ATM Fraud

Dub13

Listing to the radio last night and some chap was talking about getting done for 4K over last weekend.Thank god this has never happened to me but you can never be to safe so I think a thread on this issue can do no harm.

I would welcome any story's on how the banks deal with this when you bring it to there attention,how long for refund etc etc.


WHAT TO LOOK OUT FOR:

Any signs of tampering with the ATM, any signs of unusual or loose parts around the machine. Any suspicious perosns loitering in close proximity to the machine.

If you suspect a skimming crime is taking place, do not try to remove the device - it is potential evidence. Withdraw to a reasonable distance and call the Gardaí on 999 or 112.

Do not confront any suspects as these gangs have used violence previously including attacking police officers.

Examples of skimming devices seized by Gardaí:

seamus

That's mad, I've never seen ATMs that look like any of those devices, which is why I'm sure it catches so many people out. I'd know immediately if a BOI or AIB ATM had been tampered with, but I've not really used many of the others, so I'd assume they're "Just different".

Dub13

The infamous Lebanese Loop.



A length of tape is inserted into the card slot. The customer inserts the card and the tape traps it. The criminal is standing behind the customer and when the machine refuses to give up the card and the customer is pressing various buttons the criminal will suggest they enter their pin number twice as this has happened to them. The customer does this watched by the criminal and when they don't receive their card back walk off to report it to the bank. The criminal removes the device and card and goes to other cash points to withdraw money.

ballooba

I especially like the sticker warning people about card fraud in the bottom right one.

Cabaal

ballooba wrote:

I especially like the sticker warning people about card fraud in the bottom right one.

nice touch alright :v:

Dub13

One of the more sophisticated scams.

1 - ATM machine as usual?


2 - Is there an additional slot?


3 - A monitor and pamphlet holder at the side...nothing wrong


4 - Wait ..... Is it really a pamphlet holder


5 - False pamphlet box affixed to the ATM cubicle side


6 - Inside the "pamphlet box"

kc66

Iv seen the Q asked a few times but not answered. What does the bank do if this happens to you? Will they cover the money taken? It is the machine they provide after all so I would expect they would be liable.

seamus

Anecdotal evidence suggests that if you use an ATM belonging to your own bank, they'll refund you, no problem. But if use an ATM belonging to another bank (e.g. using an AIB machine when you're a BOI customer), you'll have to fight to get your money back.

Can't give anything solid on this though.

d-arke

seamus wrote:

Anecdotal evidence suggests that if you use an ATM belonging to your own bank, they'll refund you, no problem. But if use an ATM belonging to another bank (e.g. using an AIB machine when you're a BOI customer), you'll have to fight to get your money back.

Can't give anything solid on this though.

Hi all,

I believe everyone should be reading this topic. Well done to the person who started it.:)

So, better tell my story:

As with every other Friday, I would phone up my BOI Banking 365 to check my account balance to make sure my wages were paid in properly. My balance wasn't what it should have been as it was down nearly 2k :eek: , I know its not a great deal of money, but when its half your account you kinda notice.

So I checked my recent transactions, and there was about 10 or so transactions from the previous Friday unexplainable from my point.:rolleyes: Talk about a shock to the system. I hung up and phoned again thinking I must have been hearing things!! I wasn't! :eek: Then I tried to remember, did I actually blow 2k in the past week:rolleyes: , I had spent a few hundred all right that week on various things, but not 2k.

I then of course raced to my local BOI branch to explain the situation, luckily the manager came out to help with the customer service queue and I was next in line, so went straight to the office. They printed up the recent transactions and I could tell them which ones I made and which ones I hadnt. They could tell me exactly where all the transactions occured, Each transaction was for a minimum of €100 to a max €300, often two or three a day. Mainly throughout Dublin, mostly southside. I live in North Dublin. I had used the AIB atm in Skerries the previous Friday night and withdraw €80, the print out the BOI bank gave me told me I withdrew another two €100 transaction in the southside area within half an hour . Not true, I spent the rest of the night in the pub!!

So that was the start of the dirty thievery. I then had to report the matter to the local garda, write a statement to the bank explaining what happened (this was basically a few lines), and then had to wait about a month until I got my money back as it had to go through some department in head office. Though the reason I was waiting a month was because the incident happened in Skerries, my local garda station had to get in touch with the Skerries Garda to contact the Skerries AIB for video tape evidence then contact me. They said they checked the security camera but couldnt make out the person, but told me they couldnt make out the guilty party.

I got my money back, my laser card was replaced, and I was happy again!!:)

Oh yeah, and the ATM looked as normal as ever as I regularly used that machine though not anymore for obvious reasons. Will only use atms that I trust or atms within the local shops like Spar or somewhere.

