Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself? [Threadbanned users in 1st post]

Furze99 · 31-03-2024 02:00PM

OK, here's two suggestions to make the site better: the first serious and the second slightly tongue in cheek but would work.

all specific threadbans should expire after a certain time. A month or whatever. That would keep posters on board and lessen the workload a bit. As long it was not abused by mods to shut people up for a while without proper cause.

2. Boards can be great if you're looking for assistance with hobbies, work projects, tech and so on. These are non controversial on the whole. So close down the Current Affairs/ IMHO type forums & threads which deal with more controversial everyday events. I don't believe it's possible to moderate most of these effectively and fairly. Of course, this would drive down site use as many posters come for a bit of debate and so on.

Tell me how · 31-03-2024 02:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959301#Comment_121959301

I'm not blaming you. I'm saying this situation should not exist where people do not know the structures in which they operate. I mean, someone isn't going to get a handle on this knowledge overnight, but that is not the case here.

It is 100% the fault of those managing the site that this situation exists. And I don't neccessarily mean that it is Mike who is at fault for this either.

31-03-2024 02:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959301#Comment_121959301

What this revelation makes me wonder is how very rare it must be for a report on a mod to actually be upheld, if, several years after the changeover to Vanilla, that this has never come up at Admin level before.

That says a lot about how such reports are being handled, down the chain.

Furze99 · 31-03-2024 02:13PM

At risk of repeating, I'd appreciate if someone will explain the meaning of the mod warnings given in two of the current more controversial threads on the site: how does one post on these threads if you can't report experiences or stories and so on?? It's a licence to threadban posters on a whim, as far as I can see and should not be tolerated?

Mod warnings:

23/02/24 - Drop the anecdotes, they are getting out of hand in this thread. Unverifiable and agenda driven stories, typically designed to rile people up or get a reaction. They will result in threadbans if they continue. Previous threads were closed because they got so bad.

and

Mod warning posted 06/03/23

Personal so called anecdotes are what caused the original Ukrainian refugee thread to be closed

Any more can expect threadbans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058298745/immigration-to-ireland-policies-challenges-and-solutions-read-op-before-posting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058281647/time-for-a-zero-refugee-policy-read-op-for-mod-warnings-and-threadbans-updated-5-1-24

Big Bag of Chips · 31-03-2024 02:14PM

I'm saying this situation should not exist where people do not know the structures in which they operate

In any situation people will exist and not know the full structures in which they operate... Until a situation arises that they've never seen before. And then they learn from that. It's why we are surrounded by people with different levels of experience in many areas. So if there's something we don't know, or haven't encountered yet, we can look to the ones who already have the knowledge for guidance.

I will put my hands up, I still regularly ask questions or look for second opinion from other Admins when I am not sure of something. Is that not a good thing? There is so much about the site I don't know. There are so many forums I've never visited. There are moderators I've probably never heard of! If I'm not confident of something I won't weigh in. I'll let someone more knowledgeable deal with it.

And this is a "massive red flag" 🤷🏻‍♀️

Big Bag of Chips · 31-03-2024 02:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959340#Comment_121959340

I started as a mod in Personal Issues in the Society and Culture section. I rarely ventured into AH or CA for example. I don't think I've ever visited Sport!

As a result I tend to stay away from issues in those particular sections unless specifically called on, because I know there are others with far superior knowledge than me in those areas.

What I can tell you is I have contacted moderators myself, even without seeing anything reported, if I see them posting in a way that I feel isn't appropriate. I have contacted the Cat-Mods of the section to ask them to keep an eye and maybe steer in the right direction.

I know posters would like to think it's all one big boys' club with everyone protecting their own and ignoring the average poster, but that is absolutely not how it works. I rarely visit the reported posts forum. I have excellent co-mods in any forum I'm a moderator of and depend on them! However I do read a lot and I sometimes spot a post I don't like the look of and will contact the moderator directly.

evolvingtipperary101 · 31-03-2024 02:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958706#Comment_121958706

'Just because you think a mod is being a Dick, doesn't actually mean they are of course, the poster reporting might be the Dick for instance.'

There you go again. You find it impossible to entertain the idea that a mod is being a dick. Always turning it back on a poster. It's actually a condition at this point.

