Deposit return scheme (recycling)

Excellent post. It also bugs me that the only people who know what the count is are thevreturn bunch. Sure they are never going to say the numbers are dropping as it would be an endorsement of the ridiculousness of this money grabbing circus.

…As often as I see orange juice ones of same size… or non dairy drinks like Califia oat milk. Yet they are in scope of the scheme.

Ring the council litter warden?

Ossian Smyth got a lot of the flak and the death threats, because he is the Chairman of the Committee, and only his contribution (small part thereof) was reported in the media. But anyone looking to others in the political system for comfort in their oppostion to this scheme will not find many. Just look at the composition of the Committee. Only the fringe who want to do an Irexit. Unlike MUP which was opposed by other member states, this scheme is part of an EU wide target. The Committee in their most recent meeting discussed other items such as the move to reduce food waste. And in the Re-Turn discussion, they did cover the needs of blind people and those using wheelchairs, which is of importance to this thread. And the source of the machines, with no mention of the corruption alleged here. The good or bad news is that there is Version 2 of the scheme lined up for us. Very much a work in progress.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_environment_and_climate_action/2024-04-30/

Deputy Ossian Smyth: I substantially agree with the Deputy. Reuse is better than recycling. If we can persuade people to refill plastic bottles with water, that is better than persuading them to bring back the bottles in the first place. For example, the sports clubs, GAA clubs and football clubs informed me that they could have reverse vending machines. They could,
but even better than that would be that they encourage children to refill their bottles every day
when they are at the club rather than bringing a pallet-full of plastic bottles individually for each
person. The answer to these environmental problems does not involve a single bullet. We are
doing deposit return machines. I am also sponsoring water fountains all around the country as well.

Deputy Paul Murphy: The deposit return scheme we opted gone for is in contrast to the
one in Germany, for example, where there are two Pfand systems. There is a higher Pfand system and a lower Pfand system. The higher one involves reusable bottles going back into the machine. They are not shredded, turned back into bottles and used again; they are refilled. Our system is purely one of shred bottles and then use a whole bunch of energy to turn them back into bottles. Are we locking in the use of single-use plastics?

Deputy Ossian Smyth: No. Germany had an existing reusable bottle scheme before it
introduced its deposit return scheme. They wanted to make sure the deposit return scheme
did not displace reusable containers, which are obviously better, so they set the up incentives
in such a way that people would be better off reusing than engaging in a single use. However,
people have the option of doing one or the other. The German authorities operate both schemes
in parallel. I would like to see more reuse and more refilling going on in Ireland, and we will do everything we can to move towards that.

Deputy Paul Murphy: If the Minister of State wants to see more reuse, why do we not
have, even at a minimum level, a two-tier deposit return system whereby we have reusable
bottles accepted that are reused that are not shredded and turned into different bottles? If that is
what the Minister of State says he wants to do, why has he not done it?

Deputy Ossian Smyth: One thing at a time. There were many options for what I could put
into the first version of the deposit return scheme. I could have done glass. I could have opted
for Tetra Pak products, etc. I had a million different options, but I wanted a working scheme to
launch on the day when it was meant to. I look at other countries that took more than a decade
and then did not manage to launch schemes at all. Everything is available for version 2. For example, we could do charity donations where people can opt to give their money to charity rather than take it back. We can do different products. We could do reusable products. Those are all options for version 2. I will be pushing my
officials to work on what they will launch in the next version. There will be changes happening
this year, even in May.

@dxhound5000 "Only the fringe who want to do an Irexit."

Yeah, when you haven't a leg to stand on in your argument, there's always whataboutery.

So we should put up with a shambles of a scheme because of waves imaginary bogeyman Irexit? Completely illogical desperation stuff.

What absolute nonsense. Can't defend the scheme on its own merits so have to resort to this.

The shambles of a rollout happened under Ossian Smyth's watch. He has zero excuse for not getting it right first time with regard to wheelchairs, with regard to the huge size exemption we have here versus other countries, with regard to the councils abandoning all responsibility. He has been shown to be incompetent in his brief, engaged in virtue signalling tick the boxes, rolling out a half baked scheme that is not ready, and treating the ordinary public with contempt.

So you've moved on from your desperate whataboutery about Irexit? You're just flinging irrelevent arguments out in the hope something sticks.

A nonsense slogan, desperate guff to try to conceal his own failings. No excuse for chucking out a half baked scheme in a shambolic rollout.

That's no excuse for a half baked scheme that needs public participation. He is poisoning the well.

If you are going to do a thing, do it properly. It is clear he just sees it as a box ticking exercise, doesn't care or is unable to visualise how the public will interact with the scheme.

The public have been treated by contempt by his incompetence.

Are you watching the video, or reading the PDF? I still working my way through the PDF, and I thought I should share the plan they have for Version 2.

Plan? You'd call that a plan? That's a high level overview. Planning isn't something these guys do - there's plenty evidence for this.

He may have had Scotland in mind when he said that he wanted to start the scheme at the planned date. Instead of what happened in other countries, which keep delaying the process. Sometimes the pursuit of perfection is the enemy of action. Now that millions of returns are being done every day, people will be more attuned to future additions if they happen. And it might even prompt some effort in homes to cut out the scandalous waste of food.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposit_return_scheme_%28Scotland%29

It will increase the rate like happened in Lithuania.

Lithuania implemented container deposit legislation for single-use cans and bottles in February 2016. Lithuania's program is comprehensive and charges a deposit on nearly all types of beverage containers, including those made of plastic, metal, and glass 0.1 l to 3 l. The deposit is applicable to beer and beer cocktails; cider and other fermented beverages; mixed alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages; all types of water; juice and nectars (sold in glass, plastic, and metal packaging); and fruit wines and wine-product cocktails sold in plastic and metal packaging. Milk, wine, and spirits are exempt. The deposit is the same for all containers and is €0.10 per bottle/can, and most collection is done using reverse vending machines.

Lithuania's deposit return system is operated by Užstato Sistemos Administratorius (USAD). Container return rates for plastic bottles were 34% before the deposit scheme, 74.3% at end of 2016, 91.9% at end of 2017, and 93% in 2018

It's stuff I have read before, and when it becomes relevant to the discussion, I sometimes remember it. But I don't know the answer to your questions.

Average gross wage is 25k. Would you expect them to be more inclined to get all those 10c taxes back?

Was doing some shopping in Dunnes in Kilnamanagh earlier and walking back to the car there were 2 empty 500ml bottles just left on the ground in the car park, not 30 meters from a working machine and even closer to bins. Both had the logo on them.

The argument that this scheme will encourage people not to litter holds no water imo, if someone was going to throw rubbish on the ground they'll continue to do it. These are the people that don't even notice that there is a deposit now.

Then dont keep asking me questions. Look up the answers yourself, and use them against me.