Anyways, I know it wasnt any particular help, but just thought I'd jump on the thread and say those people are filthy ........ and if I met one.........................................................:mad:

nava

d-arke wrote:

Will only use atms that I trust or atms within the local shops like Spar or somewhere.

Hi

I agree with that point, I only use ATM's inside the shops or if I can't I try use it in shopping centers were a camera is pointing to the ATM's as there will less chances of anyone messing with them.

Regards

leche solara

Don't be so sure about the ATMs inside.
TSB in Henrt St has an ATM on the outside wall on the street, and another in the lobby on the way into the bank. This one is only accessible when the bank is open for business. The inside one was scammed last week with a false front while the outside one was left alone.

Dub13

24/12/2005 - 17:18:14
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/12/24/story236662.html

Three men were arrested by police in Belfast today as part of a major investigation into ATM fraud.

They were detained after so-called skimming devices were found in a number of cash dispensers outside banks in the city.

Officers had mounted surveillance operations during the last-minute Christmas sales rush in the city centre.

Beans_On

bringing up an old thread but just wondering,does anyone know when a card is "skimmed" do the thieves need to know you r pin number?

nava

Beans_On wrote:

bringing up an old thread but just wondering,does anyone know when a card is "skimmed" do the thieves need to know you r pin number?

Hi

yes they do as far as I know, if you look at the above pics you can see that they might also have a camera attached to the ATM so they can see you enter the pin or another option for them is to have someone close by to look as you key in the pin.

I always put my hand or wallet over my hand as I key the number.

Another option to get money out with laser could be to get cashback, should be safer than an ATM but I heard of cases were they also skim the card in some shops (mostly they talk about small corner shops or petrol stations). But should be save in places like Super value, Tesco, etc

Regards

ircoha

nava wrote:

Hi

Another option to get money out with laser could be to get cashback, should be safer than an ATM but I heard of cases were they also skim the card in some shops (mostly they talk about small corner shops or petrol stations). But should be save in places like Super value, Tesco, etc

Regards

In shops, dont let the card ever your sight, it gets put into the thingy and thats it, if they tell u , we need to bring it out the back as the fone line is down, no way. Take ur card and leave the groceries etc.

Gillo

In fairness to TSB, I've noticed that they have taken a big stand lately. They have recently sealed in the space on their machines where skimmers where been place, the "screen saver" on the ATM's also shows what the card reader should look like.

jimmycrackcorm

It's great to see actual photos as otherwise it is very difficult to ascertain what part of an ATM is false. I didn't think that the panels were so large.

I think that relying on in-shop atms leads to a false sense of security, often staff are too busy on the tills to notice what is going on and many of the machines are in obscure corners.

Also thieves have been known to put complete false ATMs into shopping malls.

Buceph

How secure are these devices? Are they held on with magnets or are they screwed on?

vector

FFS why can't the banks just install ATMS that have absolutely flat external surfaces, (a flat panel monitor, a flat keypad etc, no cr*p bulges for the card slot, no leaflet holders to hide hidden cameras etc) so that should the criminals attach anything it will instantly make the machine look "wrong"

look at the photos of the real machines above and notice all the bulges, what a silly design.

jimmycrackcorm

vector wrote:

FFS why can't the banks just install ATMS that have absolutely flat external surfaces, (a flat panel monitor, a flat keypad etc, no cr*p bulges for the card slot, no leaflet holders to hide hidden cameras etc) so that should the criminals attach anything it will instantly make the machine look "wrong"

look at the photos of the real machines above and notice all the bulges, what a silly design.

A flat front would make it even easier to replicate.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Nice work Dub13!!!!

never would have suspected some of them, espically with the camera pictures!

Archeron

Dub13, thank you thank you thank you.
I put a thread onto AH referring back to your posts in this forum, as your advice on the cameras saved me and a lot of other people being scammed the other day. I would never have thought to have looked for cameras, so nice one!! I owes ya a beer.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Very interesting. What are you meant to do when you see one of these skimming machines? Just call the guards?

nava

Roundtower2 wrote:

Very interesting. What are you meant to do when you see one of these skimming machines? Just call the guards?

Hi

yes, DO NOT try to remove anything from the machine as the skimmers might be watching you.


Regards

Dub13

I may sticky this for a while since its back on the increase.

Ruu_Old

Excellent thread, Dub13. Nicely done, lots of info. Some stuff there I definitely didn't know.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

actually have found myself examing ATM's closely since reading this thread yesterday. The sad thing is the amount of times of have used ATMs since yesterday!

