The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Yes, I'd second that - heaps of underage GAA teams in SoCoDu collapse at u14/u15 level when the boys get into school rugby teams in the fee paying segment. They are not allowed to both.

I would say also - as a spectator sport, the League of Ireland has really taken off. Bohs, Pats and Shels are always sold out. The atmosphere at the games is rocking. Meanwhile, the Dubs are in a handful games each year, and most of these are in a half empty Croke Park. Actually, the club games between Kilmacud and Na Fianna or whatever would be much closer to what League of Ireland offers. Of course you could say the same for maybe Sligo or Dundalk.

Indeed super Bertie 😂

Ah god no , we are happy the way we are thanks 😂🤣

My post was in general terms. But as a person who grew up in a rural village the GAA was your only local option for sport. You'd need to head to the next big town 20/30 minutes odd down the road for an alternative sport/activity. Dublin is very very different within 30 minutes you have vastly more options without even touching a car. The GAAs rural infrastructure is unmatched by any organisation in the country bar potentially the Catholic church. It's a huge tribute to the GAA.

The thing about Dublins population is that it gives a critical mass to smaller organisations both sporting and non sporting. To run different clubs especially at underage for certain niches you need a very big population which Dublin has. Remember for an sport/activity to be viable you need a certain amount of people. More population more viable activities more competition.

The amount of people who are actively involved in the GAA in Dublin is less compared per capita compared to the rest of the country(can't remember the exact data source for that point). The GAA invested hugely in Dublin as a result but even with that investment less people are involved per capita compared to the rest of the country. It's not exactly new as well, the GAA have always been weaker in more urban areas. A lot of that relative weakness is just the greater competition in urban areas.

That's all before talking about playing pitches and land/building costs in general. Which is a massive issue for all sports. It's an issue not faced to the same extent in any other parts of the country.

Dublins huge population obviously gives the county a big help but that population also comes with downsides which are often ignored/not appreciated.

I'm not suggesting that Dublin is the only place where people have other options. That's a complete and utter strawman. What I'm saying is that in Dublin you have more options compared to places with lower population levels.

The wider point I'm making is that Dublins big population does not guarantee success. That huge population comes with problems.

The fact that the League of Ireland is still heavily focused on Dublin is a perfect example. Many counties have no LOI clubs never mind the numbers in Dublin city alone. The rugby academies/private schools are another example. I'm just picking the GAAs two most high profile competitors. I know of other sports where the biggest clubs all reside in Dublin and tend to dominate in national competitions at a club level even if not on an individual level.

There is this simplistic notion that Dublins large population guarantees success. That's what I'm challenging. It doesn't. It's an obvious help but again that large population and population density brings challenges to the GAA that no other county faces to remotely the same extent. Other counties don't have the same population density as Dublin and the challenges that comes with that.

The other big problem Dublin has is land. In Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Co Co there is so little land available(partly due to the Wicklow mountains) they have effectively planned out the amount of land available for sports clubs for the 100 odd years based on a person I know who works there. If you've been paying attention to the news you'll see certain sports clubs in Dublin 8 will have to wait until 2027 for sports pitches. Again something unimaginable to most places in Ireland. The challenge in Dublin and not just for the GAA is the ability to obtain access to enough facilities to cater for the demand organisations face.

A lot of money is spent on Dublin GAA but Dublin is an expensive place relative to the rest of the country to do business. The GAA is no exception.

To bring back to my main point a lot of people look at Dublins population and money and look at it very simplistically. Yes Dublins population and overall revenue is very helpful but they are not the be all and end all. Beneath the surface of these attention grabbing headlines though things are a lot more nuanced.

I'm not "insinuating" anything, I come out and state my views plainly- have a read of my previous posts to see what I actually said. Things should be clarified then. One thing we can say for sure though- the money Dublin alone were uniquely favoured to receive was definitely a factor in their recent success. Not the only factor, no (population advantaged probably being at least as important for instance), but an important one. A very important one.

But even by that metric Dublin were and are unfairly advantaged. On Games Development alone, never mind taking on board government money, sponsorship money etc. I want Games Development money to be spent on kids in Dublin, absolutely, I want the GAA to flourish in Dublin. But not flourish in Dublin alone, at the expense of or instead of all other counties. Yes, there is competition from sports in Dublin, just as there is in all counties. And Dublin winning from an unfairly advantaged position is harming the game in all counties- just look at the once-great Leinster Championship to see the harm it is doing! If Dublin were competing fairly I wouldn't mind but sadly this is not the case. Population alone is grounds for a split by the way, as Dublin are such an outlier.

