The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052412#Comment_122052412

And what is the problem it hand?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052412#Comment_122052412

The problem at hand is a few posters want Dublin split to help there own County , some sneaky posters refuse to say what County they are from as this would show why they want the Dublin split , this sly sad agenda will not work 🙄

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048821#Comment_122048821

You are attempting to muddy the waters by putting words in his mouth. Words he never used.

You are deliberately trying to misrepresent his words by saying he never said X explicitly, and leaving it hanging there……implying that's what he meant to say or that's the message his words are conveying.

This is a scumbag tactic.

He never said it. He never meant to say it. You claimed he said it, then you were corrected by multiple people, including himself, and you are STILL refusing to admit that you were wrong.

You are too bull-headed to even concede this minor instance where you are clearly and demonstrably incorrect in your assertions. This doesn't bode well for all your other assertions, if you are unwilling to accept you are so wrong on such a trivial matter……..

I mean, you never said you hate Dublin. You never said you batter old folks, or attack puppies or put cigarettes out on kids' necks……….If someone came in here and accused you of these things and defended that standpoint by saying "well he neve explicitly said it……."

You know what you're doing and why you're doing it. But so does everyone else. We can see past the cute hoorism to spot the sad, pathetic Kerryman pining for the glory days.

TsuDhoNimh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052291#Comment_122052291

Even worse given its fund matching. In order to avail of this scheme, the youth clubs (or county boards funding them) have to be able to match the Game Development Fund monies to pay for the GDOs so beyond just the admin impacts of having to apply.

22nd in what context?

Per youth team (as Sean Goldrick outlined in his Sunday World article) they're clearly 1st.

Per capita? I'm far too lazy (& don't care) to gather all the populations from the '22 census, but if you happen to have the figures done it'd be interesting to see them. Glancing at the comparatively competitive counties (i.e. mainly ones ~10% of Dublin's population) they're 1st again, with on average 100% more historical GDF funding than the others.

As you say, all depends on what way you segment or rationalise it. There's certainly going to be a comparison where Dublin come in 22nd, I'm just not sure what it is looking at so you'd need to be more specific.

More importantly, these are all old numbers based on the old system that has already changed (slightly, rumours it needs a more drastic overhaul after just the first year) because those that gave out the funding happily agreed Dublin were getting a disproportionate benefit. Which makes perfect sense given the scheme was only ever designed specifically to help gain GAA a foothold in the capital, where it was lagging poorly in the early 00's. Something the fund did tremendously well, to be fair. Possibly a little too well, leading to stuff like this thread.

I should probably add… I'm not in favour of splitting Dublin personally. I can't say exactly why… it just feels off. Split it into 5 equal populations and it's still tied as the 5 largest counties in Leinster, probably 2nd or 3rd (Cork would be bigger than the 290k, not sure of any others off the top of my head) nationally. It just feels like a weird and awkward solution that dilutes part of the ethos of the game, pride in representing your county.

I think most GAA fans just hope to see a little more equality on stuff like funding (in general, not specifically the Game Development stuff), rather than a monumental shift on how our teams are delineated or governed. When Dublin do get the gains from the GDOs from this fund, do get the benefits of its population (e.g. Mayo's first 15 are choosing the top 0.14% of players from those youth teams while Dublin are choosing the top 0.0039% from theirs - based on an inaccurate assumption all youth teams would have equal numbers, which from knowledge of nieces and nephews playing across Dublin wouldn't be anywhere close to the case), do get the sponsorship financial benefits that come with that huge population, do get the cost savings that come from the majority of a training fund not going on long distance mileage, do get the benefits of playing all significant knock out games at home and do get the benefits of playing in a stadium they haven't had to go millions into debt to finance or maintain…. it all becomes a little (or a lot, at times) too much for others to realistically consistently compete with.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052586#Comment_122052586

The argument either stands or falls, ad hominem attacks on posters based on their county do not change that.

As for funding, if Dublin has 20% of the population of the country than of course they will get more funding and getting kids involved in GAA in Dublin is very desirable. But you cannot have a unit with that population and proportionate funding without distorting national competition and that needs to be stopped.

I think some posters here would rather than Dublin got less funding and had less participation, so long as that meant that the county was not split!

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050315#Comment_122050315

But this is just one part of the picture. As I've said before, it's not just the funding, or just the population advantage, or just playing at home. It's all those things together, on a scale that dwarfs any other county, has persisted for decades, existing for decades etc. Not only is it only one part of the picture, it is only one part of funding- it doesn't even factor in sponsorship money, government money etc, which I have frequently referred to.