Bob the Builder

oh great, now, i'm paranoid about ATM's and afraid my €63 on my banklink card will get robbed

Thanks for such a good thread, we hear of all stories how ppl's accounts were debited by thousnads. It's only really now that I know how to protect myself, if I do0 ever get a credit card or use my mother's....

su_dios

Looks like my card was skimmed last weekend. Only checked my balance today and 600missing. 300 taken on Tuesday and 300 on wed both from same atm number. Thing is... I was sick since Monday night and didn leave my house even once until Thursday. Just cancelled my card and I'll be down to the bank first thing in the morning. UGH.. you hear of this and think its just a myth but seriously be careful .... its definitely still there.

Make it a sticky!

Dub13

su_dios wrote:

Looks like my card was skimmed last weekend. Only checked my balance today and 600missing. 300 taken on Tuesday and 300 on wed both from same atm number. Thing is... I was sick since Monday night and didn leave my house even once until Thursday. Just cancelled my card and I'll be down to the bank first thing in the morning. UGH.. you hear of this and think its just a myth but seriously be careful .... its definitely still there.

Unlucky mate.Will you let us know how you get on with the bank...?

Fidelis

I always give the ATM panel a tap or a tug just to check if it's at all loose. I've been doing that for the past year or two, ever since skimming became wide-spread. On a night out in Dublin a few months ago, my now customary tug on the ATM panel revealed that it was very loose. I looked over my shoulder and saw two Gardaí across the street (Dame St), told them about it and they took over from there. Who says they're never around when you need them?

Ruu_Old

Heres a website I saw an ad for in Dub airport, sorry if it has been posted already. Safecard-Stop Card Fraud.

Black Swan

Thanks OP. A very useful thread!

su_dios

Dub13 wrote:

Unlucky mate.Will you let us know how you get on with the bank...?

Will do. Still waiting to hear whats going on anyway at the moment.

Dub13

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=CWSNMHGBKFOJ

16/01/2007 - 10:56:28

Cash machine thieves have cleared bank accounts as part of a scam centred in Armagh City, police revealed today.

Fraud Squad detectives launched an inquiry after several customers were robbed over the past few weeks.

Their inquiries are focused on an ATM at a garage on the city’s Moy Road.

Thieves are believed to have attached a so-called skimming device to the dispenser which copies bank details.

They then gained access to accounts and lifted money.

The criminals involved are understood to have struck several times around January 11 and 12.

Officers from the PSNI's Police Service’s Cheque and Credit Card Unit have been called in to probe the robberies.

Members of the public using ATMs were also urged to be extra vigilant.

diarmuidh

i got hit this weekend-waiting for the details, will let you guys know what happens

these guys are the lowest of the low-at least an Irish knacker would hit you and steal from you...very underhand...scumbags..curva!!

su_dios

Completely forgot about this until I saw the post pop up. I had my money refunded in the end within 2 weeks but some chasing was needed to get something done about it in a hurry.
They had not caught the guys or found anything further out.


Very unlucky and it really is so so easy for it to happen. Even being vigilant won't really protect you

diarmuidh

true enough-I always watch the machines...

guy in bank said 2 R teenagers were caught red handed-but released 1 month later..Irish justice..a joke

Dub13

diarmuidh wrote:

i got hit this weekend-waiting for the details, will let you guys know what happens

What area of the country...?

Sangre

The absolute best protection is to ALWAYS cover your pin when entering it(and I meant completely cover it). I cover it with my upsidedown open wallet as I've it at hand when taking the card in and out. It doesn't matter if the
re is no one around for miles, they can get you with pinhole cameras etc.,
Get into the habit!
A skimmed card is useless without the pin!

diarmuidh

...

diarmuidh

I suspect the info was got in the city centre..Dublin that is...skimmed card used in outer suburbs...I was the 5th person today in the Garda station I went to

swingking

It is so simple to stop this happening

place a hand sized cover over the keypad, like what permanent TSB are doing

In that way, view from the sides are covered

All you have to do then is place free hand over the cover

solved

diarmuidh

read in yesterday's Herald that there were 2 Romanians (judging by their names) arrested on 27th Feb for ATM skimming in the city centre..they are out on bail...great justice system we have!

toutarcade

Hi I would like to add my recent atm fraud story

I noticed on the monday of the week I was getting paid, I knew i only had about 300euros in my account but when i checked my online account at about 10.30pm i noticed the balance was zero so i contacted my bank to find out what the transactions were they told me they were in navan (i live in town), I said these were unauthorized transactions and i knew nothing about them, so i was transferred to their fraud department based in the uk and explained that my card must have been copied, they asked mke if my wallet was stolen or if i gave the cards to anyone and i said the cards (laser+atm) have always been on my person, i explained that i don't carry around my pin etc etc and that was it. I then called my branch in the morning to confirm that the cards had been canceled and fraud activity was being carried out, my bank said they would issue new cards and send me out a declaration form to sign. I realize that its only 300 but ii still wanted to get it back so i waited for the cards i got one delivered by normal post and 1 delivered by registered post but they were both the same laser card, so i contacted the customer service line who said wait for the pins to be sent out and cut up the other one, fine i thought. I waited for the pins but to no avail, i rang the care lin on the friday that iwas getting paid and they said the pins had not been requested so i said fine and borrowed some money from my girlfriend as i needed money for the weekend.

