March 8th - What’s your vote? **Mod Note In Post #677**

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876094#Comment_121876094

Between him and Justin trudeau ,probably o Riordan by a pronoun

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876670#Comment_121876670

Independents can't run the country. Any elected will be paid off and controlled by the same parties and thats the last you will here from them till the next election.

kowloonkev

Voting NO for both

The important thing is that key figures lose their seats next time round to send a message. If FG ministers lose their seat to new blood of FG that's fine, just as long as a message is sent out that you can be turfed out of public office if you ignore the people.

It is absolutely crucial for this country that this current generation in power are made an example of.

lumphammer2

I didn't vote at all .... did not feel it made much difference either way ...

Some people I noticed after talking with them voted to give a message to the current govt ... while it is true that this often happens I'd prefer to keep the referendum separate to the govt ....

I can see why this and the last govt .. the Varadkar govts if you like ... were/are unpopular ... the end of the last govt had the dubious distinction of introducing the most oppressive laws ever enacted in Ireland .... long lockdowns .... and the start of the current govt was more of same ... many lost their jobs and business and partners and friends due to these laws ... businesses closed, people lose jobs, people had to move back home to parents ... after that the housing and homeless crisis was ignored ...

Varadkar himself is not popular with many ... he lost his bottle with Covid and went from original plan to implement a South Korean approach to total lockdown ... and later backed down from standing up to NPHET hardliners .... he is seen almost universally as the man who imposed lockdown as he was the one who made that infamous speech on 27th March 2020 ... more recently Varadkar is seen as a rich boy out of touch with the housing crisis and he is seen by others as too close to NATO ... taking the obnoxious far right Trump copycats out of the equation there are many from the leftwing to normal right spectrums who have legit concerns about him ...

I feel people did not like and do not like govt siding with one side in a referendum ... the govt should be impartial and give the info not take one side over another ... it all smacks of forcing agendas .... people deliberately went the other way I feel to emphasise their dislike for this govt and for govt taking sides in a referendum ...

Genghis

Voting NO for both

I haven't been scrutinising it, but it seems like FG and the Greens, of the three coalition parties, are taking most of the hit on this. Am I wrong? Mícheál Martin is the exception, his poor performance on Prime Time during the week did nothing for the Yes side.

Interesting the posts above re the difference in FF and FG voters. I feel whereas FG is firmly in an identity crisis, on top of which it's experienced front bench are departing. FF has an opportunity to claim the large and expanding centre ground, particularly outside Dublin.

I think now is a good time for MM to go and let someone from the centre take over, someone who can move the party into the middle and make centre right politics a respectable choice again. There has to be a strategy in that for them, it's clear FG are in shock, and SF who had maybe been filling the vacuum are not really in that space.

There are two challenges: time, as in is there enough time before a GE to pivot (arguably not) and leader (I am not sure who could do it, maybe JO'C, maybe Barry Cowen).

I know people will say he was never a good leader, others will say FF should never be allowed grow again; the real politik is that MM managed a transitionary period for FF, but allowed FG too much rein in setting policy. He has done what he was appointed to do (ensure the party survived) but is not the leader for the next phase. There is still an opportunity in the centre and no one outside of independents there to capitalise.

twinytwo

Voting NO for both

I have to wonder about the state of both FF and FG - is there no one in the parties that can oust MM or LV? Obviously i know that was one of the reasons they did the hit job on Barry Cowen. But both are extremely weak leaders who have seemingly surrounded themselves with very weak ministers. McGrath seems to be the only one (at least in my opinion) that appears to be able to handle his brief.

Come next election if either MM or LV hold onto their seats it will only be because of the extra seat added to each constituency.

Genghis

Voting NO for both

I think McGrath, but equally Donoghue have done excellent jobs; not many after that (Mícheál Martin I might say as third, which indicates the poor calibre in cabinet at the moment).

Pascal will leave politics at the end of this term, shame I would have liked him as FGs leader. McGrath is very competent, but not sure he is seen as leader.

Martin is a paranoid leader. He sidelined anyone who might challenge him, like you say Cowen but also O'Callaghan.

dulpit

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878209#Comment_121878209

Say what you will about Micheál Martin, but he will get elected in Cork South Central with no issues assuming he runs. In 2011 at the height of Fianna Fáil's toxicity he topped the poll and pulled Michael McGrath in with him (was either the only or one of two constituencies where FF won 2 seats in that election).

Hawkeye123

Voting NO for both

The video below is about the opinion polls before the referendum and how they got it so wrong.

One point the video does not bring up is the possibility that the opinion polls were wrong because someone or some group of people were trying to influence the outcome. After all, if you think the referendum will be carried, you are less likely to bother going out and voting against it. And, I suspect if such trickery were aplay, it wasn`t for the first time. The recent use of commissions to tell us how to vote is an obvious attempt to subvert democracy, especially when they spread misinformation as highlighted by Gript Media.

Here is that video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4CXjBoQ2Zs

tjhook

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878536#Comment_121878536

I'd assume incompetence rather than anything sinister.

It could also work the other way, if everybody thought it would pass anyway, then why bother going out to vote in favour? More likely the underdogs would put in the bigger effort.

twinytwo

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878423#Comment_121878423

I wouldn't be so sure - up until 2020 he has always gone through on the first count (if memory serves). The last election was the 6th count. Obviously a lot would depend on who else runs in the constituency etc but Id wager a bet that if he gets an out he will take it.

dulpit

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878675#Comment_121878675

He got nearly 20% of the vote in 2020. The number of counts isn't that important a factor, he was 2nd elected.

