Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Other than Moscow Marge ranting and raving disprovable nonsense and russian propaganda and trying to zero out the bill, the floor debate has been overwhelmingly in favor of the bill.

Vote begins now. It already has a number of Republican votes and seems poised to sail. Some votes against by the Democrats are signaling against the genocide in Israel.

seems to be.

Well done those democrats voting against. Israeli genocide must stop.

Are the American tax payers obligated to continue funding the Ukrainian war effort indefinitely though?

Your phrase "pulling the finger out" seems to suggest an element of entitlement to these funds, rather than them being a charitable contribution to help Ukraine fight their war.

How strong would you say the Russian military are, to have caused this bleak outlook for the Ukrainians without having the benefit of such massive aid packages themselves?

Many people are saying the Russian defences are near impenetrable in most parts of the frontline now, with row after row of trenches, anti-tank obstacles, ditches, reinforced bunkers etc often many kilometres deep. Apparently, this is seriously sapping the morale of the soldiers, which I can fully imagine it might. It sounds like an old-fashioned ww1 gruelling style of war. Can this latest aid package make much of a difference in such a war of attrition?

lol of course it can. In a war of attrition the side with the largest economy will win with time. And Russia is dwarfed by the NATO economy, especially the US military industrial complex. And Russia has indeed had to transition to a full wartime economy while the US is business as usual.

latest tally. I guess I was wrong to think the Dems would overwhelmingly support the bill. Strange given how a great many of them still express support for Israel. It's going to be tight.

There's a lot of anger in the US over Israeli genocide. Democrats will stay home and not vote in November if Biden doesn't act. This is a reflection of what democratic reps are hearing. Giving them money to slaughter more children isn't a good look.

In retrospect, it was more Western sources who were predicting the lines to move, big style, when the Ukrainians began their summer offensive last year. General Zaluzhny had said in various news outlets that people would have to temper their expectations as to what Ukraine could actually do and, as it turned out, that wasn't a psy-op or anything.

… oh

The first vote that took place was to suspend the rules and pass H.R. 3602, a border security bill. The motion needs two-thirds approval, 290 votes, to pass. It failed with 215 in favor, 199 against while 17 members did not vote. But Republicans wanted votes on the record where lawmakers stood on the issue.

Earlier this week, three hardliners on the House Rules Committee prevented its passage in protest of House Speaker Mike Johnson’s overall plan. Had that passed, the bill would have required just a simple majority vote in the House to be sent to the Senate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/20/house-vote-ukraine-israel-aid-johnson/
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/3602

I'm guessing this user is likely dodgy but I'll respond to the points anyway

No obligation to support Ukraine, but there's still decent support in the US for it. The US taxpayer spent 20 years supporting Afghanistan which was massively more expensive.

The amount the US is giving, and the nature of it (it's providing US jobs, plus moving old stock, plus warehoused and to-be-decommissioned equipment, plus tackling one of the US and free world's largest enemies, Putin, plus defending Europe from invasion) from any perspective it's a no-brainer pretty much. It's only being held up by party politics.

The Russian military is around the 3rd largest military in the world. They get some support from N Korea and China and others.

Russian defenses are formidable, but without this aid Ukraine could find itself falling back, aka losing. If this aid package passes it will be a significant boost to equipment/munitions, but also a big boost to morale in Ukraine who are still fighting for their survival.

"The House has overwhelmingly passed H.R. 8038, a bill that requires the current Chinese owner of TikTok to sell or face a potential ban. It would also allow the president to level new sanctions against Russia and Iran." (Wapo)

sounds like it according to the title read.

The amendments first, including the stupid moscow marge one.

Maybe they're not too worried about the Russian threat, considering they've been hearing about how the Russian military isn't very impressive for two solid years now?

It seems to be getting harder and harder to sell this rhetoric to people.

Two solid years into a war Russian propaganda told us will take three days for the second best army in world

let the record be clear 🤣

Edit: who is the one democrat voting nay only to change their mind?

Ahem, like I was saying, sail through the House. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/8035

Hopefully this means the bill gets signed and we get wheels up on the military aid to Ukraine by the end of the day.

they don't seem to be getting around to the russian side of the chamber