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The case against average speed cameras

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,909 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Kinda baffling why we refuse to automate things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Its working for a while now and the stunning thing is that they are getting 24 or so every day, despite it being flagged.

    Some as NI reg but its still mad that the signs are there and lads still speed

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,909 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Habits are hard to break. They might not know either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭ollaetta


    The choice of the M7 location was certainly odd. As another poster mentioned it's relatively one of the quietest stretches of the network and apparently has had very few accidents since it opened. What makes it completely daft though, particularly heading south is that just before the second set of cameras at the Birdhill exit there is a legal lay-by where anyone who has been going like the clappers since the first cameras can pull in and wait a few minutes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Now that is 100% daft: drive like hell, be a danger to all and then stop

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,724 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    I've never really got the logic of needing a straight stretch, no turns, for average speed cameras to work. I struggle to believe that the system will fail/ crash if some plates don't show on the second camera. Lots of R roads, even with L's and laneways off them, should be prime candidates for average speed camera's.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    If we automate things, everyone gets a ticket. If we automate things and we all know that between points A and B if you act like an idiot, that bill and penalty points will land on your doormat. God forbid we do things correctly in this country.

    Go to France, the roads that are monitored are signposted. No police, just an innocuous box on the side of the road or a camera on a post. Signs up everywhere saying, 'you're entering a camera area.' If you're caught, we'll send you the bill.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭kazamo


    If all these people perform this convey routine in the left lane like you desire, they effectively block the vehicles trying to join the motorway, thereby leading to collisions as merging traffic somehow believe they have the priority.

    Middle lane hogging is far safer than the Russian roulette when the merging traffic pull out regardless of what is in the left lane. Apparently once a merging vehicle indicates to merge or just pull outs without signals, my vehicle must immediately apply the brakes because the new entrant is the king/queen of the road and then hope the driver behind me was paying attention.

    You might disagree with it, but it is a learned behaviour brought upon by bad driving behaviour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    They should bring the speeding fines up for people who are a good bit over the limit. Anything above 15 or 20 kilometres should be hammered with a sky high fine. I regularly see lads doing 150 or 160 on the motorway.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Absolute rubbish, the vehicle merging should be up to the same speed as the traffic it's merging into, no need for anyone to apply there brakes, have you ever driven in continental Europe where people know how to drive on motorways .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,013 ✭✭✭creedp


    "On a three-lane motorway, there is an extra overtaking lane (lane 3), but you should still keep left as much as possible. i.e. don’t drive in the right lane if the middle lane (lane 2) is empty, or in the middle lane if the left lane is empty."

    Define empty? Also is the advice suggesting that if there is a regular stream of traffic joining a motorway should you remain in middle lane when in the proximity of on ramps?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,569 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    This issue should be dealt with by cameras at junctions.

    Likewise cameras should be used to identify people driving in lanes when there is long stretch of empty lane on their left.

    As for the general theme, there is no case against average speed cameras, except that they are only useful on some routes. On a route with more mixed traffic you could be driving dangerously but not exceed the speed on average.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,909 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    In some places you have to give way to merging traffic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    It would be great to put cameras everywhere but it would cost too much.


    It's not just a pole with a camera on top, Its a concrete pad with power and data which needs to be found and put in.

    It costs alot to put in a camera so you need to find the areas where they are needed the most. Rather than catch the odd one on motorways (this is where you see most speeding but it is the safest type of road)

    They should be targeting the most dangerous of roads for enforcement. They have the stats so know where these are.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,318 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    They should be targeting the most dangerous of roads for enforcement. They have the stats so know where these are.

    The RSA were withholding this data due to bogus GDPR reasons and it apparently was having a knock on effect in engineering road safety improvements.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,463 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,724 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Yes, every camera should be ANPR for any/ every offence. We normally get rubbish about check points catching other offences, but even if you buy that (I personally don't as I suspect most are related to NCT type issues anyway) it doesn't have to be either or.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭kazamo


    When drivers learn to join motorways in a safe manner you make get your utopia…….



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Bird Hill is junction 27 on the M7, so I would expect there to be at least 27 or more Av speed cameras between Limerick and Dublin that check the time a vehicle passes, checks Ins, NCT, Motor Tax. From that data any infringement, inc speeding between any two points, not necessarily adjacent, will be prosecuted, either by fixed penalty or by trip to court.

    Average speed is very powerful for enforcement - not just for speed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭kazamo


    Ah, you used the magic phrase…….”should be”. And that is at the heart of this issue.

    Yes I have travelled in many countries, Europeans know how to travel on motorways, where as here, we have a large cohort who drive to suit themselves and to hell with anyone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,013 ✭✭✭creedp


    Just likes the ROTR themselves, that's all fine and dandy in a theoretical sense. In reality, in particular in heavy traffic its not feasible much of the time and often the traffic on the off ramp is travelling faster than that on the motorway. Its like all walks of life you have to drive in accordance with the prevailing conditions and yes that includes braking on entry to a motorway when required.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,463 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    At a guess, if we automate things it has the potential to change behaviours, cause less collisions and improve our roads. By not automating things it keeps the revenue stream more steady with the only real losses being productivity and life

    24 vehicles per day might sound low but at €120 is €2,880 per day that's the equivalent of one new bike shed every 116 days

    These details should be on road signs at or near motorway exits. People should be told how to drive on a particular road rather than assuming they remember from their driving test. I don't know what it's like these days but my own driving test in 2008 never covered motorway driving



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,909 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    People not being able to merge it's also due to driver behaviour in lane 1. They simply don't let people out.

    Some countries have a rule to give way to joining traffic.

    Tbh the issue is lack of enforcement of driver behaviour. Until the Garda get on board it's not going to change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,378 ✭✭✭youtheman


    In my opinion 'average speed cameras' are designed primarily for a section of road where there are no on or off ramps between the two points, i.e. once you pass the first camera you have no option but to pass the second camera. So ideal for long sections of motorways. If you have a ramp between the 2 cameras then drivers have the option of coming off the road and bypassing the camera, which kinda defeats the purpose of the device.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,902 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It's not about being straight or without bends , it's about exits.

    You need a fixed distance without exits to allow the average speed to be calculated.

    If you have exits/entries between the cameras then you can't calculate the average speed for all the vehicles.

    If you can enter or exit without being seen by both cameras then the incentive to reduce your speed is removed.

    If I blow past the first camera but know that I am exiting before the 2nd one , why would I bother to slow down?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭phog


    In Ireland, we drive on the left. That basic principle should be adhered to on multi lane carriageways too. Too many vehicles us the middle lane of a three lane carriageway while leaving the left lane underused.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,013 ✭✭✭creedp


    You can't give way if you're in bumper to bumper traffic in the left lane and there is traffic in the middle lane. What to do? Ease off to create a space in front for the merger and have the guy behind you hit the horn and flash light while riding your rear bumper?

    Or just keep the horse blinkers on and ignore the merger forcing merger to brake and wait for a gap in traffic?

    Or mover into middle lane prior to merge point and avoid all the bullsh1t. If the latter you quickly realise that staying in the middle lane on the M50 during heavy traffic is sensible unless you are exiting in the near future. Not ideal but just driving to the prevailing conditions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,569 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Yes there is a large cohort. But 90% of those would tighten up their act if there was any real chance of enforcement. There would be hard core left who should be targetted for enforcement in other ways.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,569 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    The M50 mostly has an auxiliary lane, there are few points at which mergers would have to brake. The person in left lane can ease off gradually to leave a gap, no need for slamming on brakes either.



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