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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • #32282
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009645#Comment_122009645

    Press release says "Munster Rugby and the IRFU are pleased to confirm…"

    Whenever it's a central contract, IRFU are named first.



  • #32283
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 95 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    papers saying Munster contract topped up by IRFU



  • #32284
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,470 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996878#Comment_121996878

    Personally I'd be looking to probably Doris to captain the team moving forward, but the reality is as we speak O'Mahony is the Ireland captain so I suspect he will tour SA and that is hardly a disgrace! But yes it would certainly be a good tour for the names mentioned above to be on.



  • #32285
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122010268#Comment_122010268

    I am ambivalent about the SA tour - but I can't say I would be thrilled if POM was still captain next year.



  • #32286
    Rugbyf565
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭Rugbyf565


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122010268#Comment_122010268

    what a shitshow



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  • #32287
    Rugbyf565
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭Rugbyf565


    like I’m sorry but Ahern, Prendergast, Baird are all much better blindside flankers than O’Mahony at this stage. Can’t see him keeping captaincy if he can’t perform. Time we call a spade a spade.



  • #32288
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Biggest issue with POM is that he really hamstrings the bench. He cant last 80 minutes unless in an absolute emergency so everything else has to be built around that fact.

    I understand people potentially believing there is a case that POM is better than those other options still but I cant see any argument that he is so far ahead of them and so valuable that he is worth having to adjust your whole bench strategy around his clear limitations.

    I said it months ago that my opinion is that he'll travel as a tour captain but someone else will captain one or both games with him benching or left out altogether.



  • #32289
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011711#Comment_122011711

    I understand people potentially believing there is a case that POM is better than those other options still but I cant see any argument that he is so far ahead of them and so valuable that he is worth having to adjust your whole bench strategy around his clear limitations.

    It's not like this is news to Farrell all the same. VDF and Doris are both very capable of going the full 80 I guess is the line of thinking.

    I think he has played a good role as an intermediate captain. He has lofted the trophy but it's very much time to just move on.



  • #32290
    Alessandro Vast Numskull
    Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011711#Comment_122011711

    I think your right. We should be rotating players in semi regularly in general



  • #32291
    Clegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,362 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Neil Fissler of Rugbypass reporting that Munster and the IRFU are looking at Dan Kelly and Piers O'Connor, both Irish qualified.

    https://www.rugbypass.com/news/munster-and-irfu-circling-england-centres/


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  • #32292
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122014696#Comment_122014696

    Didn't Munster not have two centres playing on the wing last week? if the French lad does leave would they not play some of them at centre?

    Would they be better at looking at other positions, from an Ireland point of view it's not really a weak area at the moment and lots of good young centres around



  • #32293
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I have a feelings, can't say why :-) , that Keenan is carrying a serious injry from the 6 nations. Leinster are nursing him from game to game, I think if they lost today he would have been out for the season

    But I could see him not going to SA



  • #32294
    aloooof
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,939 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122015830#Comment_122015830

    SOB has played centre before, but Zebo never has.

    Presume you mean Daly; iirc he played centre at underage level, but he's only ever started 1 game at centre for Munster than was that in 2018. He's clearly a winger who can also cover FB now.



  • #32295
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122015836#Comment_122015836

    No harm in the context of developing back-ups.

    Equally I'd be ok with them leaving Aki at home - Given his age and the amount of Rugby he has played giving him the summer off would be good for him.

    Any combo of Henshaw, Ringrose , McCloskey and now Osbourne is fine..



  • #32296
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,289 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122015897#Comment_122015897

    zebos started one game at 13 previously ;)



  • #32297
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022402#Comment_122022402

    I doubt Aki will want to miss a big tour like that but I can see value in resting him, it’s been a long season



  • #32298
    aloooof
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,939 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022623#Comment_122022623

    Still fewer than Leamy I think. ;)



  • #32299
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Suspect Aki will get plenty of rest in the business end of the season anyway.



  • #32300
    ionadnapóca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    "All male and female players in the XVs and sevens games, including the academies, are centrally contracted to at least some extent by the IRFU. Accordingly, they can all be called up to training sessions, development tours, A games and so forth. Deducting the 12 to 16 players on national contracts leaves circa 160 or so male players with provincial senior contracts. Each contract is underpinned by the union on a scaled payment structure of €50,000, €90,000 or €110,000, and is individually supplemented by the provinces as they see fit or can afford."

    "Interestingly, the IRFU are undertaking a review of their contractual system, which will be completed before Humphreys takes over from Nucifora."
    Irish players currently under national contracts until the end of the 2023-24 season

    Leinster (7): Andrew Porter, Tadhg Furlong, James Ryan, Josh van der Flier, Robbie Henshaw, Garry Ringrose and Hugo Keenan.

