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FI Charts ( T120+ onwards) Winter 2024/2025 **READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 182 ✭✭Who Ate The Cat




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    There hasn't been a decent one in my opinion since 2018 and that was a very good winter. We got close to some good winters since but just couldn't get all the ingredients to line up correctly. This winter was 1/3th bland, 1/3th misery due to wind, cold rain (too much snow in the South-West), nationwide powercuts, some people without power, water or internet for up to a month. Since then we've had 2 weeks without any sun until today and a nasty damp windchill that felt far colder than any proper northerly or easterly while at the same time producing no ice, frost or snow. Now we're back to the conveyer belt so a fairly horrible winter this year for many people for different reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,345 ✭✭✭Rebelbrowser


    I had a lot more car frosts this year than most for what it’s worth!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Can we keep this thread purely for Chart discussion please. (always wanted to say that).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭ClimateObserver


    Atlantic in full control right out to the end of the 00Z run.

    It does turn cooler overall, and even cool enough for some snow across northern hills. Typical weather for this time of year. At least with a W to NW based zonal flow after this initial mild and wet spell, there are opportunities for sunny spells, showers and some inland overnight frosts.

    Nothing to get excited about though.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 244 ✭✭Ros4Sam24


    Strongest signal for a stratosphere warming all winter. You couldn’t write it! Far too late 😢

    IMG_0404.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,280 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    Yes and if it does get colder maybe only -3c shame it's not January but let's see anyway I ain't getting excited as we go into March days are 10 ½ hours long and by 17th it will be 12 hours so



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)


    Despite a largely bright and sunny Saturday, the current spell of unsettled weather looks set to continue into the opening days of March.Ireland remains in an Atlantic zonal setup with low pressure systems to our west and high pressure to our south resulting in rain and strong winds at times.

    Sunday will bring strong to gale force winds and heavy rain that will clear to scattered showers on Sunday afternoon.

    Next week will bring higher than average precipitation amounts while temperatures will be slightly above the seasonal average at 8-11c.

    More widespread rain is expected on Wednesday and Thursday, but there will be good dry spells during Monday, Tuesday and Friday.

    Next weekend into the beginning of March looks more unsettled with higher than average precipitation levels and above average temperatures.Western and northwestern counties likely to see the heaviest rainfall and strongest winds over the next two weeks.The below graph shows air temperatures, pressure and precipitation levels for the next 16 days.

    unsettled.jpg

    www.weatheire.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 244 ✭✭Ros4Sam24


    Have been watching the ensembles gently nudge towards a bit more settled weather instead of Atlantic onslaught from next weekend. We are looking for 1020hpa at least for something dryer 🌦️

    IMG_0407.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,409 ✭✭✭endainoz


    Nice to see some positive stuff anyway, hopefully it'll pan out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)


    The GFS continues to show the Polar Vortex becoming stretched, at the very least, by the end of the first week of March.

    animnqx0.gif

    www.weatheire.com



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    All the modelling for the warming events have been very poor this winter, none of the charts have verified and I hope this upcoming potential for an SSW doesn't happen, it's far too late at this point and if it does verify we could be in for a very chilly April and possibly May like a few years ago with hard frosts into mid May and cold rain showers with some sleetyness on the hills, something nobody really wants for the mid to second half of Spring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭esposito


    Same old story isn’t it. Always too late for a SSW. Really hope it does not happen although because it’s almost Spring, it probably WILL happen!

