Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077569#Comment_122077569

The question of whether there is a duty of the individual to fight for the State has been debated by philosophers and ethicists for some time. Suffice it to say that there is no set answer to the question, so let's say we'll go with 'individual right to choose' for the sake of it. Not that most people are thrilled about getting shot at in the first place, mind, I haven't met many who are, but 'not wanting to fight' is a slightly different question to 'duty to fight'.

There is far more to the question, though, than picking up a rifle and going to the front. Even the US makes such accommodations: I had a medic refused to carry a rifle (Part of his job is the protection of wounded). We found him a spot in a base hospital, and I got a different medic. And of course there are cases like Desmond Doss. There are a slew of things which Ukraine needs to get done in order to survive the war other than just fight or even go near the front lines, from stringing power lines knocked down by Russian strikes to water delivery to civilians in areas with outages. Whether the Ukrainian government is taking such factors into consideration, I'm not sure, but even working in a western Ukrainian farm would be helpful. And the country's not yet at a point that regular work has ceased: My civilian employer still has a large development studio for video games operating in Kyiv: The economy still needs to function in addition to the war being fought. Indeed, the economy needs to function for the war to be fought: The Ukrainians say that they have more theoretical domestic capacity to build weapons than they are using simply because they haven't the government revenue from taxes to spend on it. Refugees living in other countries are not contributing to that economic base.

There is also the note that whilst there can certainly be debate in third countries about ejecting those who are avoiding the fighting and sending them back to Ukraine, and I think most people would say that is not a course of action to go with, it's also worth noting that there was no requirement to accept them in the first place, and that was a choice which could have been made differently. I'm not sure if any nations set up any basic screening. "Are you a family with children?" "Is your home within 100km of the front line or in occupied territory? If you're a military aged male, are you the only child of the family?" That sort of thing. If a nation is hosting refugees from, say, Lviv right now, the question should be "why?" Or did all the nations just fill up their refugee quotas on a first come-first served basis?

Unlike the case of, say, Canada providing refuge for Americans avoiding the Vietnam War draft, there are very direct consequences to the outcome of the fight in Ukraine for European nations hosting refugees, and ultimately a nation needs to act in its own self-interest. The West is spending billions of dollars and Euro keeping Ukraine in the fight: Obviously it is perceived as being in European, American and a large part of Pacific Oceanic interests to have Ukraine exist as an independent country, or at least prevent Russia from being a successfully expansionist country either for its own sake or as an example for other nations. Why are we doing this at the same time as we are enabling the denial from the Ukrainians of one of the most critical resources that they have in order to achieve this: Their own personnel? The sooner that the Russians are defeated, the sooner the global economy can get back to normal, the sooner all the refugees currently being hosted can go home, and the sooner we can get back to spending money on things we want domestically instead, right?

There is no long line of people in the West lining up for various different reasons, but there is also a reason why Macron openly observed that having Western troops in Ukraine should not be ruled out. If the Ukrainians are not capable of doing so, then we'll have to do it. Honestly, there's a bit of real-politik involved. We had no problems going to help Kuwait, but Iraq didn't have strategic nuclear missiles. So, the overall safest course of action for the world as a whole is that Ukraine manages it with only its own manpower. By denying Ukraine that manpower, we are increasing the risk to our own nations both in terms of the human capital we are going to expend if they fail, the dollars/euros we are going to expend doing it, and possible larger risk of greater destruction over more places than we otherwise might have had to do.

jmreire

Another opinion on Russian so called successes …..

https://twitter.com/ian_matveev/status/1784632412623798513

jmreire

Russians looking ahead to the future….

https://twitter.com/i/status/1784943849451725090

nigeldaniel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072042#Comment_122072042

I tend to be suspicious of any Russia related news/pr lately. So many naff story's coming from a verity of outlets that can turn out to be fabricated yahoo. I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be some lousy PR gig of some kind. Those Ruskkies mahhh

jmreire

And now, we come to the hard facts and figures….how many Ukrainians do we need to kill?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1656917992041508866

JimmyChew

I've asked myself a few times down through the years "Would I die for Ireland" or along those lines questioning my commitment to my country and in all honesty and particularly since I became a father I'm not sure I would. At least as i sit in my comfortable office, in my well paid job with food on my table and kids in school. perhaps I would feel differently if my neighbourhood was within missile strike range. I haven't been challenged in this way and I'm very grateful for that. I hope i or my children realistically never have to make these choices. My grandfather and his brothers are probably turning in their graves but we're from a different generation, we live in the "developed west" generations before afforded me this life and I intend to enjoy it and fully intend to pass things over to the next generation in better order with a better standard of living (without having to die for Ireland). It's at the fore front of my mind as i work for my family. Give them benefits & experiences I didn't have.

