Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

I am suggesting by extending the Rent a Room scheme it allows renters save for a property of their own. Out of the three parties involved in renting a property who makes the most out of it?

The State! They collect tax, people are housed and the landlord takes the risks be it fall in property prices, non payment of rent, maintenance costs etc.

?

A landlord rents out his full property and the rent is paid the same fashion as the rent a room scheme. Keep rent below a certain fig you pay no tax. Charge above this fig you pay tax on all of it.

Why are they unemployed

You will always do better owning your own home. The problem is nobody will hand it to you on a plate. It takes effort and scarfice and you cannot spend 10 years acting the ballox. You cannot get to 30-35, and decide with your GF/partner well we need a home without an arse in your jeans. You could get away with that from 1995-2005 and from 2010-2015, but other than then you have to pay the piper

You first.

With benefit oh hindsight, average house price Dublin 2009 this time of year 278K (1) now it’s 568K (2)
that’s 108% increase

S&P500 was 1100 then and 6000 now that’s 445% increase

So whoever higher up made the claim that houses are better investment that pensions is wildly wrong

Even if one didn’t avail of pension and all the tax advantages those offers and invested with similar amounts back then into an index fund even after fees and our insane capital gains, they would have now the money not only for same house but 2-3 more for their kids

(1)

http://www.irishlifeandpermanent.ie/media/press-releases/2010/20-01-2010.aspx

(2)

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/09/18/house-prices-now-rising-at-annual-rate-of-10/

You obviously are not old enough to remember our own crash and people saying exactly what you are saying there shortly before the crash only to endup with massive debts and negative equity around their necks that took 15 years to erode and no flexibility to move jobs to

Getting serious 2005 vibes from this thread now

The thing I've learned about know it alls, is that in the end, they know nothing.

All the best.

That is a problem but we also seen how quickly hundreds of thousands of people can also leave this country and not return (or come in first place)

That’s not what i am arguing against, it’s the dangerous meme being spread about pensions which even on our highly investment hostile country still remains one of the best long term investment options for average person, especially compared to housing here

People in Ireland viewing property as an investment is a bigger problem both on the up and the downside

The Devil can quite scripture for his own use. The S&P has had huge variation here is it historical indexes

https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-data

You took 2009, if you take 2000 the index was at approx 1425 and the average this year is approx 5330 so a 325% return not sure what tge annual dividend average would be problems than 2%.

In 2000 you have bought a decent house in a decent area in Dublin for about 100K. Today that house is probably worth 6-800k. Rental income would have averaged 4-5% of it value over the time frame. At present average rent in Dublin is probably 1k/ bedspaces that is 36k/anum for a 3 bed semiD which is 5% of present value at 700k. So over a 20 year span that property has returned 700% and an annualised dividend of 4-5% of its value probably

Property is usually a good investment, it's where real wealth is created for a lot of the upper earning middle class. However I be reluctant to invest in it through a pension fund . You have better leveraging option outside a pension fund.

You haven't a clue. It was far easier to get on the ladder in 05, banks would lend to anything with a heartbeat.

And even those people who bought in 05,06,07 are still better off now than if they hadn't bought at all.

Time in the market > timing the market

This was examined earlier in the year from the period 2002 to 2022 on Irish national house prices. The period incorporated 2 bubbles and 1 crash (not an unusual outcome for property over 20 years). The capital appreciation return over this period was struggling to breach 10% if I recall correctly

Secondly many posters breach the gospel of avoiding timing the market. History has thought us the dangers of not considering it.

Very difficult of course in practical terms to time the market, this is why every state interference should be to stabilise and avoid having housing becoming a highly speculative asset. Unfortunately the state is the greatest contributer to the highly speculative nature of property over 3 decades

In 2000 you have bought a decent house in a decent area in Dublin for about 100K. Today that house is probably worth 6-800k