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So UFOs aren't a theory anymore - but we still don't know what they are

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Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Like with most conspiracy theories, this one is based just on what people half remember from the news, not actual statistics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Also again you're alluding to other explanations beyond aliens, but won't detail what they are.

    The phrase "other non human terrestrial or dimensional possibilities" is kind of Sci fi technobabble with little actual meaning. And such ideas are far more unlikely than aliens.

    Of course the no.1 most likely candidate is aliens. I have no idea of the range of other non-human possibilites or sources of non-human intelligent life.

    I do know this :

    *** stupid example inserted, some theatrical licence taken for comedic reasons, this statement added for the more anal **

    If Elvis jumps out of a flying saucer on the white house lawn and announces that future humans can time jump

    YOU dont get to say "SEE I told you it wasnt aliens"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But the point wasn't about the "range of possibilities." It was about the fact that you and other believers won't detail any other possibilities beyond sci fi technobabble. Most likely because such possibilities would sound very bad from a credibility standpoint. You got very upset when I suggested a valid possibility because it sounded silly.


    The other possibility that you don't want to consider, because it doesn't involve aliens is that there is a recovery program for drones and other aircraft from Russia and China etc. And that information and claims about this program gets conflated and confused with separate claims about UAPs.

    If this happens to come out, I highly suspect all of the people making claims about non human intelligences and inter dimensional beings etc will be claiming that they were still right all along.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    How is aliens the most likely explanation for something odd happening? Why not fairies, or God, or flying unicorns?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The claim is that it's aliens who have the ability to break known physics. Possibly several races of aliens from different planets observing different rules and with different levels of technology. And that they are potentially visiting Earth regularly, up to millions of times over the centuries.

    This is the most likely explanation apparently.


    Personally I feel that time traveling humans or denizens of the hollow Earth are statistically more likely and rely on less jumps in logic or appeals to magic technology. But believers won't find these as acceptable cause they sound ridiculous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Interesting theories, you should contact AARO .. website here : https://www.aaro.mil/

    You could save them millions maybe billions

    You might want to elaborate on the craft manufacture though, given the time of the year Santa's grotto might be plausable as the epicenter. It could tie up the crashing question also!

    Maybe go anonymous for the first submission though.. just sayin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    AARO's job is to try identify stuff that is unidentified. When these things finally get identified they turn out to be anything from weather phenomena, to aircraft, to foreign drones, to camera glitches, etc.

    Naturally some stuff does not get identified (typically due to low quality footage/photos or unexplained camera artifacts/glitches or electronic issues)

    Some people assume this remaining stuff is "aliens". Which is the same leap as assuming it's something else fictional, such as flying vampires.

    Post edited by Dohnjoe on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,546 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Thing is, the scientific explanations tend to be anything from weather events, chinese lanterns to the US government testing crafts or foreign governments testing technology. Unidentified doesn't equal aliens....



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Well I'm sure we can come up with vastly more stories throughout history regarding the three theories I mentioned than you can show us regarding aliens.


    Why are you claiming that aliens is the more likely explanation, when there is significantly more people who claim to have proof of a God?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Well theres always room for one more religion!

    Church of the latter day flying saucers, now complete with first prophet Robinph.

    I'd ease up on the abductions and cattle mutilations though, the peasants are being warned by whistleblowers.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    So do you have any basis for your claim of "the no1 most likely candidate is aliens" and what leads you to that conclusion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Its the whole Marvels thing. It put me right off multiverses.

    Would you use any salutation as a prophet ? Your Saucerliness or maybe Your Greyliness



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Since an actual response to this is not forthcoming, I think the question demonstrates the kind of reasoning behind the UFO believers.

    Aliens are the most likely explanation because people want to believe it's aliens.

    But they don't want to say it's aliens because that would make their claims sound less credible. The term "non human intelligences" sounds much more sciencey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,011 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    Another day, another Balloon...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd-LL0i_ZV8



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,506 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Just aliens using a retro cloaking device.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Stanton Friedman (American nuclear physicist  ) said you always had to underline the word SOME three times in the sentence below

    "SOME UFOs are intelligently controlled spacecraft"

    Sorry Stanton the forum software doesnt support three underlines.

    RIP.




  • Subscribers Posts: 42,868 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    yep, another independent non grifter who wasnt making money off gullibles





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,506 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    It doesn't matter if he was a nuclear physicist, he seen the same evidence for aliens as the rest of us: zero.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Unless of course you believe the conspiracy - that better evidence is being concealed.

    A cosmic Watergate as Stanton described it 20 years ago.

    "Some UFOs are intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft," Stanton Friedman told AOL News, calling the vast cover-up of their existence "the biggest story of the millennium."
    Employed for 14 years as a nuclear physicist for companies like General Electric, General Motors, Westinghouse and Aerojet General Nucleonics, he worked on highly classified programs involving nuclear aircraft, fission and fusion rockets.
    "After 53 years of investigation, I'm convinced we're dealing here with a cosmic Watergate," he told AOL News. "That means a few people within major governments have known since at least 1947 that some UFOs are alien spacecraft."
    