    Why can’t we get this in December/ January.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    if that verified for april and first two weeks of may, wouldnt that be 3 tough springs of rain and cold in a row? i cant rememeber exactly what spring 2022 was like? was spring 2021 the last really good one?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,896 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Its a concern alright - a repeat of spring/summer 2024 would be very grim indeed:(



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)


    My take on the next 7-9 days

    Long range outlook overview:Rainfall totals will be below average for the time of year over the next 7 days. Parts of the southeast may remain completely dry with only trace amounts in other parts of Leinster and east Munster. Totals will be highest over the northwest, but even here rainfall amounts will remain below average. Sunshine will be above average everywhere and temperatures will be close to normal up to the weekend before rising above normal for the early days of next week.
    Today:Scattered showers will continue this afternoon, but long clear spells will develop away from Ulster, north Leinster and north Connacht. Showers will continue to affect Ulster this evening and could merge to give a longer spell of rain here for a time. It will remain dry elsewhere with spells of sunshine. Top temperatures of 5 to 8c in moderate westerly winds.
    Tonight:Showers will become isolated overnight as winds fall light. Temperatures will dip close to or below freezing in many places. Top temperatures of -2c to 4c, mildest in Atlantic coastal areas.
    Thursday:Showers will largely affect western and northern areas on Thursday but even here there will be long spells of sunshine in a gentle north-westerly breeze. Temperatures will range between 7 and 9c. A frost will set in on Thursday night away from the Atlantic coastal areas.
    Friday:After a cold start to the day, sunny spells will be widespread across Ireland. Temperatures will range from 6c to 9c in a gentle to moderate southerly wind. It will cloud over from the west on Friday evening. It will be cold in the eastern half of Ireland on Friday night, but temperatures will lift slowly.
    Weekend:Scattered outbreaks of rain will develop in the west on Saturday morning will drift across the country but will become light and patch as it does so. Parts of the southeast and east may stay completely dry. Temperatures will range from 5c in the northeast to 10c along the west coast. Sunday will be a largely dry day across Ireland with sunny spells developing away from the northwest coast.
    Next Week:High pressure located close to the south of Ireland will keep our weather largely dry for the early days of next week. Westerly winds will pick up by mid-week as high pressure weakens allowing Atlantic systems to approach from the southwest. Temperatures will be 1-2c above average for the time of year, but frost may develop in sheltered inland locations. There will be little rain between Monday and Wednesday.
    Our weather looks like becoming increasingly unsettled later next week and into the middle of March with spells of rain at times and temperatures remaining above normal for the time of year.

    www.weatheire.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)


    The GFS is not letting up on the prospect of colder air in the polar stratosphere becoming displaced by the end of next week, which, if such an outcome were to verify, would deliver colder conditions to mid-latitude regions like Europe, USA and Eurasia.

    With just 3 days to go until the beginning of the meteorological spring, the last thing you want to see in long range weather model output is the possibility of a Polar Vortex (PV) split or Sudden Stratospheric Warming (SSW).

    The PV is a band of strong westerly winds that forms in the stratosphere between about 10km and 50km miles above the North Pole every winter. When the vortex weakens, shifts, or splits, the polar jet stream often becomes extremely wavy, allowing warm air to flood into the Arctic and polar air to flood south. In the case of the the latest GFS output, two lobes of cold air sink south into the mid-latitudes.

    A SSW refers to a swift jump in polar stratospheric temperatures. The warming is preceded by a slowing then reversal of the westerly winds in PV. Such disruptions of the PV can lead to cold air outbreaks in the mid-latitudes, in place like Eurasia, Europe and the United States.

    Despite there having been an estimated 25 major SSW events during the past 40 years, a relatively small number have led to a severe cold outcome in Ireland. For example, a major SSW around February 10th, 2018, produced the infamous Beast From The East of late February and early March that year. A SSW in January 2019 had little impact on Ireland's weather, which, in fact, remained relatively mild for the rest of the meteorological winter. Another SSW in January 2021 produced cold conditions in Ireland and Britain, but it was much less severe that the 2018 outcome.

    Should the latest output from the GFS model verify, it would take another 2 to 3 weeks for the impact of a PV split and any accompanying SSW to be felt in the mid-latitudes. By then, we are looking at a risk of cold weather after mid-month into early April, an outcome nobody wishes to see materialise.

    animdys3.gif

    www.weatheire.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭highdef


    In the event that such a SSW resulted in winds originating from the east (Russia direction), at what point in the year do those winds go from being bitterly cold to be warm or even hot, notwithstanding that the Irish Sea results in Eastern parts being rather cool during late Spring and into early summer even when we have a warm easterly. Plus there are other variables to consider.

