So UFOs aren't a theory anymore - but we still don't know what they are

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497180#Comment_121497180

But Schumer isn't the one making the claims. It's Schumer repeating reports from unknowns. (Or reports of reports.)

He doesn't say he knows classified information. That's just another case of you putting in words that aren't actually said by the person or the article.

And Gruash is a bad investigator. That's been shown to be the case since he presents a false story to congress and promotes it elsewhere.

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494084#Comment_121494084

It didn’t happen, get over it 😂 You literally named every fault in the NOTION that man even got near the moon.

Please continue 😂

emo72

And Gruash is a bad investigator. That's been shown to be the case since he presents a false story to congress and promotes it elsewhere.

What? Nobody can take you seriously with that statement. If he's lieing arrest him and charge him for lieing. Do you know why he isn't arrested? Because he's not lieing.

Because they would love to destroy him. But they can't, because he hasn't put a foot wrong.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497344#Comment_121497344

But being a bad investigator doesn't mean that he's lying. It just means that he believes stuff that isn't true and didn't do any checking.

We've already seen he has done this by promoting the Italian UFO supposedly recovered in the 1930s with the help of the Vatican.

It's a false story, but Gruash apparently believes it's true.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497321#Comment_121497321

Let's just pick one point then. The massive rockets which were launched, and people were seen climbing inside of, and thousands of people saw take off, and multiple countries will have been able to track the progress of including USSR who would have jumped at any opportunity to point out a failure.

What really happened?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497344#Comment_121497344

If I tell you, as a professional, that I saw an alien spacecraft.

And you tell congress this story, are you lying? No.

Grusch has told a whole bunch of unverified stories from other people, which he seems to fully believe. None have any credible evidence (30 were later interviewed and found to have none)

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497321#Comment_121497321

Let's take it step by step:

Do you believe there are satellites?

Butson

Tucker Carlson was Grusch's best interview yet. To think he is part of some false flag operation is just ridiculous at this stage.

Is he mad? Hardly. Look who was sitting right beside him at the Congressional Hearings. Charles McCullough, his lawyer. Look at his background.

Has he been lied to and set up for some bizarre reason by others in the intelligence community? Why would they do this. He has stated himself he double checked every source.

Cheerful S

Recent events in Washington, D.C., have revealed the existence of a potential cover-up within the U.S. Congress. These allegations come amidst revelations that information regarding certain matters is being hidden from the American people by gatekeepers within the legislative body.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer recently acknowledged that there is credible information indicating that information related to Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) is being concealed from both the American people and Congress.

Gatekeeper politicians on the Republican side have blocked several recommendations that were proposed by Senator Chuck Schumer. Despite the setback in Schumer's recommendations, small progress has been made in other areas of UAP research. One such development is the establishment of a JFK-style UAP release record board, which will serve as a public forum for the disclosure and dissemination of UAP-related information records..Of course just like the JFK files stuff can still be blocked harms national security and international relationships.

The power plays employed to stop more disclosure are clear signs that there are individuals within the government actively working to undermine transparency. These tactics serve to conceal wrongdoing, misdirect public attention, and perpetuate secrecy.It becomes increasingly likely that more information will be released in the next year or so that will end this power play. With the number of whistleblowers coming forward reaching 40, it is evident that they are growing tired of all the secrecy.

https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/1735110259520217257

robinph

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer recently acknowledged that there is credible information indicating that information related to Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) is being concealed from both the American people and Congress.

The above statement does not mean "aliens". Merely that the US is not telling everyone about what they are monitoring from China/ Russia, or about what they are monitoring and haven't yet figured out whose weather balloon it was they were tracking.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498570#Comment_121498570

Yea. Tucker Carlson also just had Alex Jones on. He's not a good interviewer.

Gruash doesn't double check things however, as if he did, he wouldn't be promoting an obviously false story.

Also a bit strange claims here about autistic people being incapable of lying.

Even if that were so, it's been explained many times that Gruash could fully believe what he's claiming. But people are capable of fully believing things that are false.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498815#Comment_121498815

You clearly didn't listen to the video. The speaker with Schumer mentioned UAP technology and UAP bodies.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498968#Comment_121498968

Presumably in terms of they haven't identified if it's Chinese, Russian or weather balloon technology and if it's being operated by Chinese, Russians or a school science project gone wrong.

If that's not what they actually meant then you'll be able to point out where they stated it was extra terrestrial.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498697#Comment_121498697

Chuck has been around for a long time, and what he is doing is smart, legislation to increase transparency - and as such avoid the kind of silliness we've just seen (an intelligence officer reciting stories claiming aliens murdered humans, football field sized craft, etc)

"I say to my friend that Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena are of immense interest and curiosity to the American people.

But with that curiosity comes the risk for confusion, misinformation, and mistrust especially if the government isn’t prepared to be transparent.

The United States government has gathered a great deal of information about UAPs over many decades but has refused to share it with the American people. That is wrong and additionally breeds mistrust."

