The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030782#Comment_122030782

Agreed ref the unbalanced pile of ****, think Kerry will likely win a 39th AI this year though .

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030782#Comment_122030782

That isn't that unusual. Between 1969 and 1986 (18 finals), 3 teams won 17 of them.

Between 1958 and 1991 (34 finals), only seven teams - Dublin, Kerry, Down, Meath, Offaly, Cork and Galway - won titles. It has always been the preserve of a few, and with the advantages granted to Kerry in Munster, they have benefitted the most.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030601#Comment_122030601

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-30865557.html

€13 million to be a little more precise.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030681#Comment_122030681

Even by the standards of boards, this post is especially unhelpful.

Kerry are not a problem, they are an example, and anyone who mentions Kerry is only trying to divert the discussion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030782#Comment_122030782

And one of the three has won as many as the other two put together.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031340#Comment_122031340

Disagree , Kerry are a huge part of the problem , anyone not seeing this is anti Dublin.

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031340#Comment_122031340

Kerry have 6, and 6 runner ups in that window. Dublin have 9 and no runner ups. Some of dublins wins were by the thinnest margin. If anything your example shows clearly how entwined the Dublin and Kerry issues are

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031452#Comment_122031452

Completely agree, Kerry are the biggest problem, the most dominant team, down purely to the unfair advantage of being in the hurling province. The advantage of splitting Kerry first is that the lines have already been drawn. Divisional teams with local support and stadia already exist.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030554#Comment_122030554

Again, you're just looking at the results i.e., winning or not winning. What is important is the inputs into those results. In Dublin's case, they consist of an insane combination of advantages in population, funding and playing at home. But Dublin were just good, right? But no other county enjoys advantages like this- it's why I and others have been calling for Dublin alone to be split.

Basically:

Winning fairly, even dominating for periods as Kilkenny did = no problem

Competing unfairly, even when you don't win for periods as is the case with Dublin = massive problem for the GAA

So as said before, we have no axe to grind with Dublin. The situation is not their fault. But we do want to split them to enhance the prestige, integrity and fairness of Gaelic games and enhance the competition for all counties. It's the most important reform the GAA can take because of the massive unfairness of the status quo.

How do you propose dealing with Dublin's unfair advantages?

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030601#Comment_122030601

Unfortunately you're wrong here- the Games Development funding that Dublin alone were favoured for has played a huge role in their recent success. Yes, it is not the only source of funding that they have been and are uniquely advantaged in, but it is definitely an important one. It helped to identify talented young players and bring them to their fullest potential, as well as reducing the opportunity cost from other spending. This would be great if all counties were treated equally but Dublin alone were unfairly advantaged by the GAA, again! And neutrals have a big problem with such favourtism particularly when you factor in all of Dublin's advantages.

I've been involved in this discussion for a while- interesting your argument of "We just have the best volunteers" isn't made as much in recent years, interesting to see it arise again. The other one you rarely see is the "golden generation" argument- that one has been thoroughly debunked (granted all arguments saying Dublin don't have an unfair advantage have been thoroughly debunked, but you still see some of the other ones).

So yes, millions have gone into Dublin's success from the GAA. And the money went into Dublin alone in terms of its disproportionate impact.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030681#Comment_122030681

5th time making the same joke, brilliant Dublin wit! Unfortunately you've already accepted in certain circumstances that you think Dublin should be split. You've said it yourself, multiple times actually. So you have accepted that Dublin are unfairly advantaged.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031452#Comment_122031452

But Dublin have been competing from an unfairly advantaged platform. That's the issue here. Nobody minds success when it comes fairly. Sadly, this has not been the case with Dublin.

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034529#Comment_122034529

unfortunately your entire argument distills into

Dublin winning- it’s unfair Wah I want them split

Dublin not winning - wah it’s still unfair I want them split

Kerry winning (with huge unfair advantages) - oh that’s fine nothing to see here. Oh look Dublin need splitting

Kerry not winning (in spite of huge advantages)- wah it’s all Dublins fault, split them

I mean that level of bitterness and hate is basically unhealthy for you. You’ve created this subjective reality for yourself where whatever happens you can circle back to your own belief system and validate it. Sadly it probably gives you too much comfort to realise how poisonous it is to you. I do hope at some point you get the help you need but for the moment you’re just basically shouting at the tide, convinced you’re right.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034512#Comment_122034512

I haven't actually said that, read my posts. I point out that the unfair advantages of Kerry have been in place for over a century and have led to their unfair level of success.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034507#Comment_122034507

Sorry - I never said Dublin has the best volunteers - I actually specifically said the underage coaches would be the same as they have in Kerry. In reality, they are probably better in Kerry but thats by the by. For me, underage 'coach' is a very loose term in any of the Dublin clubs I've seen. If you can lay out cones and hand out bibs, thats 70% of the work.