A mod wouldn't be human if they weren't capable of being a dick.

Put this on your mirror for future reference

A mod is capable of being a dick
A poster is capable of identifying when a mod is being a dick
Everyone is capable of being a dick (including me)
Not all posters are dicks
Not all posters have an agenda
Mods, like posters, are capable of reporting something, warning about something, banning about something that is not right.
If I keep sticking up for all mods just for the sake of it, posters will see through it and it will negate the support when its actually required in good faith.

ShamoBuc · 31-03-2024 02:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959396#Comment_121959396

There you go again - only seeing it from one perspective.

I've said before, I'll say it again, if a post needs a warning, it should get it.

Not sure what part of that you cannot understand.

Necro · 31-03-2024 02:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959302#Comment_121959302

Threadbans can be dropped at any stage, they aren't time specific. The poster just needs to re-engage with the moderator. I did it all the time when I used to mod CA and COVID. It does take a genuine effort though, someone contacting me making demands or throwing abuse is obviously going to get short shrift.

Posters can sometimes feel like a warning is a personal affront and that the mod has it out for them and honestly, that is not the case. It's just an advisory to modify their posting style so it doesn't break any rules.

My advice for people is if you get a warning, instead of PMing the mod in a frenzy and starting discussion off on the wrong foothold, go for a walk, have a cup of tea, do anything to disconnect. Then come back and engage in a civil discussion. If it doesn't work then you still have the option of dispute resolution where a CMod and/or admin can review the warning. I've had posters come to me before and say "yep I messed up there really sorry" and have sometimes lifted the warning at that stage even if it should be actioned (post normally edited by poster/myself on agreement or just deleted). We can all have a bad day!

31-03-2024 02:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959382#Comment_121959382

This isn't about how you personally carry out your role BBOC. I think it's a bigger, site wide issue.

However, I will say that you yourself have said that rather then give a mod a warning, they are given a nudge or some advice on how to be better, and honestly, how nice for them!

The average poster does not get the same consideration.

They get posts deleted, on thread warnings, threadbans, etc and are told if they have a problem with any of that go to Help Desk or Dispute Resolution where they are shunted from billy to jack, and there is so rarely an outcome in their favour that most posters won't even bother trying to engage with it.

You say its not all one big boys' club with everyone protecting their own and ignoring the average poster, but honestly, from this side it sounds exactly like one.

evolvingtipperary101 · 31-03-2024 02:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959422#Comment_121959422

Oh, I understand all too well. It's why those who say reporting mods is a waste of time - which is completely true. Flipping logic and not engaging with the points of a post is not good faith posting.

ShamoBuc · 31-03-2024 02:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959475#Comment_121959475

My point is very clearly made - good faith posting indeed.

JP Liz V1 · 31-03-2024 02:46PM

What's the hierarchy here

Mike

Admin

Cmod

Mod

?

EmmetSpiceland · 31-03-2024 02:51PM

Mad how a “certain type” of poster thinks that the mods are acting on every reported post and shutting down threads as a result.

A mod cannot act on any post that doesn’t break the rules. There’s nothing in the rules about someone feeling “offended”. However, if someone is uncivil, attacking the poster, ignoring mod instruction etc. that’s an actionable offence.

The mods can disagree with a reported post and take no action if they feel it doesn’t contravene the rules but if a post is reported for something that doesn’t break the rules the mods won’t be able to do anything about it.

If you want a thread kept open, don’t want to be threadbanned or sitebanned then just don’t break the rules. It’s quite simple, really, but for some reason a certain “cohort” just can’t seem to get their heads around it.

Big Bag of Chips · 31-03-2024 02:51PM

@Ezeoul I'm the one replying so obviously I'm going to speak from how I personally mod. I PM posters a lot more than I warn.

I delete a posters off-topic/arguing mod action posts rather than warn them. Often the post isn't worth a warning but if left it will disrupt the thread.

As I said I don't tend to contribute much to the more contentious areas of Boards so can't speak for the moderators there. But I tend to favour encouraging posters rather than the sledgehammer approach. The poster who brought his dispute onto this thread is one perfect example! He was treated with absolute respect by both me and the mod dealing with him. Neither of us were abusive or "power hungry" in our communication with him. He claimed to have gotten 22 warnings! He didn't. He had 22 PMs from a moderator who went above and beyond. So.. if I'm dealing with a problem moderator, I'm going to approach it similarly. I will give them a chance until it becomes clear that they're out of chances.