Also even taking it per capita is unfair as it essentially just compounds Dublin's existing population advantage! Population alone is grounds for a split of Dublin, although only a two-way split, not additional funding. And then the funding will go further in Dublin's case given their economies of scale. So we do see again that Dublin alone are uniquely unfairly advantaged vs everyone else.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122051378#Comment_122051378

"its quite obvious when you refuse to say what County you are are from , that splitting Dublin would directly benefit your own County "

This is just a truism that adds nothing to the debate. Of course splitting Dublin will directly benefit his county- it benefits all counties. So he could just as easily be from Dublin as from Leitrim! But more importantly, the argument stands on its own merits.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052291#Comment_122052291

They rank 22nd in what? There is a world in which you can say that- the world in which we live in. This is just one part of funding as above, it compounds Dublin's populations' advantage, they have economies of scale, they were uniquely favoured and population alone is grounds for a split as it is so disproporationate! I'm not sure what is hard to understand about this.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052312#Comment_122052312

We're interested in inequities facing Gaelic Games. As the favourtism displayed and allowed by the GAA towards Dublin is the biggest issue in Gaelic Games, given the damage to the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition.

If a soccer team had a playing pool larger than the gap between the next largest team and the smallest, were overfunded for decades vs everyone else, played almost all consequential games at home, then yes that should be examined. But it seems Dublin's advantages are quite unique in sport- that is how insane the status quo is in Gaelic Football. We can ignore this reality or we can try to make things fairer and help all counties, by splitting Dublin.

And none of us are "bashing Dublin". I don't have anything against Dublin, the unfairness is not their fault. If it was any othe county that had this combination of unique advantages, I'd be calling for them to be split instead. But we have to address these issues, or the GAA will be in serious trouble (it already is).

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052600#Comment_122052600

Not at all, have a read over the posts again to get a more thorough understanding of what was said. He cited coaching as the advantage and said funding was irrelevant. I proved funding was not irrelevant. He talked at length about Dublin's volunteers/coaches. I showed how this was not unique to Dublin. When I am wrong, I will say, there is no shame in it (I wish you would do the same, you seem to just repeat questions when this is the case!), but thankfully there is no need here as I was proved correct. I did concede he didn't say anything explicit about volunteers, happy to do that.

The rest of your post is quite strange. Hopefully you are not projecting again because things are taking quite a dark turn!

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052600#Comment_122052600

Strange post. You're getting rightly riled there by a faceless forum poster. "Bull-headed", "scumbag", "pathetic".

What do you mean "pining for the glory days". Kerry won the All-Ireland the year before last. If you were referring to us poor folk in Mayo, you might have some point.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052976#Comment_122052976

Apologies - I wrote that wrong.

They rank 10th out of 32 counties. As in, the funding figures you provided, when viewed on a 'per capita' basis they are ranked 10th highest for funding on a per capita basis.

Funny enough, I completely agree with you around playing home games at Croke Park. However its not Dublins fault when for example Meath are offerred the chance to play at home in Pairc Tailteann and they say no, we'd rather Croke Park.

And it does also raise the question of - if its such an advantage, then why would Meath take this approach…… which might hint at the fact that Meath dont really think it matters.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053129#Comment_122053129

As a matter of interest - if Dublin were playing Mayo in an all-ireland semi final tomorrow - and you were asked where it should be played - where would you pick? And do you think the location would have much of an impact on the result?

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053129#Comment_122053129

I'm not riled at all, I'm calling it as I see it. That particular poster is deliberately and openly twisting people's words to deflect from the fact that their argument is a load of bollocks and they've been caught trying to put words into other posters' mouths, again.

3 wins in the last what, 20 years?, is as dry a patch for the Kingdom as we've seen since the 1960s. Hell, they've only made what, 6 finals out of the last 15 or so? Far from the glory days.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053007#Comment_122053007

I am well versed in what was said, I don't need to go back over anything.

I've been involved in this discussion for a while- interesting your argument of "We just have the best volunteers" isn't made as much in recent years, interesting to see it arise again.

This is what you claimed the other poster said. You claimed that was their argument and they said no, that's not what they were talking about. You said, "well, you didn't say it explicitly…..", meaning he did say it implicitly, which is also false. You were corrected AGAIN, and again and again, and you are still now, trying to twist his words instead of owning your mistake.

When I am wrong, I will say, there is no shame in it 

He never said "we have the best volunteers". You claimed he did, which is wrong. You then insinuated that he implied it, which is also wrong, and were corrected again.

Do you accept that you are and were wrong or are you gonna duck it again?

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053322#Comment_122053322

Surely every year that a team wins an All-Ireland is a "glory day".

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053208#Comment_122053208

Definitely Castlebar. I live in Dublin. Have had plenty of great occasions in Croke Park. I don't need to pick Croke Park over a rural venue to get to enjoy the spectacle of Croke Park. I would go with whatever would give Mayo any little advantage they could get e.g. opposition team having to travel, opposition team having to sleep in strange surroundings the night before a match, a 70:30 crowd in favor of our lads instead of a noisy Hill16, familiar surroundings at the pitch etc.

I do think those factor have an influence on performances/results.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053172#Comment_122053172

It has levelled out somewhat in recent years to be fair. But as I've said before, it is only one source of funding- all sources should be considered; again, Dublin are uniquely advantaged here. More important though is taking per capita advantage assumes that Dublin's population is not already an enormous advantage given what an outlier it is, which is grounds for a split by itself alone. Rather than argument for additional funding. It is the combination of unfair advantages, their scale and duration that is important, not just any one of those things alone.

