 9:14am

Roundtower2 wrote:

Very interesting. What are you meant to do when you see one of these skimming machines? Just call the guards?

Hi

yes, DO NOT try to remove anything from the machine as the skimmers might be watching you.

Regards

Dub13 · 28-09-2006 1:02pm

I may sticky this for a while since its back on the increase.

Ruu_Old · 29-09-2006 3:01am

Excellent thread, Dub13. Nicely done, lots of info. Some stuff there I definitely didn't know.

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 29-09-2006 9:15pm

actually have found myself examing ATM's closely since reading this thread yesterday. The sad thing is the amount of times of have used ATMs since yesterday!

Bob the Builder · 01-10-2006 2:18am

oh great, now, i'm paranoid about ATM's and afraid my €63 on my banklink card will get robbed

Thanks for such a good thread, we hear of all stories how ppl's accounts were debited by thousnads. It's only really now that I know how to protect myself, if I do0 ever get a credit card or use my mother's....

su_dios · 12-11-2006 11:45pm

Looks like my card was skimmed last weekend. Only checked my balance today and 600missing. 300 taken on Tuesday and 300 on wed both from same atm number. Thing is... I was sick since Monday night and didn leave my house even once until Thursday. Just cancelled my card and I'll be down to the bank first thing in the morning. UGH.. you hear of this and think its just a myth but seriously be careful .... its definitely still there.

Make it a sticky!

Dub13 · 12-11-2006 11:56pm

su_dios wrote:

Looks like my card was skimmed last weekend. Only checked my balance today and 600missing. 300 taken on Tuesday and 300 on wed both from same atm number. Thing is... I was sick since Monday night and didn leave my house even once until Thursday. Just cancelled my card and I'll be down to the bank first thing in the morning. UGH.. you hear of this and think its just a myth but seriously be careful .... its definitely still there.

Unlucky mate.Will you let us know how you get on with the bank...?

Fidelis · 19-11-2006 6:51pm

I always give the ATM panel a tap or a tug just to check if it's at all loose. I've been doing that for the past year or two, ever since skimming became wide-spread. On a night out in Dublin a few months ago, my now customary tug on the ATM panel revealed that it was very loose. I looked over my shoulder and saw two Gardaí across the street (Dame St), told them about it and they took over from there. Who says they're never around when you need them?

ATM Fraud

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