I made absolutely no claim that the coaches are better; but - the coaches are there and thats enough. If the kids are out playing week on week since the age of 6, with some basic coaching around skills that can be learned off youtube videos or courses, that will bring them a long way.

What Dublin has is numbers, and there is no getting around that.

It has huge volumes compared to any other county and statistically, the top 1% out of 10'000 will be better than the top 3% out 1000, all other things being equal.

The games development fund is very much at the periphery. Its one individual spread across 1000+ kids; almost by definition the impact there is not significant. Thats much more about culture, about structures and so on. They development officers would rarely if every coach an individual child; and very definitely it is not about promoting or developing elite kids.

Finally - the stat is, 30% of development funding has gone into Dublin. Is that disproportionate? Marginally at best. Dublins population is 1.5mn. RoI is 5mn.

The other thing Dublin has of course is an outstanding crop of players. That will not last. Cluxton, McCarthy, Mannion, Kilkenny, Fitzsimons are genuine all stars - best in their positions in the country and have been for a long time. They will go, and the players replacing them wont be as good.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034774#Comment_122034774

Not at all. I genuinely don't mind who (or loses) wins as long as teams are competing off a level playing field. Sadly, this is not the case currently, due to Dublin alone being uniquely unfairly advantaged vs everyone else. That's why I focus on Dublin, it's because they are the team with all the advantages. If someone else was unfairly advantaged, I'd focus on them instead but this simply isn't the case. And at I've explained numerous times, splitting Dublin will be very beneficial to Dublin as well. So I am the one arguing for measures that help a county you think I have some unjustified animosity towards, there is a massive contradiction in your argument there.

And I didn't create this reality, the GAA did. And it's because of this reality that Dublin should now have to be split into 4+ teams to rectify the current imbalances, improve prestige, integrity and fairness of the All-Ireland and help the GAA in all counties. Yes, the conversation has been repetitive but as long as people are protesting, I will keep trying to convince them that yes, Dublin alone are uniquely unfairly advantaged, and yes, Dublin alone should be split. Anyone with an open mind should be persuadable, the evidence is simply overwhelming on both of these issues.

EDIT: I've also yet to hear any of your proposals on how to deal with Dublin's unfair advantages? We are often diverted from the main purpose of the thread, it's important we bring things back on track!

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662948#Comment_121662948

@blanch152 here is a post where you accepted that Dublin should be split. You imposed some conditions which I don't agree with, but I do partially agree, on your point that Dublin should be split. I have never made any concession that I think anyone except Dublin should be split, because no other team is unfairly advantaged. Whereas you have conceded in certain circumstances that Dublin should be split. You're now trying to divert the thread with jokes and I am trying to keep your spirits up by laughing alone with you, but the fact is you have made the concession.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037121#Comment_122037121

You never said it explicitly but you talked about how they were the "product of local GAA clubs" and "and coaches that gave up their time free of charge week after week, month after month, year after year" while dismissing the impact of the money that Dublin have been received. This is a standard defence, I've seen it many times, but it's also a completely inaccurate. Yes, Dublin has selfless volunteers who give up their time, but every county has these. What other counties don't have is massive population and funding advantages- these are crucial for making a difference to fairness. I will say that at least you are conceding the points about the massive population advantage Dublin has, and how that plays into their success- some partisan Dublin fans cannot even do that so I commend you there.

Your points about the sheer quantities of top players are right. This is the population advantage that I and other neutrals often refer to. But the funding advantage is from the Games Development funding and more- it helps identify top players, develop them to their fullest potential, increase the standard within the county and reduce the opportunity cost from other spending. Now none of this would be a problem if the funding had been distributed equally (and this means all funding, including sponsorships), but it wasn't- Dublin alone were and are uniquely unfairly advantaged. By any metric you care to look at - per person, per registered player etc. Dublin were overfunded relative to everyone else. And population alone is grounds for a split, not more funding, given what an outlier Dublin already are. Nothing personal and nothing against Dublin- it's just for the good of the game and the organisation.

