Why wont die hard GAA fans admit football these days is muck?

I find that an odd premise as the key to Donegal's success was possession football relying heavily on the handpass, forcing Dublin to engage and Donegal winning the turnover and breaking.

Here is a (surprisingly good) piece of tactical analysis from Joe Brolly on Donegal's system written on the 16th September 2014 after that 2014 match. It was from the vantage point of the Davin/Canal end I mentioned earlier where you can see the positioning of the players.

"Donegal's is a style of play that has a smothering effect on the opposition; an operation where all involved know exactly what they are doing as the route to goal is shut off and the counter-attack is characterised by hard running."

"The process was evolving and in 2012, Donegal, as a force, were more purposeful in attack. The county's 20-year wait for an All-Ireland title was at an end."

"Two years on, we wondered whether Jimmy's system could still reap dividends? It did to telling effect against Dublin three weeks ago."

"Of course, the narrative would have been different if Dublin had converted two decent goal chances in the first half. How would the master plan have worked if Donegal were facing a substantial scoring difference after 20 minutes?"

"One can only wonder, but the Ulster side eventually went on to gain a crucial foothold in the semi-final clash."

--

In my opinion game was less about hand pass v kick pass but one teams tactical system of play which was superior on the day. The objective was not to allow Dublin possession in danger areas, force Dublin to take shots from range (which are unsustainable), win back possession keep the ball and break quickly.

It was a question of kick passing = good. handpassing = bad. That is a childish premise in my view and shows limited tactical analysis of what happens in games.

If anything the 2014 game proved that handpassing when done correctly, mixed with a running game, aimed to counter it is very effective against teams who just want to attack with no real plan.

Ironically, the Gavin initiative is being informed by statistics. People actually counted handpasses and other aspects of the play. But like I said before, he can't come up with some of the radical proposals seen on this thread. Because the players won't stand for that sort of interference with they way they want to play the game. Burns is already showing himself as being someone who will pass on decisions on stuff like this to others like Gavin. Which I would do as well if I knew I was in a job which is going to last only three years.

The stats do show an increase in hand passes, but they were still a significant element of the game in the past. One very positive stat is how much longer the ball is in play in the modern game. Must be due to a lot of kick passes going over the sideline in the past, and shots from distance going wide, with the delays that follow. Possession play keeps the ball in the field of play much longer.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0928/1407954-new-study-outlines-stark-extent-of-possession-football/

"The average number of hand passes per game has increased from 251 in 2011 to 421 in this year's (2023) championship. Despite the increase in hand passing, there has not been a comparable slide in foot passing. While kicking was on the decrease from 2011 to 2018, it has started to level off at approximately 130 passes per game."

"The ball was in play for an average of 34 minutes in the 2011 season and now stands at 45 minutes, 30 seconds, a 32% increase over 13 seasons."

In the preview in the programme Meath v Louth, the commentator wrote this:

"Ger Brennan has been very vocal in his opinion that a goalkeeper's main role is to be at home minding the house, and under his stewardship to date Louth have reverted to having a more traditional type of goalkeeper in the side in comparison to how the side operated under the reign of Mickey Harte, when players more noted for their outfield abilities lined out between the sticks. Niall McDonnell from the St Fechins club has come in this season and was in superlative form against Cork, and to further illustrate that Louth have reverted to traditional type in terms of goalkeepers, Craig Lynch has returned to the panel in recent weeks after being away from the inter-county scene in the past couple of years."

Indeed the Louth keeper did mostly stay at home in the Navan game. Whereas the Meath keeper played the modern role. But whatever learnings / takeaways * Brennan got from that defeat for Louth, in the Ardee game v Cavan, the keeper spent a lot of his time up the field, and well into the oppositon half. You can't believe half of what you read these days.

*Apologies to gormdubhgorm for the "learnings". I must be some sort of misfit who enjoys seeing innovations in language useage, as well as in football😃

Some lad on the Sports News this morning talking about 'Possessional Football' and 'Transitional Football'. I was puzzled as I thought they were discussing Gaelic Football.

*Apologies to gormdubhgorm for the "learnings". I must be some sort of misfit who enjoys seeing innovations in language useage, as well as in football

You are not wrong.

That stuff with the wall would be good traning for GAA Handball, which uses courts with walls. Probably not so much for the other Handball which is a bit like basketball, but with goals and goalkeepers instead of hoops. Either way, you can't rename GAA football into Handball, even if that would make you happy. There are plenty of training routines for GAA footballers to hone their hand passing techniques, without using walls. Keep watching the fooball if you can abide the horror.

I don't know whether to take this story seriously. Marty Clarke to return to county football with Down as a goalkeeper, in the sweeper keeper mode. The goalkeeper position is certainly becoming more important in modern football. I can't see the players taking any diktats from on high trying to force them to revert to old norms.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/0305/1436053-clarke-in-line-for-shock-down-return-as-a-goalkeeper/

Nobody wants to see anyone "kicking aimlessly" crusty?

Finally a sensible and honest post. What is killing both codes as a spectacle ironically enough is the proffesional approach to physical and tactical preparation of teams. When teams trained twice a week and played a game at the weekend as proper amateurs do, there was less cynicism and games were more random without coached induced patterns, that day is gone and if there is an appetite for it the only way to stop the cult of the coach is to reduce the amount of time teams are allowed to train, I doubt there is an appetite for this. I don't like the massive gym bunny builds inter county hurlers seem to need now, they are like rugby players probably getting up in the middle of the night to eat to keep the condition on. Hurling was a game of skill played by hardy fit lads now it has turned into a game of rucks played by muscle bound robots.

But if restrictions on handpassing were introduced and nothing was done to free up space that is what would happen. And the rewards for ultra defensive tactics would increase

You would see more kicking for a purpose.

As you should have see if you had time to read this thread, my opinion is that the handpass and its excesses have seriously diminished the game.

Kicking a football “aimlessly” is kicking i o ver the side,line, trying to find a teammate with a kick is not “kicking aimlessly”.

Lofting a ball into the square is not “kicking aimlessly “ its giving your attackers a chance to gain possession in a dangerous zone.

This business of both sets of players trundling back and forth after 20 or 30 handpasses is for the birds.

I see your point and it’s a valid one but I take issue with “kicking aimlessly”.

Yet another enjoyable weekend of football.

But something something 37 handpasses in a row yada yada all defending etc.

Forcing a kickpass into a massed defence is the very opposite of kicking for a purpose.

Forcing players to kick when nobody is free is the very opposite of kicking for a purpose.

If you want the GAA to embrace the bugger factor and introduce a randomness into attacking play then say that, but launching a long ball and hoping the break falls your way is nothing to do with "purpose".

A lot of this weekends football was rubbish… let’s call a spade a spade.

I watched the Ros/ Kerry game on Tv. Dull as ditchwater…. You could hear the crowd talking.

Anyone who thinks this is a good product is not being honest, in my opinion.