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FI Charts ( T120+ onwards) Winter 2024/2025 **READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Captain Snow


    What a run. Winter has arrived in style.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    Mod Note: Just remember to post in appropriate thread, this thread is for Charts T120+ onwards .

    More current content in the winter thread or Charts up to T120hrs.

    Thanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)


    Extensive snow cover across much of Europe in the 12z GFS. It appears, however, that the op run is a cold outlier. The ensembles mean is milder than previous runs with a fired up Jetstream driving Atlantic lows towards Ireland leading to a 4-5 day cold snap from New Year's Day. There will be further chopping and changing no doubt.

    gfsnh-16-312.png gens-31-0-186.png graphe3_00000_73_22___.png

    The 12z doubles down on the 0z regarding an encroaching Atlantic low bringing milder conditions to Ireland by the end of next weekend. Still plenty of colder outcomes in the mix but temps are heading ⬆️ overall.

    www.weatheire.com



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    GFS 12z is going close to a 2 week cold spell but in reality I think we'll be doing well to get a full week out of it. Much better than the 6z which had a bit of a wobble. In about an hour we should know how the 12z operational is performing against all the other GFS members.

    Also worth noting the AO forcast is really tanking negative over the next week, almost record breakingly so, and the NAO also going moderately negative so northern blocking is going to be very much in business for the first half of January.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    If I was a betting man atm I would go for cold Wed to sat, turning milder slowly from sunday.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭esposito


    Kermit, Where are you? Could do with an update to get your perspective on the 12z’s.

    @Billcarson I would take a cold period Wed to Sun 5th Jan if it meant we got a dumping of snow for Dublin and wherever you are. However I am getting greedy now and want this cold spell to be prolonged and memorable! As per Gonzo post what gives me hope of this happening is the AO tanking and more importantly the NAO staying negative.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    looking at the 12z the operational run isn't well supported from January 5th onwards, Icon also turns it much milder from the 5th, a bit like the GFS 6z. The ECM 12z will be very important as the ECM 6z supports a more prolonged cold spell compared to the GFS and Icon, let's see does the ECM 12z change things to keeps things cold up towards mid January. Still alot to be resolved over the next few days with the length of this cold spell, could be anywhere from 3 days to a week but I think anything beyond a week is at the moment unlikely unless we see a big shift in the models to a prolonged cold spell on tomorrows runs.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    GFS 12z continues to show a substantial warming taking place but not an SSW, however the warming looks significant and extensive. The PV doing everything it can to stay in business but if warmings like this persist past mid January the PV will come under alot of pressure, could we see an SSW before the end of January?

    PV currently

    Untitled Image

    PV January 9th.

    Untitled Image

    We Finish up mid January with another warming taking place over Europe merging with the warming over Sibera and the PV displaced over the United States and Canada.

    Untitled Image

    IF we were to roll on an extra few days this could potentially enter the poles and split the PV into 2 lobes. This is something I'd love to see before the end of January as SSWs in February are generally too late and affect the Spring rather than the tale end of Winter.

    In my eyes the past few days has been the most interesting winter related model watching we have had since January/February 2018.

    NAO/AO forecast has updated and the AO now not looking at record breakingly negative as yesterday but still a fairly moderate negative signal for the start of January.

    Untitled Image

    NAO not much change since yesterday, looking relatively negative and for us that's important in the potential for northern blocking to affect our part of the world.

    Untitled Image


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Kermit was busy writing the introduction summary in a story that is still evolving, he has opened a dedicated thread for this upcoming cold spell!.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,880 ✭✭✭pureza


    nice to see but a word of caution,charts at Xmas time often take a while to level out from missing data

    Take a look at threads here from early January 2007 for a prolonged lynching of the poor misfortunate cold spell weather watcher



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)


    The GEM and GFS models suggest cold conditions will persist into next week, while the ECM favours a a slightly milder outcome within 5-7 days. Turning much colder from tomorrow night.

    ecm.gif graphe_ens4buw5.php.gif grapherwj1.php.png

    www.weatheire.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)


    An illustration of the impact of a high pressure system over Greenland on keeping Atlantic systems at bay by diverting the jetstream.The 06z GFS 850 hPa temperatures is used for illustration.

    I can't post videos here so I uploaded to Twitter

    Post edited by WolfeEire on

    www.weatheire.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,830 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    I can’t remember who said on the general thread but for twitter links, replace x with twitter and it works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)


    The ICON 12z makes more of the blocking over the North Atlantic (does not drift westward like previously), which serves to flatten any low pressure systems pushing out of Newfoundland. 12Z and 00z below for comparison. The cold polar airmass remains in place over Ireland into next week.

    icon-0-156.png icon-0-168.png

    www.weatheire.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭John.Icy


    Huge differences between the GFS and UKMO at Day 5-7.