    Munster (3): Tadhg Beirne, Peter O’Mahony, Conor Murray.

    Connacht (1): Bundee Aki.

    Ulster (1): Iain Henderson.

    Irish players under national contracts in the 2024-25 season

    Leinster (10): Andrew Porter, Dan Sheehan, Tadhg Furlong, James Ryan, Josh van der Flier, Caelan Doris, Jamison Gibson-Park, Robbie Henshaw, Garry Ringrose and Hugo Keenan.

    Munster (1): Tadhg Beirne.

    Connacht (1): Bundee Aki.

    Ulster (1): Iain Henderson.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/2024/04/17/blue-bloods-irfu-national-contract-system-will-continue-to-load-the-dice-in-leinsters-favour/

    Post edited by ionadnapóca on


  • #32301
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,480 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    The worst thing about that list is that it's actually generous to Ulster. Three centres on central contract doesn't make a huge amount of sense either.



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  • #32302
    irelandrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,108 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029045#Comment_122029045

    3 second rows as well. Seems strange that 4 positions have 6 of the 13 central contracts.



  • #32303
    salmocab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029148#Comment_122029148

    The second row one is even odder looking when one of the two starters isn’t one of the 3 on a CC



  • #32304
    salmocab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    looking at the list realistically who else would deserve one now? Probably a bit early for Crowley and Joe Mc.
    Lowe and Hansen maybe?



  • #32305
    Clegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,362 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Hansen definitely. He's so important to how Ireland wants to attack. Nash played well during the Six Nations. But was a step or two down from Mack.

    Lowe deserves one as well, but he's probably too old now. Especially for an outside back.



  • #32306
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yeah Hansen is a no brainer. Agree on Lowe being too old. Think it's bit early for Crowley but he'll get one anyway.



  • #32307
    CONSI
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 679 ✭✭✭CONSI


    Crowley deserves one, we have to get behind a new number 10 so a central contract is important for that.



  • #32308
    irelandrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,108 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    If Mccarthy stays as the starting second row then at the next round I'd probably drop Ryan from his, as well as Henshaw, Henderson, and Aki.

    Hansen and maybe Lowe to get a central contract.

    To be honest i think the case for central contracts is getting less now that there isn't games during the international windows.



  • #32309
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029187#Comment_122029187

    There are always going to be those anomalies with this system.

    McCarthy has just come on the scene and has very recently usurped Henderson/Ryan in the pecking order and if that remains the case he'll probably take Hendersons/Ryans contract when it comes up for renewal.

    When one "nailed on" starter retires there isn't always an immediate person that becomes equally "nailed on".

    Right now , Crowley looks like the long term replacement for Sexton but you wouldn't be giving him a central contract just yet. All those on Central contracts have been established regular starters for Ireland for 3+ years before that got that contract.

    As I understand it the primary difference (in terms of value) between an international on a central contract and one on a provincial contract is that match fees are guaranteed.

    So for example - using random figures ,a Provincial International has a contract for €150k/year and if they are involved in all the Ireland match day squads for a season , they get an additional €50k for those involvements.

    The Central contract player just has a flat contract of €200k regardless of their level of involvement , although the assumption is that they would be playing all the games.

    Maybe the IRFU could not pay the core contract value any more and just guarantee the "match fee" element for more players for longer.

    So instead of paying the full value for ~13 players they could guarantee the match fee element for 25/30 players which would cover a large chunk of the guys regularly involved in teams and squads.

    It's all their money anyway , it's just a change in how the account for it and report it.



  • #32310
    ionadnapóca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Each contract is underpinned by the union on a scaled payment structure of €50,000, €90,000 or €110,000, and is individually supplemented by the provinces as they see fit or can afford.

    I didn't know the extent of this IRFU payment structure for Provincial contracts. I'm assuming most of the contracts for the Provincial players in and around the national Squad are financed at this €90,000 or €110,000 scale.

    https://www.irishrugby.ie/2022/05/11/hansen-signs-new-long-term-deal-with-connacht/

    Based on above (and I'm assuming because it was an IRFU article) Hansen signed a new contract in 2022 (expiring 2025) with €110,000 per season from the IRFU.

    Because he's now a mainstay in the starting XV he'll go onto a central contract at the end of 2025.



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  • #32311
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,289 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029297#Comment_122029297

    its not a maximum figure, its a subsidy per contract.

    so far example with hansen, there is no indication that his contract IS 110k. Its very very likely that Connacht are topping up his contract on top of the 110k.

    as to what the final figure is, we dont know, nor should we know.

    for example, at leinster James Lowe is absolutely on more than 110K



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