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The roads logjam

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    There will be a full list published, with all the details, just as there was last year. Nobody is keeping secrets, but it takes time to put together the whole thing and double check it.

    Because they are part of the process the TDs and councillors got to hear news early, and because they're TDs and councillors, they're using the info to improve their image with the electorate. It was ever thus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    These are long term multi-year projects, the time taken to compile a list should not be material to the process.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I have had to compile similar documents (in a different field) in the past, and I can tell you it takes time to compile and publish a report like this. That goes double for one intended for wide distribution, where you don't have the option of emailing on a corrected copy. This is an official document of record, so the information needs to be correct before it is published.

    The elected representatives took their own notes at the meeting and are telling their constituents about them, as is part of their job, but nothing is official until it is published.

    Post edited by KrisW1001 on


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    TII's allocations will be out next week. Very detailed pdf as every year.

    The local & regional allocations are usually less clear when they are published. Most of it is resurfacing and maintenance money apart from a few small "strategic projects" (recent examples Carrigaline relief road, Killaloe bridge/bypass, Athy SDR etc), most of which are small and the scale of them is usually blown out of all proportions in press releases etc.

    There shouldn't really be a need for Ministers to turn up to have an opening ceremony for a 1km single carriageway local authority project, generally the existence of which was puzzling/embarrassing before it was constructed.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Interesting how the Government are allocating a sum of 4x the entire budget for new roads for 2024 to one road project in a different jurisdiction

    Especially considering the roads that connect to the A5 in the south are cattle tracks and the Minister is doing his level best to keep them that way



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  • Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Westernview


    I agree with the government making a significant contribution but that does seem huge. How much is the total A5 contract?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,468 ✭✭✭✭L1011




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,808 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    They know that they won't actually have to pay out on it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    2024 Grant Allocations to Local Authorities for National Roads, Active Travel and Greenways




  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭Limerick74


    Quite a few big schemes to be stalled / delayed again this year with insufficient funding. Would be better to defund them rather than give them unworkable allocations.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,808 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I have been saying that here for years, we are stringing too many projects along at a slow pace with very little progress being made overall. Everything getting tens to a couple of hundred grand a year but only enough to keep ticking over, not enough to really push on.

    The budget for new roads is supposed to increase from 2026 but apart from the Slane and Ardee bypasses, there is not going to be much that has cleared planning and is ready for construction at that stage.

    Resources should have been thrown at a smaller number of projects to get them into ABP and ready to go from 2026. Instead, funding has been spread too thin and we'll have a large number of projects only going to ABP from 2026 which will be again overloaded.

    We are even skimping on Foynes - Limerick now for no good reason, it should have been ramping up with significant progress and payments being made in 26, instead the measly project will be winding down then.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Any projects in particular come to mind?

    M11 Oilgate-Rosslare was meant to be ABP ready this year. The N21 bypasses in Limerick look measly enough too.

    Then again, 145m in funding is absolutely pathetic for this year. There is no justification for it when there is 3 projects meant to be under construction by year end (N21 Adare 2027, M28 Cork-Rinagskiddy and the now u/c N5 Ballaghaderreen-Scramoge)



  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭Limerick74


    N72 Mallow, N21 Bypasses, N3 Virginia, and N24 to name a few.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,598 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    You'll have to wait until the Greens are out of transport to get anything done unfortunately. It's deliberate interference in delivery of vital infrastructure for ideological purposes.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Additional 2.25bn in capital spending allocated between 2024-2026.

    That €2.25 billion will be split over three years, and the lions share of new funding will go to transport, health, education and climate spending.

    No mention of specific projects.

    It'll also be interesting to see now that the Government has a leader who actually appears interested in doing his job and is alive to the fact there's an election to be fought in the next 12 months if there will be any changes to the attitude to the roads program

    It's somewhat reassuring that there's a good chance that within the next 12 months we may have new leadership in the DoT who will hopefully be interested in advancing the roads program rather than urinating on it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,808 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Which road projects can they actually spend any additional allocation on between 2024-2026?

    The N5 project is already on site and the M21 and M28 are progressing to tender and have funding committed. The Foynes leg of Foynes - Limerick has been cut so that probably means roads spend will be behind previous estimates. The Slane and Ardee bypasses might start in that period if approved by ABP but they aren't huge and probably covered under current spending profiles.

    There will be little or nothing from roads ready for construction to avail of the increased funding the between 24 and 26.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The Foynes to Rathkeale road has not been cut. Attyflin to Croagh is being prioritised ahead of the rest so Adare can be bypassed for the Ryder Cup.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,808 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    It won't start construction before 2027 so won't be availing of this additional funding is the point I was making.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Can the M21 from Croagh to Rathkeale and the Foynes link start before 2027 if adequately resourced? I can't think of any reason why not.

    In terms of increased funding between now and 2026, perhaps resources to get the roads projects in advanced planning over the line in that timeframe and into pre-construction phase. The 3 Donegal TEN-T projects, the two N21 bypasses, Virginia, Carrick on Shannon, the M20, the N17 bypasses, Tipp Town, the M11 etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    "The minister for transport said that “corrupt rezoning” had gifted the country a car dependent transport network"

    Ryan certainly hasn't changed his message and the absence of shovel ready projects won't be too much of an issue if Ryan continues to get his way. Hopefully the election will focussing the sights of the other two parties in government and we will see the fight that has been brewing for some time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,992 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    That statement has little bearing on intercity and inter-town roads network though



  • Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Paschal Donohoe on the radio earlier said that the majority of the extra 2.25bn announced is to cover inflation increases and to progress projects already scheduled in the NDP and with a small portion of it for additional projects to be announced later in the year. He denies it's pre-election spending so time will tell.

    Inflation is such a problem right now but I think they are taking the right approach to keep projects going.

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/donohoe-denies-multibillion-euro-spending-plan-linked-to-election-1607144.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭Hibernicis




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭beachhead


    All roads should lead to nowhere says Eamonn



  • Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭Frostybrew




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