Why I'll say no to a united ireland

so can you say this, without equivocating?

“ I absolutely think that the UVF, LVF, IRA, and INLA were to all intent and purpose equally sectarian, equally vicious, and equally cowardly.”

If you can’t, then you need your bubble burst, that’s all

Wow!

Give me 1 quote. Just 1 **** quote from me where you feel you need to burst my bubble.

You seriously need to get out of the 20th Century and the 2 tribes way of thinking. It's not healthy. Try reading the posts from other people and engaging in proper debate.

I say: that I had a chuckle at the Union Jack on top of a 100 foot high pole in Clough.

You reply "This flagpole is on private property and the owner has every right to put it up. I am not sure why it hurts your eyes to see a union flag in a village that is overwhelmingly unionist. I think you’ll find it’s not the tallest flagpole in Ireland, I think that one is in your country and has a tricolour on top of it. Maybe you should campaign to get it taken down in case it offends me the next time I am on holidays."

Read that back. Is that a reasonable reply to what I posted?

You are continually labelling people and doubling down on it.

I will absolutely stand over, and evidence if necessary, that there are only four significant businesses in ‘loyalist’ Clough and that three of them are owned and run by nationalists, and fully supported by the local unionist community.

"Evidence"?

Read that back. Is that normal? You want to post evidence on a public forum about the political leanings of businesses in Clough!!!

And then there's the "I'll post pictures of tricolours in Downpatrick" "I'll video my drive through Clough so you can count the flags" etc.

It's not healthy.

When you were caught out displaying a picture of Ballymote Sports Centre claiming it to be Patrician Youth Centre in some bizarre crusade to defend your phrase "nationalist youth clubs" you actually emailed the public council-run sports club to get them to verify that Patrician rented their premises and then posted the reply here!!!

Up to now I have tried to engage with you and understand you point of view. We are fellow Down men and I have asked questions of you to try and understand your point of view. The latest being about the flags and banners situation in Clough. None of these points get addressed. None of these questions get answered. The feeling I get is that you just want to antagonise others here and not engage in serious debate.

Yesterday afternoon you replied "I will deal with these points later when I have time" and I had decided not to engage with you on here again until you did.

The only reason I have engaged here is the dismissive "people like francie and choochtown" in your message.

What exactly do you mean by that?

Bit rich of you to say "Seems downcow needs to address his own prejudice and slant on history."

Downcow has presented the facts which are true or as near to being true as makes no difference.

Downcow lives much closer to Castlewellan than you and is familiar with the unionist community in that town centre and surrounding area : if he or she says something about what happened to the unionists in Castlewellan I would think Downcow is in a much better position than you to know. I also think Downcow is much less bigoted than you, given you think the UDR ( the whole of the UDR, not just some bad apples ) was a sectarian force, and given you have at least the typical SF attitude to the pIRA.

At least Downcow condemns the paramilitaries on both sides: you only condemn the loyalists and the British of course.

In a UI, you would bully the oppressed minority in to thinking they were the ones who had "prejudice and slant on history", not you of course. One more reason why I, as someone from south of the border, would never vote for a U.I.

Downcow has presented the facts 

He hasn't.

Back to brass tacks, as that's what most ordinary folk are interested in.

Nice healthy difference building up between petrol/ diesel prices both sides of the border.

Must be great and a real bonus for anyone in Louth, Monaghan, Cavan, Leitrim, Donegal etc who can hop across and save quite the few bob. Could also pick up a few cans there I believe without the new can tax deposit here and put them though machines in the Republic to get even more € off.

This is the border working for ordinary folk.

What's not working of course, are these migrant lads taking the boat over to Larne or Belfast and then penetrating south to the Republic. Good to see our Gardaí manning the border and repulsing them me thinks!! At least that's what we're being told..

And over the years it works the other way too.
Furze, can you get your head around that? Can you get your head around the fact that people who live along the border are those who are most likely to be in favour of a UI and why that might be?

And if this migrant thing gets out of hand, what option do you think people will be in favour of more…being in control of the island as one jurisdiction with a sea border or trying to secure a border (we know cannot be secured) at huge cost?

Sure you and the Bryson types can get a whizz out of SF's discomfort (their issue with a border here never had anything to do with migrants BTW) but are you really thinking past that?

Sure it works the other way too.. residents of Armagh, Down, Fermanagh & Derry can hop across to the Republic to get better deals when it suits. People along the border have been exploiting it since 1923. Suits many of them grand :) Brass tacks, money in the pocket.

And?

Where would you say those who most favour a UI live?

Along the border and in NI.

Cork, Kerry and Dublin I'd think more likely in favour to be honest! Bar room nationalists, four green fields types - all up for it but never consider the implications and won't until they are obliged to face it. Do you seriously say that the border does not suit many ordinary folk in a practical way, those who live 20-30 miles either way? Would you take advantage of it yourself like?

I notice you didn't really answer my query though! Do you seriously say that the border does not suit many ordinary folk in a practical way, those who live 20-30 miles either way? Would you take advantage of it yourself like?

I know plenty of people from "both backgrounds / communities" (for want of a better word or phrase) through work, relations, sport etc in N.I. and I am very well aware of both sides of the story, being born, bred and living south of the border. As I said, as regards Downcow, you can nitpick one or two trivial details if you want but the picture he paints of his community's experience in Co. Down ( where he lives) is consistent with what many others in his community have found / experienced….and Downcow is quite a moderate. There are far more extreme people than Downcow. At least Downcow condemns the para-militaries on both sides : you only condemn the para-militaries on one side of course.

Well there you go. Take the average person/ family just getting through life and not really too bothered by borders and politics. In border regions, they have a nice thing going and can exploit the differences as they go along. If of nationalist persuasion, they might support SF as a matter of habit but that doesn't necessarily mean they'd like to see their little advantages in life eroded. Most people vote with their pockets in mind.

That's why the further you are from the border in the Republic, people can be more blasé about these things.

I did not call it a Nationalist Youth club. Nobody said the club built the memorial to the hunger strikers. You are nit-picking over the tiniest of details : what to call the club, which was set up by the catholic church, has catholic clergy as patrons and is in a town 90% catholic. Downcows point was that people from such clubs and areas do go to the ice rink in Dundolald (the only Olympic size one on the island), and it is much more cross-community than the Casement Park GAA stadium.

As I said, the picture Downcow paints of his community's experience in Co. Down ( where he lives) is consistent with what many others in his community have found / experienced….and Downcow is quite a moderate. After all, Downcow condemns the paramilitaries on both sides: you only condemn the loyalists and the British of course.

At least on the subject of segregation nationalism has a vision to end it. Is there anything similar in Unionism I wonder.

lol. Talk is cheap. In your SF policy document you say "all citizens must be cherished, respected and protected"….and you talk "about the right to free political thought". All parties would aspire to that. Yet you attack Downcow, and tell him / her they have "prejudice and slant on history"

There are far more extreme people than Downcow. At least Downcow condemns the para-militaries on both sides : you only condemn the para-militaries on one side of course.

In a UI, you would bully the oppressed minority in to thinking they were the ones who had "prejudice and slant on history", not you of course. As said before, one more reason why I, as someone from south of the border, would never vote for a U.I.

You should really stop posting on behalf of S.F., as your posts are counter-productive. No wonder SF support is slipping as the party flip flops around on issues such as immigration etc.