Markus Antonius

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878423#Comment_121878423

I will say something about Michael Martin, if you don't mind.

Micheal Martin is the single worst politician to ever set foot inside Leinster house.

Outside of his own constituency, the man is a highly unlikeable character. The only talent he has is saying a lot, without actually saying anything at all. He is crass, dishes out personal insults to his opposers. He is a weak debator. A weak orator. He tries to mimic Bertie Ahern with forced befuddlement and verbal stutter. He was front and center in the most damaging governments the country has ever seen. He got and continues to get way too much mileage for the smoking ban legislation. He is literally, only running off the fumes of this.

The country is sick and tired of him and Leo Varadkar. It is beyond a joke at this stage.

Red Silurian

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878790#Comment_121878790

Usually a party leader would get through on the first count and it's not unheard of to pull another up.

I recall the scenes in Mayo in GE'11 Enda Kenny and Michael Ring elected on the first count and another 2 FGers through shortly afterwards. Similarly Cork S-C in 2016 saw Micheal Martin and Michael McGrath get through on the first count. Their 2020 results were a major disappointment

yourdeadwright

Voting NO for both

Government are so out of touch with the normal every day people of our nation ,

Leo has to be the most disliked politician in the country since about 2019 , that a 5 year run

tom23

Voting NO for both

The country is sick and tired of FF/FG. We are now sick and tired of the cult that’s is the green party with their bulshit left liberal and green nonsense that just costs taxpayer every time they have a around the table chat with their NGO of the month.

And that bring us on to the opposition. Sinn Fein. **** me… morphing into Fianna Fáil as each week passes. Soc Dems, a party of Aodhan O’Riordains, raging at every thing that moves. Crying with pity and going to save the downtrodden and alienated of the world.

Menawhile cost of living and the usual trying to get by seems to mean little to them.

What i’d give to be a heartless bollox and own a D hotel.

dulpit

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121880453#Comment_121880453

I think a more appropriate comment is that you are sick of all of them. The specific parties you listed attracted 76% in the latest opinion poll from March 2nd.

Also, Aodhan O'Riordain is in Labour, not the Soc Dems...

tom23

Voting NO for both

i’m very well aware of where Aodhan, thanks very much labour / soc dems? what’s the difference? both irelevant, both enraged by all the ills of the world. everyone is far right if they don’t share their exact viewpoint. Their stance on immigration alone shouldn’t have them anywhere near office.

But yes Im sick to the back teeth of them all. I dont care what polls say 76% or 176% I dont care. We’ve just spent well over 23 million in a referendum that no one really wanted.

But yet i know of children with autism that don’t have a school place for september because there’s not this and there not that…

retalivity

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1767304846065988032

Well, thats the end of her. At least O'Dea kept his head down (i think) until today, this one was actively campaigning for something she didnt believe in. The only thing worse than being a liar and a hypocrite is the public catching you red-handed being a liar and a hypocrite.

buried

Voting NO for both

lol Best 23 million euros ever spent. The snakes are literally trying to eat each other, on full show. Hopefully this keeps up.

Peter Flynt

Voting NO for both

It's interesting to not that the same small cabal of people (inside their Official Ireland bubble) who tried to get mothers removed from the constitution are now going to use the whip system in Dáil Éireann to pass THEIR bill on what THEY define as hate speech.

These people are fascists and would have removed women from the constitution long ago if a referendum were not required.

KevMayo88

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881668#Comment_121881668

If anything, I think the referedum will see renewed interest in the government pushing on with the hate speech nonsense. They will want it in place before the GE to counter and stifle any kind of online discourse whereby candidates could be criticized, mocked and lampooned. You calling Leo an idiot online? Guilty!

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882562#Comment_121882562

Well the recent referendum campaign has shown they are incapable of winning the battle of ideas so silencing opposition is a logical step

HBC08

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881571#Comment_121881571

That's twice she's been caught red handed (remember her and timmy Dooley)

I can't believe I actually voted for this woman once upon a time.Swiftly kicked out as a TD by the people of Mayo last time round Michael Martin gave her a soft option in appointing her to the Seanad.Now she's looking for another handy number as an MEP.

I was hoping she wouldn't get it and this would be the end of her in politics, looking good for that outcome now.

Are there any decent young politicians out there at all?

dulpit

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882983#Comment_121882983

She's looking for a role where she doesn't need the vote of the general public by running to be an MEP where she needs to first be elected by the general public?

KevMayo88

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883127#Comment_121883127

If the vote had gone Yes/Yes, would Lisa Chambers have come out on national radio and claimed she still voted No/No because of her deep held concerns? I doubt it.

dulpit

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883736#Comment_121883736

That's not my point. I was just highlighting the illogical comment that she's looking for a role where she doesn't need the vote of the public but that role is specifically one they needs to be voted in.

I have no time for Lisa Chambers or her politics, but can we at least be logical with comments?

SuperBowserWorld

Voting NO for both

...

HBC08

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883127#Comment_121883127

Apologies, I had that wrong and amended post accordingly.

road_high

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876466#Comment_121876466

They genuinely thought the international women’s day angle was going to be some sort of celebration point for the electorate. You can scarcely begin to describe how out of touch they are - their whole thought process revolves around these kind of cheap photo opps