BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Single deckers are cheaper to but then double deckers and they would use less fuel.

Dublin Bus got rid of the single deckers as part of Network Direct as they saw a big decrease in passengers numbers when the recession hit and a big reduction in fare income and thus had to significantly reduce the number of routes, drivers and buses in the fleet. The purpose of Network Direct was to allow the reduction in drivers and fleet size while trying to maintain the busiest part of the service, thus the focus on the double decker fleet.

It was the correct decision for the time, however that didn't mean that single deckers wouldn't return to the fleets as the network grew again and in particular covered much quieter outer local routes.

I'm aware that salaries are the biggest cost, but that doesn't change that there is money to be saved by buying some single deckers.

Keep in mind, the salaries come out of Dublin Bus/GAI budget, while the cost of buses comes out of the NTA budget. Different budgets, buses are a big cost for the NTA. The new BEV buses have cost a lot extra, so if they can save a bit elsewhere on single deckers, it can balance the budget.

There are many routes around Dublin that even at peak times won't come anywhere near filling even a single decker. It would be a waste to buy and put DD's on them.

I thought it was about providing a decent public service not saving money. If it's all about saving money why not buy single door double deckers rather dual door buses single door buses are cheaper than dual doored buses. Btw I'm not advocating for single door buses in fact the opposite I'm just saying their cheaper than dual door buses.

Not so much about "saving money", but more about not wasting it. The NTA is given only so much budget from the government to spend on public transport, they have to pick and choose which projects to allocate it on.

So lets say they spend extra money on all double deckers for GAI, the capacity which then never gets used. But now they have less money to say replace the single decker buses in Cork city that are still used on much busier routes.

Spend the money on DD's for GAI or buy more mini buses for expanding local link services around the country.

Now the public has a worse public service because you gold plated the GAI fleet in a way that almost never gets used.

I don't agree with the model of having the NTA buy the buses directly. It would be imo if the NTA provide the funding and decide on the spec but let the operators themselves pick the actual model bus they want to suit their needs. This is how it works in London the buses are bought and owned by the operators but have to meet TFLs specifications.

Actually London is a hybrid model, while most buses are owned by the operators, over 1,000 of them are actually owned directly by TFL and lent out to the operators, just like the NTA.

Actually TFL's directly owned fleet is larger then the NTA's

Frankly Ireland is too small for multiple operators making their own small orders of buses, by the NTA polling the resources, they can make larger single orders and get a level of scale and deals that small orders wouldn't get. In other words, it would be even more costly for 3 or 4 separate smaller orders then one big order.

Even then we just barely compete. The NTA framework for the Electroliners is 800, meanwhile over in the UK GA have just ordered 1,200 of the same bus!

Okay there's routes that don't really require double deckers but the buses that operate on these routes also operate on routes that do require double deckers and anyway GAIs single decker routes often get double deckers operating on them so it's not like their strictly single deck only.

Often? I certainly haven't seen it happen often and it certainly isn't reported as such here.

The other issue is parts much cheaper and more efficient to have one bus type from the same manufacturer than have multiple bus types from different manufacturers. Although this depends on operator and how maintenance is done I believe Dublin Bus keep a large inventory of parts where GAI order parts when needed.could be some of the reason for GAIs current maintenance issues.

But that goes against what you were just saying two paragraphs ago, about leaving bus purchases to operators! If you did that you would end up with different operators with potentially different models and fleets and more parts problems.

Since the NTA took over purchasing things have become far more consistent, with far less fleet types then the DB days where they seemed to buy a new model type almost every other year!

But not just DB, the NTA also buys the same buses for GAI and more significantly BE city services now too.

The SG's massively dominate the fleet now and the GT's are pretty similar, all NTA purchases. It looks like the Electroliners will be as big as the SG and maybe even surpass that.

It feels like we are heading to a consistency of Electroliner for DD fleets, while the Enviro200EV's for the single deckers. Two different fleet types, but very high level of consistency within the different form factor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not crazy about the streetlites as a bus or their single door. The Enviro200EV seems to be a step in the right direction, though perhaps not perfect either. I'm more talking about the general concept that it is okay to have some single deckers.