March 8th - What’s your vote? Mod Note In Post #677

_Kaiser_ · 10-03-2024 05:17PM

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121875719#Comment_121875719

That's not necessarily a blocker/problem though. As it is, based on her performance and public interviews, she's either..

- hopelessly out of her depth (a bit like Catherine Martin) and unable to get a handle on her brief and do what's needed.

Or...

- genuinely thinks that the likes of Twitter trends, identity politics and culture war is a sound basis for policy making. She wouldn't be the only one of the current Government to think this though.

Or...

- easily led and managed by others (again a bit like how Martin is apparently wholly reliant on 3rd parties to relay information to/from her) which is why she comes across so badly in interviews. If it's not in the script she can't deal with it.

... None of the above are exactly inspiring, but it wouldn't stop the Party from pushing her as an identity candidate to the second group above anyway.

gym_imposter · 10-03-2024 05:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874556#Comment_121874556

I've said it before, the government parrots the agenda of RTE etc , not the other way around

10-03-2024 05:42PM

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121875582#Comment_121875582

Hopefully the folk of Meath will turf her in the next GE

gym_imposter · 10-03-2024 05:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121873717#Comment_121873717

And Bacik isn't even the most militantly woke TD in the party , that's o Riordan

tjhook · 10-03-2024 05:50PM

I wouldn't have thought there's a lot of difference between FF and FG these days, but some figures from the Indo give me pause for thought.

FG voters appear to have voted Yes to both referendums overall (53% in favour of the family referendum, 51% for the carer referendum).
FF voters appear to have voted overwhelmingly No to both (24% in favour of the family referendum, 29% for the carer referendum)

These figures may indicate the direction of their future policies if they're going to try to appeal to their supporters. I tend to vote for center parties, and would be against both these referendums and the "Hate Speech" legislation, so this definitely gives me something to think about for the next election.

tom23 · 10-03-2024 06:11PM

Voting NO for both

Can’t we that happening. FG would be signing their death cert as a party if they put her in the top seat for all the reason you have outlined.

tom23 · 10-03-2024 06:12PM

Voting NO for both

O’Riordain has to be the most woke politician in the Norhrern Hemisphere. **** me the man has no limit to what issue he will get enraged about.

KevMayo88 · 10-03-2024 06:20PM

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876094#Comment_121876094

Just don't tell him you liked 'To Kill a Mockingbird'.

I honestly think O’Riordain is mentally unwell with some of the angry leftist tirades he will go on.

nachouser · 10-03-2024 06:30PM

It's amazing in this day and age that Governments can be so out of touch with their electorate. They could build a site, offer a range of things people could possibly be concerned with / care about and you could login with your ppsn and tick your 5 boxes or whatever. Relatively painless but accurate information about what people do and don't want from their government. Or am I an idiot to think this would work:-)

HBC08 · 10-03-2024 07:23PM

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121871493#Comment_121871493

Whilst I agree with all your points the biggest issue is there's nobody to vote for.

You'd be hard pressed to find anybody in the country who thinks the current immigration situation is a good idea yet no mainstream party will even talk about it,its mental.

SF have shown themselves to be a less smart version of the current lot and have much the same policies it seems.

It's all a bit grim.

Hippodrome Song Owl · 10-03-2024 07:26PM

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121875988#Comment_121875988

Very interesting. Do you have a link to where this vote breakdown is coming from? I heard similar about SF voters earlier on the radio, but I didn't catch the source.

10-03-2024 07:32PM

The Government could easily have ran this with the elections in June, it was the obvious thing to do, if you were going to have referendums.

Instead they closed schools for a day for two referendums that they say as slam dunks. They surely never will envisaged losing either one, and would have expected to bask in the glow of victory.

Runmimg the referendums, which arguably weren’t needed, was a cynical piece of electioneering using tens of millions of public funds.

Its blown up in their faces though.

tjhook · 10-03-2024 07:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876426#Comment_121876426

It's here, but I think it's paywalled... But yes, SF supporters voted 12% and 22% in favour of the constitutional changes.I.e. a big "No" vote.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/referendums/exit-poll-reveals-anger-behind-no-vote-and-how-supporters-of-political-parties-voted-in-both-referendums/a961278452.html

Hippodrome Song Owl · 10-03-2024 07:53PM

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876480#Comment_121876480

Thank you.