That mightn't happen as quickly as some posters might like. But I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt rather than go straight to banning.

Now at this stage ezeuol I'm going to bow out. I've explained as much as I can how things happen behind the scenes and I know I'm not going to convince those who don't want to be convinced.

The thread is throwing up some good ideas. These will all be considered.

31-03-2024 03:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959468#Comment_121959468

The problem with that is "engage with the mod" is synonymous with admit you were in the wrong (even if you weren't) and grovel for their forgiveness.

Anything less than complete submission is "refusing to engage".

Posters can sometimes feel like a warning is a personal affront and that the mod has it out for them and honestly, that is not the case. It's just an advisory to modify their posting style so it doesn't break any rules.

Except when it is the case?

As has been said already, and even admitted by some former mods on thread, mods can be dicks too, and have actioned or banned posters just because they didn't like them.

Until these issues are recognised as an abuse of privilege, and somehow addressed, the complaints about moderation will continue, and I can't see how things will ever change.

ShamoBuc · 31-03-2024 03:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959584#Comment_121959584

That might be your own experience.

I've often engaged with posters and come to a mutual understanding. Depends on the situation of course.

JP Liz V1 · 31-03-2024 03:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959468#Comment_121959468

If only but worth to keep trying but will mods see it as annoying pestering

I like the idea of threadbans expiring after a month

Necro · 31-03-2024 03:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959584#Comment_121959584

That's not true at all or at least not from my perspective. I'm not here to change the world or your own personal views. I don't need someone to apologise. I certainly don't need grovelling!

Civil discussion simply means, hi XYZ can you explain why I was warned for this?

That's a decent enough starting point.

sydthebeat · 31-03-2024 03:24PM

....

Green Peter · 31-03-2024 03:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958769#Comment_121958769

They just circle the wagons in a nice formation

ShamoBuc · 31-03-2024 03:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959636#Comment_121959636

If you say so.

I've seen them do the opposite, but there you go.

Green Peter · 31-03-2024 03:30PM

The moving of this to feedback.is an attempt to sideline the debate and eventually to shuting it down

yagan · 31-03-2024 03:30PM

If things are a lot quieter than back in the peak perhaps the modding shareload could be shared across all new posts rather than mods attached to particular topics.

I do think the reductive nature of reddit will eventually kill that site, but there's still a need for discussion forums like boards, and as another poster to this mentioned there may be a renewal for younger generations to simply have a place to discuss information relevant to Ireland and the EU without the profit driven click monsters like FB, twatter and now the publically traded Reddit. They thrive on argument and confrontation, whereas I find many useful bits of information here often by simply looking back through old threads.

31-03-2024 03:30PM

Quite honestly, with the current site software I don’t really see how this can ever be fixed.

The UX was a just a huge downgrade. There’s no other way of putting it. I can’t see a single positive about about this system from an enduser’s point of view.

31-03-2024 03:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959219#Comment_121959219

I think you are misunderstanding me.

you apologise for having a different opinion, I am telling you there is no need to. It’s fine to have a different perspective to me. That doesn’t upset me.

31-03-2024 03:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959244#Comment_121959244

right, as I explained to Oscar, I don’t care that his opinion is different insofar as it’s not necessary to apologise.

perhaps you should put your pitchfork down and stop getting so animated over what I said.

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it a thousand times if the admins feel I’m doing a poor job they can and will let me know.

31-03-2024 03:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959597#Comment_121959597

It may surprise you that I haven't had that many run-ins with mods.

But in my limited experience, some moderators you can come to - if not an agreement - than at least a middle ground.

Others are just dicks. 🤷

Of course, others have shared their experiences with me. My experience is not unique.

Sephiroth_dude · 31-03-2024 03:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959644#Comment_121959644

No its not, I moved it here myself because it belongs here and not in AH.

ShamoBuc · 31-03-2024 03:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959644#Comment_121959644

What a strange comment - considering there are 350 posts already in a couple of days.

Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself? [Threadbanned users in 1st post]

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