The "Golden Generation" point has been thoroughly debunked by this stage. People used to say 10+ years ago when Paul Flynn is gone, when the Brogans are gone etc, Dublin will fall off. This won't happen though- Dublin will always have a conveyor belt of oustanding talent. Population will given them the raw numbers, funding will help identify and develop them and playing at home will help them eke out close games. That's why Dublin should be split, as the playing field is not level.

Sure thing- here is a link from a quick google. It's a photo but of a newspaper report so should be reliable. The figures themselves don't seem to be contested by anyone:

We see here that Dublin get slightly under 33% of the total funding, even though they only account for ~25% of the population when Northern Ireland excluding Unionists are accounted for. Factor that in with the money from the government, and their sponsors, and that population advantage alone is grounds for a split and not additional funding! So we see again what a terribly unfair state of affairs the GAA has allowed to develop, all to the sole advantage of Dublin over everyone else.

One thing to bear in mind is that this thread has been going on for some time. Every so often someone comes in demanding the figures be re-issued so it's understandable why it's often preferable and fair to just direct them to do their own searches as the figures have been provided so many times in the past.

It's a fund that was set up for Underage Coaching & Development funding (originally exclusively for Dublin but then expanded to be a national scheme), so you'd expect some potential outliers in smaller counties where they might have been well behind the curve on Game Development Officers (which is what +90% of the funding goes towards paying). Especially in the case of this fund where it requires matching funding from the clubs, you'd expect the odd quirk in numbers at the lower populations if and when they get into a position to invest themselves.

Slightly more interesting & relevant would to be a look at the other end of the scale, the more competitive counties.

(Borrowed a few extra numbers on the Youth Clubs from one of Sean's articles around the original release of the data to give a little more context - https://www.sundayworld.com/sport/gaa/gaa-needs-to-sort-money-matters-for-clubs-in-all-counties/644831654.html - might be interesting to see it compared on something like Registered Club Players or (Underage) Playing Age Population, though I'm not aware of numbers that detailed being around easily to grab)

Taking the top 7 ranked teams from this years national league, you can see that both the per capita and per youth team figure for Dublin stands out. By a minimum of 30% more in each case and closer to 100% more looking as an average.

Now, great big huge caveats on all of that.

Game Development Funding is one (sizable) piece of the funding jigsaw but given that it does require the matching funding from the clubs involved it isn't one where smaller counties (and by that I do include everyone bar Dublin) will tend to shine. There are other GAA schemes that could be helping close the gaps there quite significantly. I'm not sure if I've ever seen any other funding numbers shared, beyond Sean releasing these last year, but I'm sure there's probably some around somewhere if anyone had the urge to really dive into it.

These historical numbers are slightly irrelevant to discuss too, given they've already changed the funding model to reduce the discrepancies between top and everyone else. Vague memories of seeing a report since suggesting it didn't close the gap nearly as much as they'd originally hoped… but not a topic they're going to be coming to Boards for further input on tweaks so not one I'm personally going to get into any real depth on beyond the curiosity glance above.

https://www.the42.ie/dublin-funding-cut-new-model-gaa-5680361-Feb2022/

The issue here is , a few posters on here want Dublin split to help there own Counties

No Dublin should not be split , Kerry should be split ,if that helps 31 Counties so what ?

Don't be ridiculous. Kerry does not the population of a province.

Don't be so ridiculous yourself , Kerry have had advantages for over a century , helping them dominate Munster with a ridiculous 84 Munster titles and 38 All Irelands !! enough is enough time to split them .

You can bend the figures this way and that way if you want to be selective about it - but taken as a whole, in a 32 county competition, Dublin ranks 22nd. There is no world in which anyone can say the numbers are massively skewed towards Dublin, as people on this thread have made out.

Also, to your point, I suspect whats happened here is that these figures are grant based.

And to get the grant you have to apply for the grant.

If clubs or county boards in other counties didnt apply for the grant, thats not Dublin's fault.

"The people in this argument arent interested in inequity, they are only interested in inequity relating to Dublin. "

That's what this thread is about, but instead of discussing the topic of this thread all we get in inane whataboutery. If there are other issues of concern then start another thread. Such issues may exist and they can be discussed, but that is no excuse for not dealing with the problem at hand.