I have to say I'm not at all surprised in the difference between FF and FG voters. For all the "two cheeks of the same arse" criticisms and reference to being divided only by Civil War politics, I have to say my experience is that the FF supporters I know are actually very different than the FG supporters - very different demographics altogether.

Furze99 · 10-03-2024 08:17PM

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876417#Comment_121876417

We'll see a good selection of Independents standing. Some will be true Independents and we'll have a good smattering of Independent FF, Independent FG etc who jump ship in order to distance themselves from the current cancerous consensus.

gym_imposter · 10-03-2024 09:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121875988#Comment_121875988

Those figures say more about how utterly removed Michael Martin is from the average FF voter,FF once prided themselves on party discipline in elections

gym_imposter · 10-03-2024 09:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876094#Comment_121876094

Between him and Justin trudeau ,probably o Riordan by a pronoun

jackboy · 10-03-2024 09:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876670#Comment_121876670

Independents can't run the country. Any elected will be paid off and controlled by the same parties and thats the last you will here from them till the next election.

kowloonkev · 11-03-2024 04:38AM

Voting NO for both

The important thing is that key figures lose their seats next time round to send a message. If FG ministers lose their seat to new blood of FG that's fine, just as long as a message is sent out that you can be turfed out of public office if you ignore the people.

It is absolutely crucial for this country that this current generation in power are made an example of.

lumphammer2 · 11-03-2024 06:56AM

I didn't vote at all .... did not feel it made much difference either way ...

Some people I noticed after talking with them voted to give a message to the current govt ... while it is true that this often happens I'd prefer to keep the referendum separate to the govt ....

I can see why this and the last govt .. the Varadkar govts if you like ... were/are unpopular ... the end of the last govt had the dubious distinction of introducing the most oppressive laws ever enacted in Ireland .... long lockdowns .... and the start of the current govt was more of same ... many lost their jobs and business and partners and friends due to these laws ... businesses closed, people lose jobs, people had to move back home to parents ... after that the housing and homeless crisis was ignored ...

Varadkar himself is not popular with many ... he lost his bottle with Covid and went from original plan to implement a South Korean approach to total lockdown ... and later backed down from standing up to NPHET hardliners .... he is seen almost universally as the man who imposed lockdown as he was the one who made that infamous speech on 27th March 2020 ... more recently Varadkar is seen as a rich boy out of touch with the housing crisis and he is seen by others as too close to NATO ... taking the obnoxious far right Trump copycats out of the equation there are many from the leftwing to normal right spectrums who have legit concerns about him ...

I feel people did not like and do not like govt siding with one side in a referendum ... the govt should be impartial and give the info not take one side over another ... it all smacks of forcing agendas .... people deliberately went the other way I feel to emphasise their dislike for this govt and for govt taking sides in a referendum ...

Genghis · 11-03-2024 07:50AM

Voting NO for both

I haven't been scrutinising it, but it seems like FG and the Greens, of the three coalition parties, are taking most of the hit on this. Am I wrong? Mícheál Martin is the exception, his poor performance on Prime Time during the week did nothing for the Yes side.

Interesting the posts above re the difference in FF and FG voters. I feel whereas FG is firmly in an identity crisis, on top of which it's experienced front bench are departing. FF has an opportunity to claim the large and expanding centre ground, particularly outside Dublin.

I think now is a good time for MM to go and let someone from the centre take over, someone who can move the party into the middle and make centre right politics a respectable choice again. There has to be a strategy in that for them, it's clear FG are in shock, and SF who had maybe been filling the vacuum are not really in that space.

There are two challenges: time, as in is there enough time before a GE to pivot (arguably not) and leader (I am not sure who could do it, maybe JO'C, maybe Barry Cowen).

