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Moderation of trans issue and terms

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,288 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Where did anyone use the word "****" in this thread, or indeed anywhere, before you brought it up in an attempt to create a link that doesn't exist?

    Please, link the post where this happened. If so I'll happily acknowledge my mistake.

    If you can't provide the link/example though then no need to reply to this.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Raichų




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,327 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    A lot of posters would love to know what these terms that are so offensive are.

    But no one wants to provide them.

    As I said, cisgender seems to be a term that's offensive to many but yet to see or hear other examples.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,941 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Not as far as I can see.

    Pointless and babies throwing their toys out of the pram.

    Just give me a list of sterile words I'll never use and I'll be happy…actually probably not as it'll change in 10 seconds…are we allowed call ourselves a bollix? Or would that offend me?

    Bollix, I need a beer and a toastie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,941 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Some answer. Explain please, if you wish of course.



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  • Site Banned Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Raichų




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Actually I didn't start this thread. I posted a question in an already running thread and the mods decided to break it off into it's own thread.

    Now, I know many here would love me to give them a handy list so they could hop on me and tear me apart for it, but its not going to happen. I've already been accused of forcing my words and "beliefs" on others, of been called a cultist, a dangerous person, accused of indoctrination, and various other insults, so imagine what abuse I'd get if I provided said list? LOL. No.

    If anyone needs evidence that transphobia and transphobic language is a problem on Boards.ie, they only have to read THIS thread for multiple examples! And then have a look at other threads in Current Affairs. Its an ongoing problem and has been for a while.

    And if you don't recognise it for what it is (though I suspect you do, but don't want to acknowledge it) then, that's your problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    The thread is about what language should be allowed when speaking about Trans people.

    Obviously it's comparable to language used against other minorities over the years. Some language was acceptable, but isn't anymore.

    Don't try to suggest that not treating trans people with respect and human rights is somehow ok.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Raichų


    I have never seen such a lazy attempt at action in my life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,327 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Ah look.

    Did you request the thread be closed down at any point if you werent happy with the split/context under which it was started?? You probably should as you don't seem to be able provide any real evidence of what you are talking about.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,941 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Give me a second beer and I will.

    Tell me something, if you wish. Who decides on boards what words are offensive. You, me, somebody who doesn't answer.

    Smart arse replies are always welcome. Not like I expect much honesty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,941 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Evidence would be nice. So yes please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,288 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Doubling down on the "if you don't see it, you're part of the problem you transphobe" argument doesn't actually do what you think it does. Firstly it's wasted on me. I'm neither hurt nor embarrassed by your inference - it's meaningless to me.

    Secondly, repeating the same "you know what I mean" line but without actually providing clear examples, or why they are offensive, or to whom, over and over doesn't strengthen your argument, it weakens it. In the absence of these things people will indeed draw their own conclusions but I don't think it's what you want or expect either.

    Clarity is important, paticularly where you are talking about suggested policy changes and censorship. If you can't provide that clarity then really there's nothing to be discussed in my view - but again, it's up to the Mods to make the final decision on your request.

    Speaking of the Mods, you're just being pedantic now by saying this isn't your thread when the reason it exists is because of the post YOU made initially. If anything, I think it shows that the Mods DO want wider feedback and suggestions on what you've requested by splitting it into its own topic which can only be a positive surely?

    But, again, I must point out that just because you don't like what's being posted in those responses, doesn't make them automatically wrong or "phobic" or whatever else you might be thinking. Not everyone will agree with my posts either (on this or any other topic) and that's perfectly fine. It wouldn't be much of a discussion or site in general if it was just an echo chamber of opinions either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,698 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    That’s not the reason at all there is no reasonable discussion. It’s a rhetorical device, which you are undoubtedly familiar with given your own earlier contributions to the discussion -


    I posted both posts in full so I wouldn’t be taking you out of context, but they could just as easily stand on their own as they don’t actually add anything to the discussion.

    “Insane ultra aggressive emotive waffle”, are you taking the piss like? Genuinely, because that characterisation alone is in itself “insane ultra aggressive emotive waffle”.

    “dyed in the wool ultra left wing activist types”, it’s like you’re only getting wound up, before petering out like a wet fart with the whole “agree to this and you’ll be agreeing to everything these people demand going forward”…

    If making things up that people haven’t said was a competition like, and I don’t mean it in any way to point out your hypocrisy, because I’m not sure you’re even aware of it.

