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Mass stabbing event in Sydney - **Read OP before posting**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭Danye


    It’s a thread on a horrific crime with multiple fatalities.

    What were you expecting?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Heartbreaking that the mother of the baby died. Hopefully the baby survives. I felt so sorry for the two men who helped and were interviewed straight after. They both looked completely in shock.

    Obviously due to the amount of women that were stabbed he was a coward. Regardless of how his mental problems were affecting him he still knew to act those that are less likely to fight him off.

    Stabbing a baby though, Jesus. Unbelievable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,132 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    *uck that. I've heard they do the same in South Africa and that living in security fenced enclaves with guards works wonders for safety, but as an Australian, I don't want to see any of this crap in Australia, just because of one isolated incident in a lifetime.

    When someone can drive a vehicle into a crowd, it makes tougher knife laws, Orwellian Police powers and all such post incident hand-wringing genius solutions moot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,504 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Again, the point is not that stop and search cannot prevent crime.

    It is that it won't prevent spree killings. So it is nothing but emotive posturing to start shouting for stop and search after a scenario like this.

    That man could have been searched at the door, then walked to one of the stores, bought a knife and started his attack.

    Random stop and search is a complete red herring here, so the OP should give over about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 88,244 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Except you have no idea if the person is an immigrant or not and yet you have to use people's death for a point. Before the people are even cold.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭Sean Quagmire


    every major killing spree lately has been labelled “not a terrorist incident”. It’s lost its meaning altogether. Same perpetrators every time. Should we start calling it what it actually is instead? The glaringly obvious…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭Sean Quagmire


    grand, I’ll come back in a few hours when the obvious has been confirmed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,755 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Throwing piles of guns into the mix is hardly a solution.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,597 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Australia is a country of mass immigration and it's one of the best places to live in the world though. One person going nuts doesn't make it otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Some bars in Sydney have airport style metal detectors on the way in to stop propel bringing in knives/guns. I know Shark Bar just off Elizabeth Street does.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    Pathologising men is no less reductive than pathologising Muslims

    There are a small number of very messed up people

    My theory is a deeply unpopular one but I believe it's far too difficult to incarcerate people who are so mentally ill as to be a huge threat to others

    We have seen examples in Ireland of parents ( men and women) who murdered their own children



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Why not? It worked in this case. An armed woman was able to keep others safe and remove the thread of the male attacker. Maybe we shouldn't arm women with guns but tasers instead. Train girls in schools on how to properly defend themselves and others with tasers and make it their legal right to own a taser. Instead of having women be worried about where they go etc. We warn violent men that if they try to attack anyone, they are likely to be tasered and incapacitated until they are arrested. This obviously won't work in all situations but it would certainly help women defend themselves and others.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,351 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty




  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,351 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,290 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Men unable to control themselves? I dont know, would that not be a bit extreme to blame a whole group for the actions of one or two?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,755 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Not really, it will just massively increase the number of weapons out there. It would not reduce attacks significantly, it could actually make attacks worse with violent men having easy access to weapons when ever they want.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭yagan


    Somehow even if it's an Aussie gone psycho our resident racists will make it about immigration.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,351 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty




  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,351 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    If posters wish to speculate with the intention of trolling then fire ahead - you will be threadbanned

    Let the relevant authorities determine intent rather than speculate here

    Any questions PM me - do not reply to this post in thread



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    genuine question, what is it that classifies an atrocity like this as a “terrorist attack”?


    It seems to be recent enough for authorities to announce whether the slaying of innocent civilians is either “terrorist related” or “non terrorist related” in order to absolve certain groups of any responsibility. It’s an almost childlike classification system, á la Joe Bidens infamous “that was the other team” announcement after the hospital bombing in Gaza. To my mind, any random, unprovoked and indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians is a terrorist attack, since when has there been a label or classification system in place and what is it exactly that qualifies an attack as “terrorist”?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭yagan


    If the attack was specifically gender motivated then wouldn't it be gender terrorism?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,472 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Speaking purely as a lay person to me a terrorist attack as reported by the media in the past , tended to involve some sort of planned organisation amongst a number of people who would have been affiliated with a group known to be labelled as a terrorist group, fighting one cause or another.

    The use of the term is also an indication of security levels and security woild likely be tightened under such conditions - so saying it’s not a terrorist attack gives some comfort to those living in that city this evening. So such a pronouncement does have an impact


    In modern day, (AND IM NOT REFERRING TO THIS CURRENT SITUATION) - we’re probably seeing more attacks by individuals who claim they did what they did for a particular cause. Whether they did or not, is probably one for the police and psychiatrists to work out. I imagine if they have no proven links to an actual terrorist group aside from maybe engaging in online discussion or accessing radical websites and whatnotetc, then they’re probably labelled sick in the head, and the act isn’t labelled as terrorism.

    Saying all of that it’s a massive cold comfort to the victims and their families regardless of how the killer or killers decided one day that killing people was a good idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Loosely it would be any action that is designed to change a political position, a social position etc by terrorizing a population. Even that the activity of discombobulation is justified enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    We're not giving men the weapons. You suggested that we should encourage men to intervene in violent situations, why not encourage women?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,076 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    He was known to the cops so they would have an idea about his background ASIO were also involved they would be fairly sure if he was involved with any groups on the radar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,076 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    ..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,504 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    I don't pretend to know specifics, but I always assumed they make the distinction because terrorist attack brings the implication that more could happen. There could be another bomb, or another plane, or another psycho because it was an organised and planned attack. So people remain fearful when its a "terror" attack.