I or my children are not rotting away or getting blown to pieces in some mudhole because the leaders of nations believe the solution is war! Would I high tail it and seek refuge in some other country and start all over again, I would think its likely.

We should but didn't learn the lessons of the past, WWII anyone? The writing was on the wall with Putin and it was ignored. Terrorist organisations were & are allowed to build within vacuums created by government greed and mismanagement. International courts are idle while despot leaders are allowed gather momentum and build hate and when it all boils over men women and children are packed off to war to fight the battles which are none of their doing?

The war and peace cycle should have been interrupted in the last 70 years and we as a race should have evolved but we didn't. Were back to WWI tactics but now with lasers and drones instead of cannon balls and horses.

And I'm not down for dying in no mud hole because the leadership of the world cant evolve. That's my perspective as I sit in my comfortable office while my kids are happy & healthy. I cant speak for others who are within missile range. Would i still feel the same if we were the target? Can't say for sure but I hope to never find myself there…

housetypeb

The enemy is anyone who is going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078535#Comment_122078535

Up to you what you believe (or not) Dan, but I believe it happened and it is a regular occurrence. I remember funerals in Chechnya only too well from the time I was there.

zv2

Not like WW2 for sure-

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1784860717159477315

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078558#Comment_122078558

Wars are pretty inevitable, sadly. There are a couple of reasons for this which I can think of - one is that war is a product of when a particular country's power level or ambition isn't matched by the existing power structures in the world. The other is that people, or maybe I should say societies, seem to have a primal need to fight. As horrible and bleak and brutal as war is, and no matter how much individuals seem to recognise that fact, it seems to remain that groups of people still have that deep-set tribal 'us vs. them' thing going on and get swept up in a desire to test their mettle in pursuit in some kind of ideal.

It isn't so much that we don't learn the lessons of the past, but that they recede from memory as more base human tendencies come to the fore.

People talk about wars being concocted by power hungry old men for personal gain, but I think that's a little bit simplistic, although I believe there's also a strand of truth in that in the sense that they're guilty of beating the drum, but people in general are guilty of picking up the weapons to wage the wars, and if they didn't do that, the old men at the top could do nothing about it, so I think it's a case of one hand washing the other.

Lastly, it seems that peace is a reliable precursor of war because some grievances build up which are never addressed due to fears of open conflict being renewed. Some nations grow complacent and others sense an opportunity and use the fear of war to agitate with little blowback until their actions can no longer be tolerated.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078998#Comment_122078998

The trouble in this case with Putin is here you had an individual gratifying past wars constantly and politely people would call him a history buff. Modern western politicians in dealing with him would say he was living 100 years ago in the past and had no modern values that don't involve calling for 100's of thousands to die at his whim.

jmreire

For all folks who are caught up in Russia's endless reserves of manpower and weaponry, here is a copy paste of an article on current housing problems in Russia:-

Quote:- Russia doesn't have 4 trillion rubles to repair dilapidated housing in the country but has no problem spending billions of dollars on destroying homes in Ukraine.
News from Mordor:
“The volume of dilapidated housing in apartment buildings is increasing every year. By 2030, Russia will have 40 million square meters of uninhabitable housing. This statement was made by Deputy Prime Minister Marat Khusnullin.
According to Khusnullin to repair this housing will cost 4 trillion rubles, and now there is no money for it.
"We don't have 4 trillion, so, colleagues, we need to take a very serious look at the ways to approach this," he said.
According to Khusnullin, in order to solve the problem, it is necessary to find a balance between the repair and the sources of its financing. The politician added that more investors should be attracted to this investing in this area. Unquote .

This is just one of the problems facing Russia, housing. Now include all the other problems that years of under investment are showing up ..bridges and dams collapsing, city heating infrastructure not working, hospitals and schools falling apart because even if the cash was there, the skilled manpower is not…
No matter what Putin's propaganda make about victories in Ukraine, he is not victorious on the home front, quite the opposite in fact.