    There’s no need to ban all discussion on the topic at all, that’s just baby out with the bath water stuff, or an exaggeration to make a point, but it’s a false dilemma you’re setting up there as if that’s Boards only two choices - allow posters post whatever they want, or ban it altogether. There’s a middle ground I’m sure you’re well aware of where posters are expected to maintain a standard of civility regardless of the topic being discussed.

    Nobody is proposing that the lunatics be allowed take over the asylum, what asylum? Ah, that’s just another example of exaggeration to make a point, but your assertion that the site would become a blog for far left activists? Absolute paranoia-fuelled nonsense. I’m keeping in mind that I’m compelled to be civil btw, and I’m criticising your opinions, your posts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Call me cynical, but isn't it so amazing that the one word your "research" has managed to identify as an offensive term, (no pun intended) is one I've addressed numerous times on thread already.

    You say you've been here since the start of the thread, but yet you somehow conveniently missed that.

    Sure, Jan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Dude, you can't even seem to manage keeping who posted what or who quoted whom straight, so eh, I didn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,288 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    So you don't have any examples of where the other words you suggested were used in this or related discussion then, that's grand.

    As with the other poster, I'm unaffected by inference or emotional "think of the children/trans people" arguments. It's wasted on me when discussing a topic that proposes censorship and sanction based on (from what I can see) no real evidence of any problem or examples of who was offended and why by the allegedly problematic posts.

    Until that changes and examples provided that we can discuss, it's just white noise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,941 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Really? Strange you included it in your username, so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,818 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Boards already doesn't allow the abuse of trans people, we're being asked to accept the opinions of trans activists to dictate the use of bland descriptions that describe trans people in the most dull and non insulting means possible as now being the apex of abusive language.

    I'm seeing people who I have observed over the years banging every ultra far left wing drum imaginable posting on this thread absolutely enraged by the barrage of anti trans hatred they perceive to be present that they cannot provide any evidence of.

    The problem is that the far left have an enormous foothold on this site and have done for a very long time. They don't see how they could be perceived as extremists but the bloody well are.

    You're all for being nice to everyone, except people you disagree with because they're automatically the far right somehow because what else could they be if they don't agree with you?

    I detest racists, homophobes, misogynists, xenophobic idiots and people who abuse trans people. I have had skin in that game for decades as a member of my family has been trans for a very long time, I've met more trans people than most of the posters here and have listened to their opinions, like when T was being added to the LGB acronym, I heard trans people being confused by transgenderism being lumped in with people's sexual orientation, being trans isn't a sexual preference and the radicalisation of trans activism hasn't helped normal trans people who just want to live their bloody lives in peace one iota.

    I'm sick and tired of seeing idiots who haven't had to deal with the reality of a person close to them transitioning and supporting that person grandstanding on the use of polite language as a form of abuse. To be quite honest I think most people here moaning about this stuff are full of crap and are only interested in themselves and how they feel.

    It takes a nasty strain of narcissism to insert yourself into a situation that has absolutely fvcking nothing to do with you and assume to lecture others on it.

    I don't see why long time users of this site who have nothing but respect for other people's dignity and can prove that with decades worth of posting need to be bullied by a bunch of self serving pseudo intellectual left wing activists into not being allowed to use reasonable language to discuss a sensitive and complex topic.

    You don't get to dictate how people express themselves to that extent.

    The absolute hubris of you and anyone supporting that notion is nauseating.

    Glazers Out!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    You are unaffected by the 'think of the trans people', on a thread that is entirely about thinking about trans people? About how they are affected about offensive terms directed at them? Perhaps you shouldn't be posting then?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,941 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    That's an aliens thing.

    You used it as an aggressive male connotation to belittle my opinion. I am not okay with that.

    Can we add that to your non existent list?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    This isn't Personal Affairs were someone can ask a mod to close a thread. And even if I did request that (which I won't) I'd then be accused of shutting down discussion !

    Besides, how this thread has progressed actually confirms everything I said in my original post. That transphobia and transphobic language is being allowed to go unchecked on Boards and the mods / admin team should do something about it.

    But given how on another thread today it has come to light that the system that is supposed to generate emails to mods based on reports hasn't worked properly since last August, it's no wonder the place has spiralled downwards as it has.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,327 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Why have you put the word research on quotes?

    I've done as you asked and that's what the research has thrown up. You don't like the result, let us know the terms your own research has thrown up.