The golden generation argument has also been debunked. People used to say when Flynn left, when the Brogans left etc that Dublin would fade away. It hasn't happened, and won't happen because of the in-built population and funding advantages. That's why we say that things have gone so far that only a 4+ way split will now rectify things for the GAA.

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037981#Comment_122037981

I suppose Kerry have just had a golden generation for a hundred plus years….🙄

that’s why they’ve been sharing out the sponsorship they’ve received from Kerry group across Munster to develop other teams right? Remind me, that’s one of the longest standing and largest sponsorship deals in the GAA right?

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037981#Comment_122037981

I never said it.

Not, I never said it 'explicitly'.

Just, I never said it.

You are describing me as being 'completely inaccurate' on the basis of something I never said.

Regarding your point on funding advantage - You are looking at it on a per county basis, not on a per capita or player basis. That Dublin has an advantage because it gets more in absolute terms than counties. That to be equal, the each County should get exactly the same amount irrespective of size. If you think thats the right way to look at it, then best of luck with that argument.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037998#Comment_122037998

Why wouldn't Kerry Group just sponsor Kerry. The clue is in the name. Why would you suggest that they sponsor other counties. They could if they wanted, but why would they? Just like Staycity (I think) sponsor Dublin. And AIG did. I wouldn't expect them to sponsor other counties teams. Maybe they do. I don't know. Would you expect them to?

It was the Irish Government (led by Bertie) that provided the funds to Dublin (approx) €13m back around 20 years ago, that kickstarted their success from 2011 onwards. Impossible to deny this. People on here about Kerry from a hurling county, populations, demographics etc. That's all rubbish and smokescreens. There is little control GAA can have about populations, which counties play football or hurling, which counties have poor areas and so are not on equal footing with other areas and therefore poorer facilities. Every sport will have various outside influences that are not controllable. But Bertie did have control over finances. He decided that Dublin were winning feck all back in the mid 2000's, didn't like it and decided to do something about it to get them back winning. And of course it worked. The issue now is that too much funds were provided, and the money has turned Dublin GAA into an almost unstoppable beast with player after player coming off the production line. I mentor young kids in Dublin - under 10s. We are playing a club tomorrow that has over 70 under 10s (and that's only the lads). That's only one age group in one area of Dublin. When all these youngsters in Dublin progress along, there will be an army of footballers in the next 5, 10, 20 years. It is absolutely great to see them all out playing, and the great banter that goes on, and the love of the game that the kids have (well most of them anyway; there's always a few that are there cause Mam and Dad forced them to). But there is no denying that Dublin have better facilities now on account of the funding. I rock up to the pitches (10 minutes walk), and the goals are made up, the bibs and cones are lined out for me - and an endless amount of training gear (footballs, sliothars, hurls, helmets) that I want. Our club has staff (presume some of them are paid something) that do this for us, cause we have numbers in tow. Counties that did not get the Government handout don't have this luxury.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037981#Comment_122037981

You are an absolute demon for misquoting and misrepresenting people in this thread, you have been caught doing it now twice in the last 24 hrs to two separate posters. Even now, when you've been pulled on it, you are steadfastly refusing to accept that you were wrong, that what you claimed the other poster said is not true and trying to save face by saying he never said it explicitly.

He never said it, full stop.

He never implied it.

You inferred it, incorrectly.

You were corrected on your mistake and you're STILL trying to claim he said it.

Now that's either because of your poor communication and reading comprehension skills, or else you are doing it on purpose, because it paints that poster in a poor light. My money's on both, actually.

You are ascribing a position to them that they do not hold, which paints them in a bad light, because you think you have a counterargument against that position (which, again, they never held in the first place) which also paints them in a bad light. If you have to resort to such unsavoury tactics to defend your own position, perhaps it's time to reconsider that position? Or, y'know, you can keep making a holy show of yourself on this thread.

You are intellectually dishonest. A fraud. And a shameless one at that.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038206#Comment_122038206

God bless Bertie 😂🤣

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038369#Comment_122038369

No, Dublin GAA can count their blessings for Bertie.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037998#Comment_122037998

Again, you're just looking at the outputs i.e., victories and outputs. What's far more important is whether the inputs were fair or not. In Dublin's case they include massive population advantage, funding advantage (from the GAA, their sponsors, the government etc), playing consequential games at home etc. If any other county had those advantages, I'd be calling for them to be split I assure you. But as it is Dublin who enjoys the advantages, I want them to be split instead. As I said before, nothing personal, it's just for the good of the game.