    Here he is interviewing an eye witness ( time 15:34 ) of a 1966 New Mexico crashed UFO and bringing wounded aliens to the hospital


    he even mentions the crash retrieval teams.

    I must look up if the lady involved wrote any books on the topic and subsequently became a squillionaire.

    Post edited by celtic_oz on


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  • Subscribers Posts: 42,868 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Yeah I'm sure that statement sold a few books for him.....

    ....him being a professional "ufologist" an all



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But again you're falling back to an argument from authority.

    You are propping this guy up as being more credible because he's a physicist. But in reality he's simply just repeating unsubstantiated reports from anonymous people who have no actual physical or verifiable evidence.

    We just have to believe him because a physicist can't be wrong.

    It's the oldest simplest marketing trick in the book.


    Also again you're providing unnecessary dictionary definitions for things that people are aware of. Very odd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Its been interesting watching John Michael Godier's (Event Horizon channel) decent into the UAP / UFO topic.

    He asks a serious question though about 45 minutes in.

    "If there is a presence of an Alien civilization here it is the worst possible calamity that the that human civilization has ever faced because the Fermi Paradox reduces immediately to the zoo hypothesis no matter what you do they are in control, my question is is why was this not taken more seriously before now."






  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Godier is a science fiction writer

    Kelleher is an immunologist who walked into a job investigating UFOs and then wrote a book called, wait for it, "Skinwalkers at the Pentagon"

    It's always the same. Have a credible qualification or once worked on any UAP/UFO program or study? There is a fun (and even lucrative) circuit providing "alien" innuendo.

    Actual evidence not required.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hang on.

    This clashes with your previous statement that the US government was capable of defeating the aliens cloaking device. If they are "in control" then than claim doesn't make any sense.

    It also runs into the many issues you've unresolved: that if the aliens wanted to remain unobserved observers, we wouldn't have any idea that they are there.


    Also strange how UFO proponents seem to be free to ascribe motivations to the aliens, but when anyone else does so we keep being told such a thing is impossible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Godier is a science fiction writer

    So was Carl Sagan, whats your point ?

    Kelleher is an immunologist

    And ? Strange that when you quote a nuclear physicist the retort is "It doesn't matter if he was a nuclear physicist"

    Cake or eat it lads. It really only matters whether people are intelligent or not, I would say that all three are.

    This clashes with your previous statement that the US government was capable of defeating the aliens cloaking device. If they are "in control" then than claim doesn't make any sense. It also runs into the many issues you've unresolved: that if the aliens wanted to remain unobserved observers, we wouldn't have any idea that they are there.

    Get some sleep King, this is what I said of the craft

    UAPs may not be from one source.

    We have no idea of the variation in source or type of craft, there could be multiple races/AI's or other.

    In that situation the craft could be different, the intentions could be different, the desire to hide from us could be different, whether they can cloak could be different.

    With regards to unreliablity I've repeateatedly said this is unknowable unless you know the frequency of visitation which no one does, moreover some craft may be akin to unmanned probes which are probably more disposable.

    But ALL of this is pure conjecture and it would therefore be impossible to say "they should all do this" or base any opinion on feature sets all of the craft should have in general, to do so would just be akin to wild guessing.

    Stop guessing things King, its just wild!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's always these red flags.

    Never far from "Skinkwalkers", connections to other woo merchants and the paranormal, sci-fi silliness.

    If I search e.g. Kelleher in Youtube, I know that's exactly what I'm going to find.

    If that's someone's bag, okay, I don't see any particular harm to it, but as long as they are aware of it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Carl Sagan was an astronomer. He wrote only one science fiction book among many non-fiction books promoting critical thinking.


    No it doesn't matter if someone is a nuclear physicist or if they are "smart" in your view. This doesn't mean they are immune to being wrong and it doesn't really add more weight to them repeating unsubstantiated and unverifiable claims. The claims remain unsupported.

    However it is a very common marketing tactic for people to promote such experts using their credentials as if they do add more weight to their claims.


    And yes that is what you claimed. This clashes with what you claimed the video said. Unless you're now dismissing the video you posted as wild guessing.


    Also again no need for the definitions. We are aware of what a physicist is. It's not really helping your point by spamming that link.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    And yes that is what you claimed. This clashes with what you claimed the video said. Unless you're now dismissing the video you posted as wild guessing.

    Where did I claim it ? Please quote me.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You just quoted when your claimed it yourself. Not sure what you're demanding here.


    On one hand you are saying that any speculation about the motivations of aliens is pointless. Then on the other hand, you present speculation of the motivation of aliens as interesting insight.

    The difference seems to be that if it's speculation in support of the idea of aliens, then it is acceptable. But if its speculation that doesn't support the idea of aliens, or pointing out how the positive speculation is contradictory and inconsistent, then it's not acceptable.

    This is a double standard. It's a bit ridiculous to invite speculation, then dismiss speculation you don't like.



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