    You have the neck to tell me that I've missed things on thread.....says the person who's failed on numerous occasions to clarify the broad accusations they have brought against the many fine users of this site.

    No one knows who you are accusing of transphobia because you've not even outlined the words that you deem to be transphobic.

    ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,941 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    It really hasn't confirmed anything!

    Point out one post. Just one that's transphobic.

    Feck it, half of one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Because I question that you're posting in good faith.

    A simple google will tell you what defines transphobia, and what terms are considered offensive to transgender people, yet seemingly the most offensive one you could find was one that is not used to describe transgender people at all?

    And missed all my posts about it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,288 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Still going with the "responding to things that weren't actually said" approach eh? Did you find any links to people using those other words you suggested earlier?

    But nope, I'm unaffected by inference of - isms, - phobics, or false equivalence arguments on a topic proposing to filter or censor words (and thus the underlying discussion) based on - from what I can see - little more than one poster's personal dislike of opinions that they disagree with, but can't/are unwilling to provide examples of same.

    Are you suggesting that only posts validating this thus far unsubstantiated claim should be offered? Or is it just ones that agree with the aforementioned Helen Lovejoy style emotionalism that you agree with?

    If you or anyone else wants to provide clear examples of the posts or terms that are allegedly offensive, can explain logically why that is, and whom they are offensive to and support that, I'm very happy to have a discussion about it. I agree it's a very important thing to get right.

    But that onus is on the one making the claim in the first place or anyone else suggesting there's a "problem" needing review, not those responding to the claims.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,327 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Why wouldn't I be posting in good faith?

    Have I been transphobic? Would you care to label specific posters on this thread as transphobic?

    My Google search showed up the word cisgender as potentially problematic.. I do know some people that are offended by the word.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,698 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    I ignored it earlier because it was just irrelevant, but the above is ripe AF when taken in conjunction with this point from your earlier post -

    Everything said here that isn't full square behind the trans activism point of view is taken way out of context and used as a means of character assassination of the poster they're quoting.

    To address your attempted character assassination though (because the rest of your post is irrelevant) -

    You're all for being nice to everyone, except people you disagree with because they're automatically the far right somehow because what else could they be if they don't agree with you?

    I’m not all for being nice to everyone, I’m all for being civil and treating other people with respect and dignity, even more so when I disagree with them because that’s when it actually matters. It’s easy to be civil and respectful to people I agree with, much more difficult with those people I don’t agree with. People are many things if they don’t agree with me, and “far right” or “far left” aren’t the first things that come to mind 😂

    You don't get to dictate how people express themselves to that extent.

    The absolute hubris of you and anyone supporting that notion is nauseating.


    I couldn’t be less interested in dictating how anyone expresses themselves, to any extent. It’s a good thing I appear to have managed to stay off your radar because you appear to be talking over my head, directing your spiel at someone who isn’t me. I’m not a proxy for your… what way did you put it again? Ah - “insane ultra aggressive emotive waffle”. What I do have an interest in though, and I make no excuses for being invested in it, is ensuring that Boards isn’t used as a platform to promote bigotry, hatred and violence towards any individuals or groups in Irish society.

    I don’t imagine that’s asking a lot of Boards, do you? No need to go throwing the baby out with the bath water or pretending that posters are being censored (or indeed censured) for expressing an opinion, no need for any of that playing the victim crap, just an expectation of a standard of integrity and decency and civility is all. There’s no need to pretend like that’s lunatics taking over the asylum or anything else. Just an expectation of being treated with the same dignity and respect which is afforded and expected of ALL users of the site, who agreed to those terms and conditions when they signed up to it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,818 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Everyone you disagree with is wrong and you're the hero in your own narrative as always.

    I've seen enough of your posting to know you're happy to row in behind the left wing extremists of boards.

    Like the rest of them, you're desperate to shut down the ability of anyone you disagree with to even express their opinion.

    I don't need to attempt to assassinate your character, every pithy take down you aim at me and others lays out your personality for all to see.

    I shared personal experiences germaine to this topic and described the as irrelevant.

    Why? Because your opinion of yourself if more important than any trans person you claim to be on the side of.

    This is the problem with this push to censor perfectly polite language. It's about you what you want. You don't want open discussion, you want to see your boot on the neck of your enemies.

    Again, hubris is the best description that can be attempted to describe the motivation for pushing this type of censorship.

    Glazers Out!



This discussion has been closed.
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