Also, are you now accepting that funding is a massive advantage? This is a massive concession of you to make! Now you are beginning to see why Dublin are unfairly advantaged over all other counties. Yes, there are discrepancies in funding (and population, playing at home etc) between other counties but none of the scale as in Dublin. It's the combination, nature, scale and duration of advantages that Dublin enjoy that is unfair, not just one of those things individually.

So once again, we have to conclude that when we examine funding that Dublin alone should be split.

P.S still waiting for you to comment on how you propose to deal with Dublin's unfair advantages?

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038153#Comment_122038153

As I said, you never said it explicitly. Referring to the work of coaches alone and dismissing the funding advantages as having no bearing is what was grossly inaccurate (as was the golden generation point which you seem to no longer be arguing).

On funding, take a look through this thread and/or look at google- I'm not looking on a per county basis. On a per capita/per player basis, Dublin have been grossly overfunded relative to everyone else. Games Development say, even Cork didn't come close. So when we factor in population, already grounds for a split, we see even more clearly how significant the favourtism displayed to Dublin has been.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038345#Comment_122038345

Not at all, player make statements, insinuate things etc and yes, I counter/rebut/debunk them, I make no apologies for that, that's what a good debate/discussion is about. But I never falsely claim anything or misrepresent anyone. And when challenged on a point and presented with compelling evidence I will of course admit I was wrong. It hasn't happened frequently on this thread though I will admit but that says more about the standard of arguments of people falsely claiming Dublin alone aren't uniquely unfairly advantaged.

See my previous post for where I responded to Tombo2001- yes, he didn't say it explicitly and yes he was wrong to attribute the players' success to coaching alone and disregard the funding. There can be no debate on that one.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620656#Comment_121620656

can you imagine the conniption that would be in evidence if Dublin turned around and released a statement… “ we’d like to announce a 600,000 sponsorship with say Tesco for the naming rights to Parnell Park, deal runs over x years “ 🤪

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038864#Comment_122038864

Re the golden generation, I absolutely believe it but correct am no longer arguing it with you, as I've no interest in doing that.

I dont know what 'per player' stat you are talking about, or whats being included in that.

But according to this fairly trusted source, 30% of Games Development Funding since inception has gone to Dublin. Which to me seems reasonable.

Anyway, lets draw a line under it - send your viewpoints on it to Jarlath Burns and let him mull over them; I dont see a meeting of the minds here.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/revealed-dublins-23m-bonanza-how-capital-still-benefit-most-from-development-funding/a1536679538.html

Yeah Right

Why wouldn't Kerry Group just sponsor Kerry. The clue is in the name. Why would you suggest that they sponsor other counties. They could if they wanted, but why would they? Just like Staycity (I think) sponsor Dublin. And AIG did. I wouldn't expect them to sponsor other counties teams. Maybe they do. I don't know. Would you expect them to?

The poster you're replying to doesn't think they should sponsor anybody else. They're highlighting the hypocrisy in giving out about Dublin's sponsorship deals when they've ignored other sponsorship deals, involving their own county, for literally decades.

It is only in the last 10 years or so that certain people have been giving out about Dublin's sponsorship deals, saying the money should be distributed evenly among the rest of the county boards……e.g.

"(and this means all funding, including sponsorships)"

While their own county was raking it in from their sponsor, who is one of the largest in the country, since the early 90s, there was no talk of sharing the money around with the rest of the class. Now that the Dubs have started making money off the back of their success, these same people turned into communists and think the money should be split with everyone else.

Funny that.

Also, they'll gladly point to other perks like players getting cars while ignoring that they and others received all sorts of perks over the years. Hypocrisy is the order of the day with these guys.

Why should Dublin share their sponsorship money now when others didn't do it when they had the chance? Double standards, that's why. Do as I say, not as I do.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038887#Comment_122038887

He didn't say it explicitly.

He didn't insinuate it.

He didn't say it vaguely.

He didn't hint at it.

In fact, he never said it at all, in any capacity whatsoever.

You took him up wrong, that's on you.

He told you that you were mistaken.

I told you you were mistaken.

And you are STILL trying to maintain that that's what he said and meant, despite being corrected multiple times.

Why won't you admit that you were wrong?