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BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    The D4 going to every 12 minutes I am imagining is part of plan to provide a decent bus service for the massive new development at Oscar Traynor Woods on Coolock Lane. This development alone is adding 850 homes to the area, so over 3,000 additional people landing into the area over the next few years as they come on stream.

    It continuing to Omni makes a bit more sense. Gives bus stop to bus stop interchange with the A spine and brings people to a busy and popular shopping centre rather than the proposed turning spot outside the Centra beside Santry Demense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭Taisteal Éireann


    I'm being purely pedantic here and I know that they're trying to not reuse numbers in the current network, but has the numbering system for the radials gone out the window? It was meant to be anticlockwise around the city - the 6 to Howth all the way around to the 98 to Loughlinstown. It seems we'll now have a 78 to Ayrfield, a 97 to East Wall and we have the 99 to Phoenix Park. The planned 57 to Newcastle follows the pattern at least.

    Re the next phase, the frequency of the new L89 over the old 40B is incredible and really great to see such an increase. Shame though that it couldn't continue on to Swords as was in the original plan. I'd also imagine the F1 to Tallaght will be extremely busy at night time until the D-Spine launches. With Tallaght soon having a 24 hour bus service, that's probably all the major suburbs of Dublin covered now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    A post a while back suggested that the D2 would move to a 15 minute schedule as opposed to the current 10 minute schedule of the 27. Is there any confirmation of that or do these timings come out closer to the launch?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,149 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The frequency guide from the original published plan has it at every 15 mins, but that wouldn’t integrate with the D4 at every 12 mins as the new document tells us.

    Hence my comment that I suspect all four D-Spine routes will be at a 12 min frequency.

    We will have to wait until the phase is ready to be launched next year or if someone from the NTA issues an update to councillors in the meantime to find out what the plan is.

    The original frequency guide is at the bottom of this page.

    https://busconnects.ie/cities/dublin/new-dublin-area-bus-network/

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,149 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Still a large area of south central Dublin between the E Spine and the 15 route without a 24 hour service, and also the H-Spine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 300 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    Making one of 86/87/88 a 24 hr route could be a suitable solution. Perhaps they didn't make H Spine 24 hrs because it isn't cross city?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 Arhanedus


    I suspect the H spine wasn't made 24/7 because it was the first, so maybe they hadn't considered it back then. I don't see how the routes not being cross-city means that people in Howth, Baldoyle, or Portmarnock and Malahide don't deserve a nighttime service that most other places have (or will have).

    And yes, at the very least some of the radials should be 24/7 too. Some of them go close enough to spine routes so it's not a big problem, but some of them like the 86 and 88 are quite far from any spine, and therefore could really use becoming a 24/7 service in their own right. (The 87 seems to be the same as the 88 but only going as far as Belarmine, so you might as well make the 88 the 24 hour one).

    The orbital routes should also be made 24/7 for the same reason - they connect different suburbs together without requiring you to go to city centre and back. Besides, the N4 already runs at night, so why not the rest of them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Is there any chance the 86/87/88 will be 24h?

    There are huge parts of south central Dublin without a 24hr route & now the 24hr 80 is stopping short at Rathmines.

    H spine should also be 24hr.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    The 15, 39a and 41 were already running 24hr when it launched so 24hr routes were definitely on the agenda at the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,149 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The A Spine phase should improve the situation significantly in the south central area of the city.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 135 ✭✭The Mathematician


    I thought the 80 stopping at Rathmines was only until the A spine is introduced, but maybe I have misinterpreted?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,607 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    There is a bit of history behind the H spine. Back when BusConnects was first launched in 2018, there was no H spine. There was just a bunch of proposed routes like the 31, 32, etc. I assume because unlike the other spines it doesn't go through the city.

    Obviously people in the area were upset about that and complained, so the NTA ended up creating the H spine, but really all they did was rename the routes 31, 31, etc. to H2, H3, etc.

    I get the impression that it is a "light" spine and is missing some features of the other spines.

    I agree though it should absolutely have 24/7 routes and if I'm to guess that is likely to come on the last phase when all the other routes are done. If not, then the people living in this area should complain loudly to their politicians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,149 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The H Spine was a bit more than simply renumbering the routes.

    The operating hours were extended at both ends of the day, but far more importantly the Spine was a test bed for Dublin Bus in terms of a completely new way of operating a group of bus routes with integrated schedules in both directions.

    From an operational perspective it was a huge change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,149 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    You are quite correct.

    The 80 terminating at Palmerston Park is only a temporary measure because this process is phased.

    It will extend to Kingston in Ballinteer as part of the A-Spine phase replacing the southern half of route 14.

    Several branches of the A Spine are likely to be 24 hour routes, but we won’t know which ones exactly until the spine is launched or the NTA disclose their plans to local politicians.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,234 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Turning the 65 into a very small amount of peak departures is nuts. Am I missing something ? Why not just keep the 65 - the outer connections to city centre for Embankment, back of Saggart, Manorkilbride, Donard, Blessington is still needed, the N81 is crowded enough as it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Thanks LXFlyer.