    Saying it is not a terror attack brings the implication that it was a lone nut and so it now over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,076 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    That's a condition on the license and it's a farce. Everyone sets it off and you can't search or even pat them down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Very controlled immigration.

    I've spent a lot of time there,try turning up and saying you lost your passport and see how far you get.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 925 ✭✭✭thegame983


    Australia has very tight immigration (I believe).

    Regardless of where he's from I doubt he hopped on a boat in Tunisia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,784 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    So are we also blaming all plane travellers when we make them all go through security controls and even dump their bottles of water? Or are we trying - as far as possible - to keep everyone safe?

    Why are measures to keep women safe always beyond the pale for so many?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,523 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    99% of frontline soldiers are men too. And firefighters. Its the human condition. 99.99% of men are alright too and don't be thinking about killing people 24/7.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,755 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Because it won't work and would likely make things more dangerous. Think it through.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,784 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Sonic the Shaghog


    Well sure knife laws would be great but anytime different places had a stop and search which began to become effective but it was found to be males of mostly two particular demographics always carrying it was suddenly racist and needed to stop due to "profiling", London for example is a mess again due to stop and search and all we hear is cries that the authorities aren't doing enough.

    You can have a sentence for carrying a knife all you want but in that case you'll need to wait until one is pulled and probably someone attacked to do anything about it and it becomes moot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Sonic the Shaghog


    Didnt work out too well for the poor natives though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭HBC08


    100%,

    This is a bit off topic but you dont get into Australia unless they want you there.

    I have spent a ot of time there and will likely retire there,they get a lot wrong but they don't fook about with immigration and everybody accepts it.

    Ps,I wouldn't be able to retire there except I will likely have permanent residency by then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,523 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Agreed. Certainly terrorism if you're on the shortlist of their ideation. Or indeed merely witness to it. As even we are.

    But the police are clearly trying to calm the public that its not something with more legs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,784 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Before anyone says it, I'm not saying all men are potential mass murderers,

    Part of the problem, IMO, is that you have to say that at all. Nobody thinks that drink driving tests or speed radars are "blaming all drivers". They presume that if they aren't breaking the law, then they aren't being blamed, and that the measures are necessary to sort out the law breakers from the others.

    So why do so many men always seem to feel they are somehow targeted by any discussion of male violence against women? Why doesn't the same logic apply? Or do they feel some sort of empathy with violent men in general?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    Because outside of sexual violence, men are most likely to be the victims of assaults and homicide statistically. Which means if you feel the need to give women more methods of protecting themselves you'll also have to give them to men too. I wouldn't be too sure that would be a path we should go down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,554 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Stop and search is racist. It's also pointless in this situation.

    If it wasn't then drug related stop and search in London would target white people in suits around the London Bridge area or around Bank which are absolutely drowning in cocaine.

    Only my black friends have been stopped in London. None of my equally drugged up white friends were.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭yagan


    I think it's becoming accepted that lone wolf attacks are terrorism if they're rooted in radicalisation inspired by online messaging.

    I remember reading about jihadi Jane being labelled an Islamic terrorist, when in fact she'd had never had never been in a mosque before travelling to Ireland.

    She'd been motivated by YouTube videos of children suffering under Israeli brutality.

    The media lost interest in the jihadi angle once there wasn't a religious aspect and that it showed ordinary "white" people motivated by others sufferings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭yagan


    I loved there for a few years.

    They're not as strict as people think. Illegal immigrants have been granted residency if they do regional work for five years.

    Plus an Indian colleague told me that there's a whole reference industry in India that give false testimony for Aussie immigration when references are being checked.

    Interestingly Aussie immigration never checked our Irish references even though it was advertised that that would happen for our sponsorship visa.

    They talk a tough talk but their immigration system is full of holes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,755 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Because it is generally done with ignorance and vitriol. We have seen in Ireland ludicrous suggestions that men need to be trained not to be violent and even that men should need a licence to go out in public. This type of narrative dominates rather than a serious discussion of practical solutions.

    If anyone thinks that nonsense will make women safer good luck to them, they are dreaming.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,784 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    No it doesn't mean that. Men are dangerous, to themselves and to women. Arming dangerous men is a bad idea. If you develop a test for identifying the non dangerous ones, we can reconsider that.

    Women OTOH are the ones who are victims of men, and the main reason there are fewer female victims is because there are already many places where women limit their own freedom and just don't go there already - don't go out running at night, don't walk home on their own etc etc. If women took the freedoms that men do, there'd be far more female victims. So the number isn't an excuse - quite the opposite.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    You missed this part of my post:

    'Before anyone says it, I'm not saying all men are potential mass murderers, I'm saying that all mass murderers are highly likely to be men.'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,784 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    We have seen in Ireland ludicrous suggestions that men need to be trained not to be violent and even that men should need a licence to go out in public.

    You do realise that that comment was made ironically? Precisely because nobody would take such a suggestion seriously, but women have often been told not to go out alone?

    That you've turned an ironic comment into a "narrative" is itself deeply ironic.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Why won't it work? Give women the opportunity to defend themselves and others. 99% of violent assaults are committed by men. It seems obvious that we should arm those who are far, far less likely to commit these assaults.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Because they are usually the same people targeting all Muslims when they discuss Muslims, so they assume everyone else thinks like they do



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