    But an easterly in March or April is usually a a fairly cold airmass but the same winds from the same place in July/August/September will almost always be warm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)


    The impact of an Easterly airmass on us is ultimately influenced by how entrenched cold, bland or warm air is over the continent. The recent easterly didn't produce deep cold as Europe was not very cold. Beast in 2018 produced deep cold because Europe was already in the freezer. The growing strength of the heat from the sun is absorbed by large landmasses as we enter spring and the chances of a severe cold spell from an easterly diminish as we head into mid-March on. The fetch of the airmass becomes diluted further by a warming Irish sea. Your best chance of tapping directly into a cold airmass in late March or early April is from the north or north northeast. April 1st 1917 a case in point.

    www.weatheire.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    Watching the charts this time of year is nerve wracking, a repeat of last year is not what gardeners & farmers need. I sowed too soon last spring and had to protect growth for a lot longer than normal and lost a fair bit.

    If a SSW happens here’s hoping it does not amount to anything.

    “The fact that society believes a man who says he’s a woman, instead of a woman who says he’s not, is proof that society knows exactly who is the man and who is the woman.”

    - Jen Izaakson



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Once we get towards the second half of February I've no interest left in an SSW by that point as several more weeks need to pass before any possible impacts are felt and by that stage we're into the second half of March. An SSW is something we crave for late December to early February but after that it's too late to impact winter and SSW's in March usually result in a cold wet Spring which is something nobody wants.

    As for the question when does an easterly become warm and for us it's usually mid June to mid September.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭Lucreto


    A good thing about the SSW even at this time of year is it gets rid of the polar vortex a lot quicker.

    We are usually feeling the effects of the collapsing potal vortex June, July, August. We get stuck on the wrong side of the jet stream with the cold air as it dissipates.

    If it dissipates earlier we more likely to see some of the heatwave temperatures.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,928 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    That is the case indeed for the east coast where we often feel the legacy of winter with a slow time lag in the Irish Sea warming up.

    However, there have been plenty of cases of very warm easterly winds as early as April for much of the country. In April 2003 for instance during the Easter period, parts of the west had 4 consecutive days of 23C or above. Belmullet reached 24.2C on 17th April, Holy Thursday. The chart for that day shown below. In fairness though, the airmass beneath the ridge was very warm too so even on the east coast we got highs of 18C away from the immediate coastline which are significantly above the April average.

    image.png

    Yes, whilst the stratospheric polar vortex tends to hibernate through mid to late spring and not return until late August, its state during the spring can have an effect on the North Atlantic Oscillation phase of the succeeding summer. A slow descent or gradual final warming tends to either be more favourable of a positive NAO which is better for dry and warmth in summer though no guarantee (2024 last year being a prime example) whilst a more rapid final warming will be more favoured to producing a negative NAO which normally translates to more unsettled conditions and sometimes cool. There was a very dynamic final stratospheric warming through the second half of April 2019 which led into a record breaking May -NAO producing similar effects to a major mid-winter warming and this persisted through the summer giving an unsettled season though a warm, dry July inbetween.

    Ideally if we are to see any major SSW that it will occur early and or a final SSW to be non-dynamic. An early final warming does not necessarily spell bad news for summer. 2022 had an early final warming in March and with the exception of a changeable May/June, the March-August period of 2022 produced a lot of fine settled weather.

    If anybody is interested, here's the paper discussing the effects of the state of the stratospheric polar vortex through the spring on the summer NAO.

    Skillful predictions of the Summer North Atlantic Oscillation

    Photography site - https://sryanbruenphoto.com/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Robwindstorm


    Sorry this is probably not the appropriate thread, but this is where the tech nerds hang out 🤓 .

    Was there any unusual atmospheric conditions that contributed to the coldest March on record, 2013. The cold went into April. It's the only time I observed ivy singed brown on the trees facing the constant harsh easterlies.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo




This discussion has been closed.
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