    If you want a nice cold spell, you want GFS to come up trumps.

    Onto the ECM 12z for some clarity?

    Not much chat from me yet. I think the blocking on the GFS is being over done for now, something common the last few years. That type of WAA building to a big booming greenie block, 99/100 never that clean or strong. We wish! Blocking to our NW on the likes of ICON, Aperge, GEM is much weaker and where I'd put money. Or else a halfway house. There's been 2-3 Greenland blocks in recent years at this time range that had all the lovely yellows/oranges on the charts before they ended up a shadow of what was originally modelled and ultimately the block wasn't able to hold back Atlantic lows. A quirk of the charts we have to temper excitement for.

    Interesting looking at 12z Day 5 verification stats, the GEM is now no.2, though still no.3 behind ECM and UKMO on the 0z. GEM has been 'better' than GFS for some time now, but for whatever reason has never managed to become part of the big 3.

    If the GFS were to come to fruition though - we could be on the cusp of a big one folks.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Just looking at the 12z and it appears to be setting up something much more interesting than the upcoming cold dry spell. This is still an evolving situation that may or may not lead to something much more easterly and snowy based. I really hope the GFS is on to something here and I'm going to stick with the GFS as that is the model I've trusted the most over the past year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)


    the GEFS mean looking good. Greenland.block doing a job on keeping Atlantic largely at bay

    gens-31-1-162.png gens-31-3-156.png

    www.weatheire.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,604 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    A good illustration that. Thanks.

    That's true a halfway house solution likely won't cut it for us. As you say we have seen too often blocking being over done in Greenland only for it to be far weaker or it gets pulled too far west which allow systems to sneak across the Atlantic and join up with an azores low. One thing I have noticed is when we get a noticeable cold spell parts of Canada goes relatively milder by their standards.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    this is looking very interesting but it is over 2 weeks away.

    Untitled Image

    GFS finishes up January 15th with us still in mostly sub zero temperatures and snow risk increasing, we shall see.

    I don't know about snow over the next few weeks but we're certainly going to see alot of frost and expensive heating bills.

    CFS keeps us locked in the freezer until January 18th/19th.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,604 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    If the ECM experimental model backs it this evening, then we could be on to something. A cold and snowy spell in the heart of winter is the holy grail. I'd take a cold and snowy spell at anytime, but a cold spell in mid to late Februrary just isn't the same as one in January. Let's have fog rising over snowfields in the evening and a pink hue to the skyline in the next couple of weeks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭icesnowfrost


    IMG_4703.png

    nice warming in the strat mid month. All things MIGHT be setting up for what Potentially could be a cold month.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    It's entirely possible that we could be looking at a close to 0C CET January but everything would have to fall in place perfectly and second half of January to be also mostly in the freezer. Currently the CFS and GFS keeps it very cold up to mid month. All eyes on the all important ECM 12z to see does it fall more in line with the GFS and CFS. I'm guessing that the second half of January will turn much milder but you never knew, we could be entering a fairly prolonged cold spell here.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Icon 12z has given up on the swift return to mild.

    Untitled Image Untitled Image


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 126 ✭✭zisdead


    Was it not the CFS model that had the Uber mild December nailed on about 1 month in advance? Will it get this cold January correct like it is currently modelling. Let's see.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    GFS 12z is in the middle of the pack in terms of cold, sometimes on the warmer end, many of the GFS ensemble members go and stay colder than the 12z operational run.

    Untitled Image

    After we get the rain out of the way on New Years Day a mostly dry signal after that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)


    ECM an improvement on 00z and a step towards toward GFS

    www.weatheire.com



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    CFS monthly charts for January are issued every day throughout December and we just had the last one today and if the CFS is correct it's forecasting a colder than average January for us with blocking close to Greenland for the majority of the month, this is rarity and something we rarely see from the CFS.

    GFS 12z is one of the milder GFS runs and becomes a bit of a mild outlier the further on we go into January.

    Icon turns it slightly milder for the weekend and then reloads the cold from Monday and into next week.

    GEM is cold until Monday/Tuesday and then surges a blowtorch southerly directly very far northwards into the second half of next week which in turn builds a Scandinavian high and has a very cold and unstable easterly right at the end which could affect us further down the line.

    Absolute model chaos going on right now. An absolute forecasting nightmare.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 250 ✭✭Condor24


    GFS latest is a horror show from the 12th. The Atlantic/Greenland high sinks over us eventually and then over the continent. The dreaded Euro high, pumping mild damp dross over us. But it's still aways away, we cling on.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭esposito


    I really wouldn’t worry about it that far out. With a negative NAO and negative AO it’s unlikely that will verify. Try keep positive and enjoy the upcoming cold spell which could produce some nice surprises for us snow fans.



This discussion has been closed.
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