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Moderation of trans issue and terms

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,698 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Everyone you disagree with is wrong and you're the hero in your own narrative as always.

    Where have I seen that before? I know -

    I'm not sure you could have picked worse examples if you'd actually tried. The founder of Mermaids, was not the Senior Clinical Psychiatrist at the Tavistock whose responsibilities included signing off on assessments which recommended further medical treatment for patients with severe gender dysphoria. I'll give you one guess who was… take as long as you like, and that was the same person who later became one of the Governors of the Tavistock, had a bit of a falling out with the Board, decided to air his dirty laundry in public and portrayed himself in the media as the hero in his own narrative.

    That's just poor, tbh. Anyway, good you got that off your chest, back to the discussion now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    The fact you keep insisting theres pages of transphobia yet are utterly incapable of highlighting it when really shows why there should be no change to moderation.

    Even the people that see transphobia everywhere can't bloody define what exactly it is, let alone the majority who aren't seeing this invisible transphobia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,013 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Isn’t that something like objecting to “biological male” even though neither male nor biological are offensive in themselves? Only the other way around of course.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,013 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    I would never use the word ciswoman about myself and I would find it very offensive to be described that way.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,935 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    User - Transphobia is rampant on boards and I demand the mods and admins act to address it!!!

    Everyone else - OK, happy to discuss, please provide examples of what you mean.

    User - no, but there are loads of examples of what trans people find offensive. (Im not trans but I know what they find offensive)

    Everyone else - OK, can you post some specifics of what exactly is offensive to trans people.

    User - no, do your own research, it's clear for everyone to see. If you can't see it then you are transphobic and the mods / admins are de facto transphobic by not addressing the issues that only i can see (as a non trans person)

    Everyone - Huh. So we are all transphobic, even though we dont know why and you aren't willing to cite any examples of what precisely is offensive

    User - I'm not providing a list (obviously because it would be pure personal preference of what I find offensive and would be easily discredited)

    /fin



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Putting all the b*llshit aside:

    When it comes to moderating trans issues and posts in general, moderators should be free to use their judgement to weigh up the intent.

    Was the post posted in a way that was inteded to antagonise? We used to have a rule banning flame-baiting, but that seems to have been done away with years ago. Flame baiting itself isn't a well known term anymore, which speaks for itself.

    Was the post posted in a way that was intended to be derogatory towards an individual or group? If so, after receiving a warning, the poster should have the right to defend their post, in a dispute resolution thread if required, with final judgement from a c-mod/admin

    Can anyone argue that they would not like boards to be more open, warm and welcoming to all?

    Considering this thread is about moderation of trans issues, it's interesting that the anti-trans cohort posting on here have not responded to this post, which I'm posting for the third time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,935 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Well when you are making up more lies ie calling me and others "anti trans" why would anyone engage in good faith with you? It's quite clear the agenda behind this thread, and the entire TRA movement that is everywhere these days, drink the koolaid or you are a transphobe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Talking of biology, the doctor in the NHS Fife case up in Scotland describes himself as a "biological female", with his his legal team also using exclusively female terminology in his defense. However, the good doctor has no way of proving that he is biologically female other than his interpretation of the words biological & female. The nurse in the case disputes his biological credentials, and her legal team use exclusively male terminology when refering to the good doctor. Fascinating clash of male Vs female pronouns in the tribunal.

    The tribunal is currently in recess but will resume in July with a verdict expected later that same month.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Where are the "anti-trans" posters you refer to yet again. Are they also invisible and is that why no one can see their "transphobia"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭archfi


    250601.jpeg

    Garbled list of a few words and phrases that a contributor has posted on thread.

    Hopefully that helps the uneducated readers and that they reflect on their phobic and genocidal nature if refusing AND not agreeing to words.

    Remember, refusing to use a term IS transphobic (may change by the week or even day, so just suck it up).

    Also, if you DON'T AGREE with being labelled a term, well you're just genociding.

    Only posters informed with their full faculties after learning new ways of thinking™ from activist websites and full of the milk of kindness™ get that this is obvious.

    Why can't you? Eh?…

    A thing isn't what it says it is.

    A thing is what it does.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Why screenshot and not quote?

    Any thoughts on my post above, re intent?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Well you weren't talking to me you were addressing the mythical "anti-trans" group that are supposedly present. I was just wondering could you identify any of these so called "anti-trans" posters or are you arguing against non existant ghosts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    So you dont want to address that post, how about this one that I have made, especially for you?

    When it comes to moderating trans issues and posts in general, moderators should be free to use their judgement to weigh up the intent.

    Was the post posted in a way that was inteded to antagonise? We used to have a rule banning flame-baiting, but that seems to have been done away with years ago. Flame baiting itself isn't a well known term anymore, which speaks for itself.

    Was the post posted in a way that was intended to be derogatory towards an individual or group? If so, after receiving a warning, the poster should have the right to defend their post, in a dispute resolution thread if required, with final judgement from a c-mod/admin

    Can you argue that you would not like boards to be more open, warm and welcoming to all?

    We are allegedly here, after all, to discuss moderating trans issues on boards.ie



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,553 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    I literally said the same thing re moderators assessing poster's intent on page 6 of this now 29 page thread.

    I don't think anyone would disagree with you. It's logical and what moderators are meant to be doing anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    It may be logical, and what moderators are meant to do, but it is not in any charter.

