Deposit return scheme (recycling)

Hande hoche!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122123395#Comment_122123395

Also inevitably it is a nice little earner for some.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122123405#Comment_122123405

…yup, we re fcuked in regards environmental issues, and our main environmental parties are fcuked to, jesus the greens are terrible, and im a greeny myself…

Hande hoche!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122123417#Comment_122123417

Tis hard not to be pessimistic at times.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122123360#Comment_122123360

Your last line sums it up. It is really an exercise in looking like you are doing something. And more importantly - be SEEN that you are looking like you are doing something.

Before this scheme. People just got on with their recycling at home. But now your recycling is very public. There seems to be an element of "Look at me recycling amn't I great?" about the whole thing. It almost feels like a primary school mentality when you are learning about the environment etc.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122123657#Comment_122123657

…its actually very disturbing to see how ill-equipped our political systems are in dealing with what actually needs to happen, i.e. reducing consumption, they cant actually do it….

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122122139#Comment_122122139

is that how low some ‘people go’? They put on acts?

How low can people go?

vafankillar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122121997#Comment_122121997

i believe 70 cent is the minimum you have to charge to avoid the levy, so shops moved to 70 cent. most shops have been like that for about a decade. most are more expensive now.

but have noticed aldi and other have made their bags worse & are charge even more in the guise of environmentalism. aldi even charging for barely usable brown bags.

johns1234ff4

I tried putting in a can with the logo on it in Tesco but it said it would not accept it. I then brought it to the checkout to see what was wrong. The woman scanned the barcode and said it doesn’t recognise this can. What is this about? She wasn’t to happy having to scan it. She did reluctantly in the end.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122124648#Comment_122124648

Can you key the barcode in on this site?

Sometimes you need to try placing the can in the machine at different positions eg barcode up, barcode down for it to be read ok.

https://re-turn.shanehastings.ie/

johns1234ff4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122124658#Comment_122124658

She scanned it at the till and said it was it wouldn’t recognise it.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122123667#Comment_122123667

Exactly something practical like that would make way more sense. This scheme just seems completely unnecessary to me. I doubt whether it manages to get many people who don't recycle to recycle. Because it takes even more time than the old way.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122124839#Comment_122124839

yea its a mess, dreadfully thought through, most people are actually concerned about the environment, but placing more obstacles in their way, and charging them even more for it, is how not to do this….

dxhound2005

The next thing up from the Circular Economy Act will probably be the 20 cent levy on single use containers like coffee cups. 200 million of them go for incineration or into landfill every year.

• Customers who purchase their hot drink in a single-use disposable cup will be charged the levy at the point of sale. Customers who choose to purchase their hot drink in a reusable cup will not be charged the levy. Many have already made this switch and many cafes and shops have been incentivising the use of reusable cups by providing a discount when you bring your own cup
• The proposed levy will be charged at a flat rate of 20 cent, applicable to all single-use disposable cups containing a hot drink, including those described as compostable, biodegradable or recyclable. Compostable, biodegradable or recyclable cups are single-use, and the overall aim is to move away from single use towards reuse. These cups do not minimise the use of resources and if not disposed of correctly, add to waste for disposal
• The levy will be shown as a separate charge on the invoice/receipt
• The proceeds from the levy will be ringfenced in a Circular Economy Fund for projects relating to environmental and climate action objectives and will be administered by the Department. The specific types of projects which can be funded through this Fund are set out in Section 8 of the Circular Economy Act

tjhook

You know what might make sense? Turn off the whole barcode scanning thing. Do it like other countries, just accept cans or bottles of the correct size. Isn't that supposed to be the aim of the system, to increase recycling of cans and plastic bottles, for the good of the environment? Regardless of where they came from?

I guess the main risk is that somebody might make a few cents profit by putting in cans they bought in the North. But at this stage Re-turn has appropriated more than enough to cover this.

patnor1011

This scheme is a fiasco. It is fantastic for the people running it and that is why they do not want to release figures. I work nights in city center and the amount of bottles and cans which go to the bins or tossed away is insane. Most of them get crushed or squashed and good luck for anyone trying to straighten them out - bloody machines do not properly work with pristine bottles anyway. I see it every day. I thought I will see homeless or addicts picking them up as additional revenue stream but they would rather sit on sidewalk with a cup.

REDBULL68

No ,cans were blank of barcodes, even the old stock had Barcodes,the lads in Tesco were a bit baffled.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122125116#Comment_122125116

Exactly.

Have the machine accept the plastic or can regardless of the prerequisite of scanning information off a barcode. This thing shouldn't be a monetary thing or a commercial thing. It should simply be a thing where you can drop off your item.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128068#Comment_122128068

I'm not sure that such an approach would increase return of cans/bottles at all.

If people won't return to get their deposit back why would they bother if there was no incentive ?

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128643#Comment_122128643

Maybe you would understand it if you read all the post?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128717#Comment_122128717

I did.

Maybe you'd like to express an opinion or perhaps better if I wait for the op to come back.

Leroy42

The barcodes, as explained to me earlier in this thread, are to ensure that only those items on which a deposit has been charged are accepted and thus paid.

This was to avoid having to pay out on pre deposit stock and also items for other markets, mainly NI.

Very short sighted and an approach based purely on the financial aspect of the system.