    A spine is supposed to be rolled out in autumn 2026?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,149 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There will be an hourly L44 all day long from Ballymore Eustace to The Square in Tallaght via Blessington and the N81.

    I suspect you’ll see some schools extra works as well to cover those loads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,234 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Yes there are P44 and P45 , but I find it hard to believe it is a serious notion to remove the city centre to Blessington link apart from the peaks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 300 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    I do wonder if this 27a replacement that is rumored to be renamed 78 could be intended to be cross city and also replace 65 to The Square. I note that the number 12 could've also been used for 27a replacement and would fit well in radial numbering system, yet that seems not to be the case. 78 would also then fit if it were to be cross city, tho it seems like a big stretch from my part



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,149 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    You’re not getting me - I’m suggesting that there will be additional term time extra works to cover the schools demand in addition to the planned P43 and P44 services.

    Personally, I’d let the BÉ 132 cover City-Blessington once that service gets the planned frequency upgrade under Connecting Ireland, and provided that all departures on the route were LF double deck operated. At the moment it can only set down in Blessington inbound and pick up outbound.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 135 ✭✭The Mathematician


    I must admit that this sort of timetable (whic also occurs at Dunboyne for example) is the one thing that I don't like about Bus Connects. It is not a problem travelling into town, where you change from an infrequent service to a frequent one. But travelling out of town, where you are transferinng from a frequent service to an infrequent one, it is certainly a problem. Perhaps consideration might be given to introducing a guaranteed connection, where the infrequent bus waits for a specific departure from town.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 Arhanedus


    That could actually be a good idea, and relieve a lot of stress about missing your connection. It's not a massive problem in Bray where most of the buses operate at a 20-30 minute frequency, so it's not a huge deal if the dart is late and you miss the connection (although they definitely could improve the amount of buses that leave at the exact moment the dart pulls into the station). I definitely wouldn't want to risk missing an hourly connection though.

    The downside is that it might still fall apart - what if the designated departure is 20 minutes late (like what happens on the E1 on a regular basis), or if it's cancelled/curtailed? I'm glad that at least they have added these direct services to/from city centre at rush hour, so that people can still just get on their bus and know that they'll be able to get home without worrying about connecting to the local bus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,143 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Well Go Ahead have responded to complaints relating to more issues with timekeeping & reliability with their own BusConnects routes in Bray & North Wicklow. Although I've no idea if the same issues with Go Ahead's reliablity are also hitting the 45a/45b as well.

    A subscribers article printed in the Bray People reported last Monday that Go Ahead Ireland will be focusing a lot more on reliability of their bus routes for their passengers in the North Wicklow area. Soc Dems TD Jennifer Whitmore got notification that GAI's planned depot in North Wicklow will be open later this year. It seems that planned bus depot from Go Ahead can't come soon enough to help passengers get on with their journeys within that part of North Wicklow & other parts of South Dublin.

    Will we get a firm date to open new depot this year or do we have any info about the location of the depot yet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 459 ✭✭PlatformNine


    I don't disagree, more so I'm curious as to why they haven't announced the changes when they have at least some working map with the changes. It's the same with whatever will pick up the Northside D5.

    I will say though I think that a radial route would have been been better suited to serving Bushy Park Rd given where it is relative to the A-spine. But I also can see that there isn't a proposed radial at the moment that could do that well, which is probably why they picked the A2 or A4.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,149 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It won’t really make a difference in terms of the spine - except that it will start in full at Rathgar.

    There will still be far more buses on Terenure Road East to/from the city than there is currently.

    There is no radial route to do that so that isn’t an option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,149 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    That’s really not going to work for a bus coming from the far side of the city until the CBCs are implemented.

    Hence I think that the BÉ 132 would be a far better option for Blessington.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭BusGuy


    Interesting, I'm not surprised if all the Dundrum-bound GAI routes are transferred to Bray…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 258 ✭✭Stillnotworking


    Was there a map in the booklet for phase 7A or am I going mad. I cant find it going back through the links to the booklet or on the NTA site. If anyone has one, I'd appreciate. Thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 Arhanedus


    Really funny that they only claim that "over 98% of contracted kilometres" operated, but they don't seem to mention the punctuality. Even from my own experience, the 45A, L1, and L2 can be a disaster with buses running 10-20 minutes late almost every day at rush hour, and sometimes even during the afternoon off-peak when things get bad enough.

    The timings are rather tight along the routes and the buses are often given just 5-10 minutes to turn around before their next departure, which means that the buses arrive at the terminus later than they're supposed to depart, meaning the bus doesn't recover any of the delay.

    The Wicklow depot will help in terms of replacing broken down buses and for leaving the depot to start the shift, but it won't help with the terrible scheduling that prevents buses from being able to properly recover when delays happen, and they happen a lot given the amount of traffic in the Bray area.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 Arhanedus


    Yes, that's more or less what I was trying to say as well, the "local bus waits for the spine bus to arrive" scheme is a decent alternative but it only has any point in it when the bus service is reliable. Until that happens, a direct bus will be much more favourable for areas like Blessington where the local service only runs once an hour.



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