    I am saying that posters should be warned in advance about the intent of their post.

    If their post is seen as intended to be derogatory towards an individual or minority, it should be considered an actionable post. I don't think that's the case as it stands.

    And yes, I am sure I would have been pulled up on it, before anyone has a go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    And the classic refusal to identify these supposed "anti-trans" posters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Ah, the classic refusal to discuss the topic at hand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭archfi


    I've already quoted and replied to your original post.

    Numerous posters have already given their own takes on how moderation on this subject should go including context and intent.

    I'm pretty sure that's the normal view sans censorship or mandated phrases.

    I'm surprised you missed them all.

    A thing isn't what it says it is.

    A thing is what it does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    No I'm asking you identify these supposed "anti trans" posters, but like the pages of "transphobia" that can't be pointed out it doesn't appear to exist.

    Fighting imagination and expecting moderators to set rules matching imagination is utterly unworkable.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,327 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Flame baiting is against a number of forum specific rulesets I believe and I assume that it is against the general site rules also.

    However the issue isn't really flamebaiting or how it is dealt with. It it how you define the specific terms that are deemed potentially problematic and whether the relevant mod perception of these terms is the same as every other mods etc.

    It's fairly clear to me that certain people on this thread, given mod powers, would be referring large numbers of posts for flamebaiting, yet wouldn't be able to articulate why the post was offensive in the first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,897 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Why are posters, who are clearly anti-trans, denying that they are?

    “It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be” - A. Dumbledore

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,327 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Who are these posters and what anti trans words and phrases are they using ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    So instead of discussing moderation of trans issues and terms, you appear to start to want a witch-hunt against anti trans individuals by ignoring the main part of my post about intent and focussing in on the notion that there may be anti trans people on this site.

    I'm sorry to say, I'm not playing that game with you today.

    So, again,

    When it comes to moderating trans issues and posts in general, moderators should be free to use their judgement to weigh up the intent.

    Was the post posted in a way that was inteded to antagonise? We used to have a rule banning flame-baiting, but that seems to have been done away with years ago. Flame baiting itself isn't a well known term anymore, which speaks for itself.

    Was the post posted in a way that was intended to be derogatory towards an individual or group? If so, after receiving a warning, the poster should have the right to defend their post, in a dispute resolution thread if required, with final judgement from a c-mod/admin

    Can you argue that you would not like boards to be more open, warm and welcoming to all?

    We are allegedly here, after all, to discuss moderating trans issues on boards.ie, not start a witch hunt against anti-trans posters.

    If you want to start a witch hunt against such posters, may I suggest you start a thread elsewhere, where I'm sure they'll make themselves known.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    First of all, I looked before for the site rules and I'm pretty sure the reference to flame baiting was removed.

    Secondly, I believe the main issue is posting in a derogatory intent.

    Thirdly, if a mod couldn't articulate why a post was offensive in a dispute thread, the warning is more often overturned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    But in the case of gendered language which side do the mods side with? Take an example whereby the media at large all describe a person by their chosen pronoun (which runs contrary to public pinion and human biology).

    So let's let's say I discuss this individual as he and him (because he is a man), yet the media and the mods have been instructed to stick with female pronouns for the individual, for he identifies as a woman and as female (even though he's not).

    Where does that leave me & my descriptive male pronoun contributions? Am I charged with "misgendering" and thread banned for refering to him as he, or are those days over?

    What if I state that there are only two sexes male & female, will mods still ban me for saying this, or have they eased off . . .

    Hopefully those Draconian days are over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I don't want to start a witch hunt I just wanted any sort of proof that this is an issue on the site.

    - So far no ones been able to point out any of the supposed pages of transphobia.

    • so far no one can point out any of the supposed anti-trans posters.

    so there seems to be no actual evidence of an issue to address so moderators should just ignore this apparently non existant problem. The people complaining can't even find what they are complaining about ffs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,327 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    They term is definitely still in some forum specific rulesets..for some reason I can't post a link here at the moment.

    What is defined as derogatory intent is the key question as the phraseology around it hasn't been presented anywhere as a starting base.

    Either way I would make the assumption that mods already can and do where appropriate deal with posts in this manner if they deem it so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    It's honestly quite funny how you are so stubbornly refusing to discuss the topic at hand.

    The thread is called, "Moderation of trans issue and terms"

    I have tried to discuss a few times now with you Moderation of trans issue and terms but you refuse to do so, instead being hell bent on getting me to out the anti trans posters even when I have said I have no desire to do so 🤣

    In for a penny, in for a pound!

    When it comes to moderating trans issues and posts in general, moderators should be free to use their judgement to weigh up the intent.

    Was the post posted in a way that was inteded to antagonise? We used to have a rule banning flame-baiting, but that seems to have been done away with years ago. Flame baiting itself isn't a well known term anymore, which speaks for itself.

    Was the post posted in a way that was intended to be derogatory towards an individual or group? If so, after receiving a warning, the poster should have the right to defend their post, in a dispute resolution thread if required, with final judgement from a c-mod/admin

    Can you argue that you would not like boards to be more open, warm and welcoming to all?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    If you're referring to a trans woman as he, to me, you would be posting with the intent to be derogatory as you would be well aware trans women on this site should be referred to as she, as has been laid out in the rules.



This discussion has been closed.
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