Completely losing sight of what the scheme is for and looking to ensure the scheme makes money rather than deliver the environmental advantage that the return rates are aimed at.

Yes, they would be plenty of old stock and some import from NI ( although data analysis would pick that up pretty quick) but those losses would be offset by the gains from genuine non returns

At the end of the day the producers and retailers have set up the scheme to limit any cost to themselves and shift that cost onto the consumer.

dxhound2005

The main aim is to separate these particular plastics and metals into a stream which is suitable for repeated processing into products which replace virgin products. When they go into the Green Bin, they get mixed up with milk containers and other possible contaminants.

As opponents of the scheme point out they are happy with their Green Bins and would continue to use them for all recyclables. Only some of them will abandon their principles and opt to get their deposits back, but that is a start. Setting up these machines in loads of shops and leaving them open to dumping of all sorts of materials is not a good plan.

tjhook

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129185#Comment_122129185

No, it's not a question of "leaving them open to dumping of all sorts of materials". I believe there are other countries that accept (and filter for) cans and bottles, returning their equivalent of the 15c deposit, without needing to read a barcode.

I guess it depends what the focus of the scheme is. Is the main focus a financial one, to gather deposits from consumers and then make some attempt to allow it to be reclaimed? Or a box-ticking exercise? Or is the focus to gather cans and bottles regardless of their origin, for the sake of the environment? As it is now, if I have a can that doesn't have a barcode, or with a dent that might render the barcode unreadable, Re-turn isn't interested in collecting it. They'd prefer to have it wind up in a ditch, rather than risk issuing me 15c that I'm not entitled to. That shows what their primary interest is.

Leroy42

The aim of the scheme is to increase the level of returns to meet the mandate from the EU. You say that only some will abandon the green bin for recycling these products, and thus completely failing in the stated aim of the scheme and then say that dumping will cause loads of problems.

The happy outcome for those people who don't return is that the producers and retailers get to keep the money. It will be claimed that the money is used to maintain the scheme but we are not getting any actual data on it so it is very hard to judge it.

As I have mentioned, this is supposed to be a long-term solution. It requires a culture and behavioural change across many sectors (consumers, retailers, producers). Yet they seem to have approached this as a short-term avoid costs at all costs and push any risks onto the consumer.

Far better to have moved everyone as quickly as possible to return as much as possible. Yes, that would have resulted in raying out on non-deposit scheme products. Yes, that would have resulted in contamination by non-scheme products. But changing habits takes time and some 'losses' need to be taken.

Instead, we have a crazy situation whereby almost everyone is unhappy. The retailers are complaining about the work required, consumers are unhappy that the machines don't work, the work involved, the lack of alternatives for older people, the lack of returns for those who home shop etc etc.

And the government is sitting idly by whilst a third-party commercial actor has apparently been given the licence to handle all can and bottle recycling across the entire country with zero accountability.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129260#Comment_122129260

Don't worry about the dents. Earlier in the thread I posted about the experiment I did to gather cans and bottles off the street. Many of them were severely out of shape. But only one was rejected by the machine. I found that once the barcode appears to be legible, the machines are tolerant to a high degree of physical damage to the actual container.

If you wanted to test that you could risk a few of your own and put them out of shape to see what happens. I cannot vouch for any machine other than the one in my local Tesco.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129014#Comment_122129014

You must have missed the bit that said

I guess the main risk is that somebody might make a few cents profit by putting in cans they bought in the North. But at this stage Re-turn has appropriated more than enough to cover this.

I don't see any suggesting of removing the incentive of the deposit refund.

johns1234ff4

The real issue is not the cans/bottles that people bring home to drink. The vast majority of these people put in the recycling bin anyway. It’s easy to do. The few that don’t won’t bother recycling anyway. It’s the cans/bottles that you drink when you are out and about that are the real issue. If you are out and about and get a can of coke are you really going to carry it around with you when it’s empty to find a machine in your local Super Valu/Aldi or bring it home with you? If you go into any shopping centre or look in any bins they are full of cans/bottles.
I don’t see how this scheme will increase recycling of cans/bottles. The vast majority of people who recycle at home would have done so anyway. When people buy cans/bottles out and about they are thrown in the general waste bin like before. There may be actually less recycling of bottles/cans as the ones that aren’t accepted/dented/machine not working now get thrown in the general waste bin

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129616#Comment_122129616

If you mean by "vast majority" something over 95%, that is not true. From international experience this scheme should increase recycling here.

And importantly the materials are segragated from contaminants, rendering them suitable for repeated reprocessing. If a can or bottle is turned into 7 future cans or bottles, that is 6 from virgin sources which won't be required.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129495#Comment_122129495

Presumably the "international barcodes" will be accepted and give the 15c deposit? Remember re-turn will make money on the recycling of the material so won't be much out of pocket

tjhook

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129291#Comment_122129291

I'm not denying your experience, but many others are having a very different experience. You may be lucky, or near a particularly good retailer/RVM.

See the survey in the Irish Independent, where 79% of respondents said the machines had accepted "most" of their returns. I.e. for 21% of people, the per-can/bottle failure rate was over 50%. The other 79% had a >50% success rate, but there's no detail on the average for that 79% of respondents. I'd be reasonable confident it's somewhat below 100%.