Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

German foreign minister 'leaked' news that the quickly assembled EU meeting about the new political situation around the Ukraine war resulted in an immense weapons assistance package for Ukraine of previously unspoken dimensions. The number of 700 billion was mentioned and originally it was said this must not be communicated before the elections in Germany next Sunday.

https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/wirtschaft-verantwortung/baerbock-verplappert-sich-nach-der-wahl-milliarden-fuer-ukraine-li.2295623

IMO this is absolutely insane. I can only assume that before the war is over due to the political shift in the US the giant scam must quickly be finalised. Clearly no shame, a giant public money package must be funnelled into the arms industry. Whether this brings us on the brink or not who cares. EU seems absolutely adamant there can be no peace and seemingly they are prepared to go all the way.

After the bank rescue and the giant scams which came with covid and to which van der Leyen to this day refuses to answer it's apparently the arms industry's turn now. The robbing of public money continues either way and no purpose seems immoral enough and all masks have slipped. I don't even know how they think they have legitimation to do this. Macron continues to construe new governments that have no resemblance with their latest election results. Scholz is facing an election next Sunday which will most likely see him ousted. The lunatics are running the asylum and the electorate is helpless to do anything about it.

Good! About time they stood up to Putin (and Trump)

Ukraine is at war with Russia.

Im all for backing Ukraine with whatever it takes to defend itself from illegal aggression and occupation.

Ukraine is losing this war and has been losing it from the start. It should never have come to this. And now the EU wants to flog a dead horse with another huge public money package, our money.

It is happening because of Ukraine wanting into NATO. And we self inflicted the so-called energy war, sanctions remember? Pipeline blown up and no one wants to know who did it, remember? Where and when was Putin appeased?

What is going on? Black is white, war is peace, the West cannot do wrong, all was happy western shiny values democracy stuff until Putin went mad? Do people really believe this Orwell stuff?

Putin wanted to invade Ukraine, however he couldn't do that if Ukraine was in NATO. As a type of perverse reasoning he used that to justify invading Ukraine. Hitler used the same trick to validate invading neighbours, claiming their defensive alliance was "threatening" and "encircling" Nazi Germany.

As for the energy war, you're right it was partially self inflicted. For example, Germany's literal doctrine was to make Russia and Germany so economically intertwined that any future war was impossible. We ignored all the warning signs and grew fat on cheap Russian energy. Even after 2014, we pulled a few half measures so as not to "anger" Putin. Obama was reluctant as hell to do anything that might provoke Putin.

>What is going on?

Putin invaded Ukraine. Hitler invaded Poland. Europe, to relative degrees, appeased it's way into both situations. Hindsight is 20/20.

Look at the fate of Belarus, a corrupt tyranny, a dictator propped up by Russian military… that is the fate Russia has in mind for Ukraine, Baltics, Moldova, Georgia etc
Russia sent in its military there, there was no prospect of Belarus would join NATO, merely that it would no longer be a vassal state.

Russian violations of Budapest agreement with Ukraine started Ukraine was considering a treaty with the EU.

Positive proof Russia's attempts to dominate its neighbours have nothing to do with NATO.

It wishes to be surrounded by vassal states, not neutrals. The considered actions of Sweden and Finland in looking to join NATO is further proof of this - they recognised that Russia would not respect their neutral status with a pro-Western\EU polity.

The height of nonsense is confusing 2014 with 2022.

The US and NATO had their eye on some missile sites, right up against the Ukraine border with Russia.

That clown Zelensky could see big handouts for missile sites, and was all in.

Putin and Russia had other ideas,, and now Ukraine is down a million men, and the US is down $600 Billion.

So it all worked out in the end.

Christ that 'other' thread has a lot to answer for. The stuff people are openly spinning these days is mind blowing. Presumably the same people who accuse others of 'misinformation'. For the people who think Russia's army is crumbling and the Ukrainian endsieg is just around the corner I fear your Telegram does not correspond with what the mainstream thinks how things are going.

Probably true but if he did he would be castigated as a war mongering interfering overreactor by many in Europe and the US too.

When one sees the representatives of Trump and Putin meeting in Saudi Arabia today (and with Musk heaping praise on the Russians last night), can anyone believe for a moment that Ukraine are the bad guys in all this?

It certainly looks like the US has become an 'adversary' under Trump at this point - somebody you couldn't really call a friend or ally.