on the saturday after i got paid approx 2500, i noticed 1400 was taken from my account in two 700 transactions one on the friday and one on the saturday morning so i called my bank and they said they didnt cancel one of the cards (the atm one). this was the day of the rugby matches and i was on my way to the pub if i didnt check my account before leaving another 700 would have been taken out

I reported this to the police and called my bank screaming to them about this mess they said the second amount was being added to the first amopunt for investigation, i had to dip into my savings while all this was going on after two weeks i heard nothing so i sent them a bollocking letter saying i would report it to the papers, they lodged the money in immediately and called me to say "but you got your money back...", i said this was not the point and at no stage did ulsgterbank admit any fault. they then sent me out a snotty letter saying that i must have given my card to someone to use or told someone when i was getting paid, they didnt take into account that it was the end of the month and one of the last places i used my card was in my place of work also the letter had two paragraphs of how to change my pin and look after my card?, oh sorry i should mention, during the two weeks of waiting i requested a new pin on 4 occasions and received exactly the same pin number from my previous card!, which if i had know i would have had access to my account and being able to change my number, they then sent me out the same pin again! another bollocking letter ensued saying that i did not want to be patronized and that i would be taking my banking elsewhere

anyway i opened a new account with another bank closed my account and said i cannot trust them after this. they sent me a letter from their customer care department on the 20th saying the were investigating it with a resolution that i would be happy with and i would get an update by the 30th.....still nothing

all i say is be careful that the bank actually do cancel everything and get them to email or confirm by post

louthandproud

swingking wrote:

It is so simple to stop this happening

place a hand sized cover over the keypad, like what permanent TSB are doing

In that way, view from the sides are covered

All you have to do then is place free hand over the cover

solved

Some of the equipment these guys use includes false key pads also, so in that case covering won't help as your kep pad entries would be recorded electronically.

Peewee_lane

I was on my way out to dinner tonight with my boyfriend. Ive just started a new job and had been royally paid last week. At the ATM my balance read 64cent.I knew something was up and I hadn't blown a grand in a week so I rang AIB straight away and they confirmed that someone had raped my account in Ranelagh last night. I am disgusted and broke. I got such a shock when I realised I couldnt pay my rent or loans I vomited. I am a little heartbroken. This is a disgusting crime. I just dont know. I hope they refund my money, I hope whoever it is gets identified, it was at an ATM in Ranelagh.....Really angry guys, you can probably tell

Oh yes, I meant to add, I havnt been to Ranelagh or near there in months. I used my atm on Baggot street last week, near my new job.

Sam Vimes

toutarcade wrote:

oh sorry i should mention, during the two weeks of waiting i requested a new pin on 4 occasions and received exactly the same pin number from my previous card!, which if i had know i would have had access to my account and being able to change my number, they then sent me out the same pin again! another bollocking letter ensued saying that i did not want to be patronized and that i would be taking my banking elsewhere

i'm not sure i understand here. they sent you out a new atm card and the pin they sent you for it was the same? is that right?


if so they did nothing wrong there. any time i've had a new card sent out the pin has been the same. afaik only you can change it in an atm. it doesn't matter that the pin is the same because the thief would be using the old cancelled card and it won't work even with the right pin

dublinplumber

just grab at the surface edges ,card slot etc.if it moves its dodgy ,this is what i do at every atm, the banks wont say anything if their camera sees u doing this , common sense

MarkR

The banks won't care if you start grabbing stuff, but the group of guys in the car nearby might. If you have suspicions you are always advised not to try to remove the device.

msg11

ircoha wrote: »

In shops, dont let the card ever your sight, it gets put into the thingy and thats it, if they tell u , we need to bring it out the back as the fone line is down, no way. Take ur card and leave the groceries etc.

Would agree there ! Work in tesco myself.. One time I had to bring the card to the customer service desk to phone the bank, Card problem. I was very shocked, when I said to the guy that I need to bring the card to the customer service desk. He said grand, and waited at the till.

Lookly I am an honest person, and he avoided, been seriously out of pocket.

Just be aware of that. Never let it leave your sight, also watch out for your card "dropping" on the ground.

Cant speak for any other store. But in tesco, your card will always be swiped threw the checkout. The chip and pin device is only used for pin entry. So if you are told to place the card in the chip and pin device. Do not. The only device for use in tesco is the till.