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079180#Comment_122079180

Genghis Cant.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079492#Comment_122079492

Genghis can’t took over a good chunk of the known world (and successfully invaded and destroyed Russia) using horses

Putin is three years into his three days war bogged down in mud twenty miles outside their border after losing a good chunk of the enormous Soviet era equipment pile

So yeh good name 😄

Meanwhile word of the day is “income mobilisation” aka we took your son and now we take your money too now via more and higher taxes and runaway inflation

https://www.semafor.com/article/04/29/2024/putin-eyes-first-tax-hike-in-a-decade-to-fund-war?utm_campaign=semaforreddit

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078998#Comment_122078998

War is inevitable because of men and their stupid need to assert dominance. Some are old, some are young, but almost always men are the problem. Get rid of men and put women in charge and yes (before someone mentions Thatcher or that awful Russian propagandist off the TV) there'll still be some war and violence but a hell of a lot less. So it's not inevitable, but we need total overhaul of power structures to change the situation.

Sadly it's unlikely to happen

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079491#Comment_122079491

If Ukraine destroys the oil refineries the non existent tradesmen will not be able to even reach the house that is falling apart.

zerosquared

Another one caught

https://www.dw.com/en/german-army-captain-admits-spying-for-russia/a-68946494

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080125#Comment_122080125

Arguably, Ukraine should be aiming for Russia's weapons and munitions factories. Taking a couple of those out would put a serious dent in Putin's war effort.

EltonJohn69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080220#Comment_122080220

they are everywhere

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080125#Comment_122080125

Believe me when I say that "falling apart" in Russia, unlike Ireland, it literally means "falling apart" as in the brickwork turning into dust..All this frenetic bombing and attacking that Putin is now engaged in is to me anyway, signs of sheer desperation. He absolutely needs some kind of "win" in time for the 9th May Great Victory Celebrations, and of course for Ukraine to bring down the Kerch bridge anytime would be a propaganda boon of unimaginable value to them, but to bring it down on the 9th,,,would be shattering for Putin.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080248#Comment_122080248

I seen this thread 🧵 today

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1784992418871345378

When your strip away all the emotions and look at the facts at the rate Russia has been advancing since October it will take them another 29.5 years to takeover rest of Donbass (never mind Ukraine)

And there in lies the key to Ukrainian victory, become a septic thorn in the side of Russia and trade space for time and save their men and equipment, while Russia bleeds and Russians die and leave.

Putin doesn’t have 30 years, he probably doesn’t have 3 years as Russia and Putin despite what their propaganda wants us to believe does not have time on his side. If they thought they did they went about starting this war and last two years the wrong way.

Now in the tick tock age of instant gratification this might suck as a strategy for outside observers like everyone on this thread, but in the long term they can take back all their lost land and not lose a chunk of their population for it, Azerbaijan did it recently.

In the end no post World War Two colonial war of dying empires ended up being successful and often led to the collapse of said empires, including much larger and more powerful USSR which fell apart because of Afghanistan despite them killing millions.

jmreire

It's becoming increasingly harder for Putin to cover the bare patches that are appearing in the bottom of the money barrel. Putin's dream of a new USSR is fast turning into a nightmare.

jmreire

Undoubtedly, but the sheer propaganda value of taking down the Kerch bridge cannot be underestimated. If it was possible to inflict personal suffering on Putin, this would be the best way to do it!!! Not to mention his standing world wide. All his erstwhile "friends" would commiserate with him, but secretly be laughing behind his back, schadenfreude at its finest,

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080125#Comment_122080125

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080358#Comment_122080358

At this rate they will need to put every building and piece of infrastructure and the people inside behind bars and cages 😂

which come to think of it is also an acceptable outcome

https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1784553858523439194

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080383#Comment_122080383

It's reported that freight trains towing fuel oil carriages won't cross the bridge now such is the fear of providing a target for additional explosive reactions when crossing the bridge. It's said they are being disconnected on the Russian side.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080559#Comment_122080559

Reported where?

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081004#Comment_122081004

On one of the forums. Twatter. Said local eyes.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075572#Comment_122075572

Hold my vodka

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13366869/Disturbing-video-shows-bears-forced-BOX-hind-legs-laughing-audience-cruel-Russian-circus.html

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080559#Comment_122080559

I don't think that the bridge ever returned to full capacity. travel was allowed one direction only at a time, with strict load limits. So, I could well believe it about oil tankers not being allowed on the bridge.

Say my name

Same energy as above.

Ramzan Kadyov's 16 year old son Adam was filmed/staged let loose on a captive Nikita Zhuravel. He received medals and titles for the footage.

http://twitter.com/sotanews/status/1784848751409922141

He's now famous.

http://twitter.com/PoliticsWWWeb/status/1785252801506910592

http://twitter.com/GAMZIRI24/status/1784821906715070510