Finals and semi-finals are played in Dublin's home stadium. Given how close some of the finals have been, it is fair to say that if they were playing away they'd lose more often. Home advantage is an advantage.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053322#Comment_122053322

You are definitely riled! Don't lie now, again. Your posts are lengthy with a lot of furious and insulting words. As I know I am in the right, I can brush it off as angry rants but you are definitely not liking the logical conclusion that stems from recognising Dublin's unfair advantages i.e. that they should be split. You don't want them to be split, you have an emotional attachment to the team (ignoring that splitting them will be better for the game in Dublin). So you get very riled when people propose the measure.

My argument is basically: Dublin alone are unfairly advantage over all other counties due to the unique combination, nature, scale and duration they have in funding, population and home pitch advantages. There are differences between other counties, yes, but not with the combination, nature, scale and duration as in Dublin's case. These unfair advantages sully Dublin's success and damage the prestige, integrity and fairness of GAA competitions. We should split Dublin to disperse these advantages and make things fairer for all counties. This will benefit all counties who participate in GAA competitions.

It's quite a simple argument and is clearly backed by the evidence we have before us.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052932#Comment_122052932

We can look at Dublin after we sort the ridiculous Kerry situation 😁

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053360#Comment_122053360

If you're well versed, then there is nothing more to discuss! My argument is clearly vindicated. The player did not say that explicitly, no, which I have already said. You can't say something implicitly btw, that is an oxymoron. He talked at length about coaches being the causes of Dublin's success, and dismissed funding as a contributory factor. I've shown how funding has benefited Dublin, and how volunteers are no better in Dublin than elsewhere. So I am willing to accept that I'm not wrong and that I've answered the question multiple times already. That's all I'm willing to accept here. I mean, are you seriously going to say that Dublin are not advantaged in terms of funding? After all this time? That's clearly ridiculous!

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053801#Comment_122053801

If you're well versed, then there is nothing more to discuss!

Clearly there is, because you're still wrong and still making false claims.

My argument is clearly vindicated.

Your argument is 6 feet underground. the fact that you're pretending otherwise doesn't change that.

The player did not say that explicitly, no, which I have already said.

What player? What are you talking about? That's the second time you've said player instead of poster.

So, the poster didn't say it explicitly. Excellent. Did they imply it? Directly or indirectly, doesn't matter, did they actually imply what you said they said?

You can't say something implicitly btw, that is an oxymoron.

Lies, of course you can. Here:

implicitly/ɪmˈplɪsɪtli/

adverb

1.in a way that is not directly expressed

He talked at length about coaches being the causes of Dublin's success, and dismissed funding as a contributory factor. I've shown how funding has benefited Dublin, and how volunteers are no better in Dublin than elsewhere. So I am willing to accept that I'm not wrong and that I've answered the question multiple times already.

You're dodging the question. He never said "We just have the best volunteers". He never EVEN implied it, as per the poster himself. He clarified that at a later stage. You were either mistaken, or you are deliberately misrepresenting his words. Those are the only two options here. Even now, you're trying to claim that's what he said, when he didn't. Your refusal to accept this is laid bare for all to see.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053799#Comment_122053799

Nothing ridiculous about Kerry, as you well know, but pretend not to.

Every county has a club that is more successful than others with similar resources e.g. Crossmaglen or Corofin, that is not analogous to a superclub. Kerry is such a county, and fair play to them.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053913#Comment_122053913

Kerry has had advantages for over a century , as well you know , but pretend not to.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053893#Comment_122053893

My argument has been clearly vindicated multiple times.

I meant the poster, not player- sincere apologies, I didn't think you'd get so upset. But I made a mistake in my choice of word there, I was wrong on that and apologise.

I don't accept that definition of implicit vs explicit btw- explicitly would be something said vs implicitly would be something expressed via the argument, but not said. Not important for us to continue our discussion though.

I've answered this multiple times. They didn't say "we have the best volunteers". They talk at length about coaches being the cause of Dublin's success, dismissing funding. This is wrong- coaches are no better than elsewhere and funding is indeed important.

So all I can in honesty accept is that volunteer coaches were not the cause of Dublin's success. Funding did play a role though (but was not the only thing).

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053922#Comment_122053922

They have had the advantage of being a better team without having exceptional resources. Dublin should learn from this and stop demanding to have 10 times the resources.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122054047#Comment_122054047

Actually they have the advantage of playing in a hurling province for over a century , stop demanding ? don't be ridiculous.

Straight Talker

This is nothing against Dublin here, but the GAA should introduce a limit on the amount of money counties spend on preparation of their intercounty teams per year. The GAA at the current moment in time is a professional sport in all but name. I don't see why anyone should have an issue with this either.

It's all about creating as level a playing field as possible. Of course with regards to Dublins dominance of Leinster the likes of Meath and Kildare need to do more as well. With those two counties being commuter counties for Dublin the population is there for both of them to be doing better.

A cap on spending is the fairest solution really, and then whoever breaches it gets punished in the form of fines or docked points for league games etc.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122054255#Comment_122054255

A cap on what sort of spending?

Straight Talker

Didn't i explain it in my original post? Counties should have a cap on what they spend on costs towards the preparation of their intercounty squads at all grades per year imo.