I know people will say he was never a good leader, others will say FF should never be allowed grow again; the real politik is that MM managed a transitionary period for FF, but allowed FG too much rein in setting policy. He has done what he was appointed to do (ensure the party survived) but is not the leader for the next phase. There is still an opportunity in the centre and no one outside of independents there to capitalise.

twinytwo · 11-03-2024 09:43AM

Voting NO for both

I have to wonder about the state of both FF and FG - is there no one in the parties that can oust MM or LV? Obviously i know that was one of the reasons they did the hit job on Barry Cowen. But both are extremely weak leaders who have seemingly surrounded themselves with very weak ministers. McGrath seems to be the only one (at least in my opinion) that appears to be able to handle his brief.

Come next election if either MM or LV hold onto their seats it will only be because of the extra seat added to each constituency.

Genghis · 11-03-2024 10:14AM

Voting NO for both

I think McGrath, but equally Donoghue have done excellent jobs; not many after that (Mícheál Martin I might say as third, which indicates the poor calibre in cabinet at the moment).

Pascal will leave politics at the end of this term, shame I would have liked him as FGs leader. McGrath is very competent, but not sure he is seen as leader.

Martin is a paranoid leader. He sidelined anyone who might challenge him, like you say Cowen but also O'Callaghan.

dulpit · 11-03-2024 10:34AM

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878209#Comment_121878209

Say what you will about Micheál Martin, but he will get elected in Cork South Central with no issues assuming he runs. In 2011 at the height of Fianna Fáil's toxicity he topped the poll and pulled Michael McGrath in with him (was either the only or one of two constituencies where FF won 2 seats in that election).

Hawkeye123 · 11-03-2024 11:02AM

Voting NO for both

The video below is about the opinion polls before the referendum and how they got it so wrong.

One point the video does not bring up is the possibility that the opinion polls were wrong because someone or some group of people were trying to influence the outcome. After all, if you think the referendum will be carried, you are less likely to bother going out and voting against it. And, I suspect if such trickery were aplay, it wasn`t for the first time. The recent use of commissions to tell us how to vote is an obvious attempt to subvert democracy, especially when they spread misinformation as highlighted by Gript Media.

Here is that video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4CXjBoQ2Zs

tjhook · 11-03-2024 11:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878536#Comment_121878536

I'd assume incompetence rather than anything sinister.

It could also work the other way, if everybody thought it would pass anyway, then why bother going out to vote in favour? More likely the underdogs would put in the bigger effort.

twinytwo · 11-03-2024 11:34AM

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878423#Comment_121878423

I wouldn't be so sure - up until 2020 he has always gone through on the first count (if memory serves). The last election was the 6th count. Obviously a lot would depend on who else runs in the constituency etc but Id wager a bet that if he gets an out he will take it.

dulpit · 11-03-2024 12:05PM

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878675#Comment_121878675

He got nearly 20% of the vote in 2020. The number of counts isn't that important a factor, he was 2nd elected.

Markus Antonius · 11-03-2024 02:58PM

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878423#Comment_121878423

I will say something about Michael Martin, if you don't mind.

Micheal Martin is the single worst politician to ever set foot inside Leinster house.

Outside of his own constituency, the man is a highly unlikeable character. The only talent he has is saying a lot, without actually saying anything at all. He is crass, dishes out personal insults to his opposers. He is a weak debator. A weak orator. He tries to mimic Bertie Ahern with forced befuddlement and verbal stutter. He was front and center in the most damaging governments the country has ever seen. He got and continues to get way too much mileage for the smoking ban legislation. He is literally, only running off the fumes of this.

The country is sick and tired of him and Leo Varadkar. It is beyond a joke at this stage.

Red Silurian · 11-03-2024 03:18PM

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878790#Comment_121878790

Usually a party leader would get through on the first count and it's not unheard of to pull another up.

I recall the scenes in Mayo in GE'11 Enda Kenny and Michael Ring elected on the first count and another 2 FGers through shortly afterwards. Similarly Cork S-C in 2016 saw Micheal Martin and Michael McGrath get through on the first count. Their 2020 results were a major disappointment

March 8th - What’s your vote? **Mod Note In Post #677**

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March 8th - What’s your vote? Mod Note In Post #677