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498968#Comment_121498968

Yes he mentioned them, but listen to the context

"and a requirement as a transparency measure for the government to obtain any recovered UAP material or biological remains that may have been provided to private entities in the past and thereby hidden from Congress and the American people."

There's no evidence of "aliens" but if there were, this bill would increase transparency surrounding it. Again, it's clever, keeps everyone happy.

When nothing comes out in the short, medium and long term, it's highly likely "alien believers" will start some spiel about all this being part of a cover-up, conspiracy, etc. Calling it now.

Dohnjoe

As soon as you realise there is no proper evidence whatsoever of "aliens", but there's still a large desire by a large amount of people to believe in "aliens" (largely due to fiction/TV/movies/etc) then all this makes much more sense and becomes very predictable.

silliussoddius

One of the reasons the bill was struck down was some Republicans feared it would increase the power of eminent domain, not because of big defense contractors.

Giblet

Mods can we update the thread title to "So UFOs were never a theory, but they aren't aliens..."

celtic_oz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499980#Comment_121499980

"The federal government shall have eminent domain over any and all recovered technologies of unknown origin (TUO) and biological evidence of non-human intelligence (NHI) that may be controlled by private persons or entities in the interests of the public good. After the Review Board has made a formal determination concerning public disclosure or postponement, the President will have the sole ability to overturn or concur such determination"

The eminient domain was restricted as above so clearly ridiculous to maintain it was overreaching.

As soon as you realise there is no proper evidence whatsoever of "aliens", but there's still a large desire by a large amount of people to believe in "aliens" (largely due to fiction/TV/movies/etc) then all this makes much more sense and becomes very predictable.

The conspiracy calls out that UAP are exotic (non mundane with craft that are intelligently controlled) and could be aliens - there are other non human terrestrial or dimensional possibilities, also the government(s) have better evidence as to their true nature and are concealing said evidence.

Only the few boardsies here seem to KNOW it's NOT aliens and pour contempt on anyone with an open mind.

silliussoddius

At the end of the day this is not based on some insider secret knowledge, but stories that have been passed along the usual group of people. The aliens will always be just out of grasp, and therefore the conspiracy will continue.

celtic_oz

Timothy Cole Gallaudet[1] is an American oceanographer who is a retired Rear Admiral in the United States Navy. Gallaudet previously served as the Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Oceans and Atmosphere within the U.S. Department of Commerce. In this function, he fulfilled the role of Acting Under Secretary of Commerce for Oceans and Atmosphere and Acting Administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) until February 24, 2019.[2] He was the longest-tenured Acting Administrator of NOAA in the organization's history at the time he was replaced

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M01DWnEQeSI

3:13 The problem Tim is that a lot of the government is still in absolute denial I mean you talk as a fact about a crash retrieval program and we're talking here about retrieved nonhuman technology aren't we ?

Yes

and yet there are people in the government still saying they've seen no credible evidence of this phenomena what do you say of that ?

So what you have going on right now are again Legacy classified programs - special access programs and without Congressional Direction White House policy that's not going to change.

robinph

The conspiracy calls out that UAP are exotic (non mundane with craft that are intelligently controlled) and could be aliens - there are other non human terrestrial or dimensional possibilities, also the government(s) have better evidence as to their true nature and are concealing said evidence.

On one hand you have every single instance of a claimed alien sighting which turned out to be something dull, or faked. And based on that it's suggested that any new claim of aliens is more than likely also something dull or faked.

On the other hand you have people claiming that the faked and dull previous instances should be ignored because this time it's really real and the US government was hiding it all along, even the cases which weren't in the US, and/ or aliens for unknown reasons only visit/ crash in the US, and only in unpopulated areas where nobody has a smartphone handy at the time.

celtic_oz

As Giblet says "No-one denies UAPs are real."

On one hand you have every single instance of a claimed alien sighting which turned out to be something dull, or faked. And based on that it's suggested that any new claim of aliens is more than likely also something dull or faked.

Nothing exotic has ever proved to be found, therefore nothing exotic will ever be proved to be found.

Circular reasoning which discounts concealed evidence ( the actual conspiracy )

On the other hand you have people claiming that the faked and dull previous instances should be ignored because this time it's really real and the US government was hiding it all along, even the cases which weren't in the US, and/ or aliens for unknown reasons only visit/ crash in the US, and only in unpopulated areas where nobody has a smartphone handy at the time.

It has been widely reported about colusion with other governments ..and not just the daily mails article last week.

UAPs may have been visiting for centuries, smart phones have been around 20 years, do the math. Plenty of pictographic evidence. No 4K ones (in the public) of the bottom of a saucer with a stamp saying "made in Zeta Reticuli" though.

*** There is NO photo that you would believe no matter its clarity unless it was held aloft by legacy news with a banner "ET is here". **

Your argument that the conspiracy is not true, is based on the fact that it hasnt been proven yet. We know. Its being concealed.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121503649#Comment_121503649

You keep falling back to this misrepresentation.

No one is arguing they know it's not aliens.

People are pointing out that aliens/exotic explanations are not very likely and are saying that they aren't persuaded by the poor quality of evidence and arguments so far provided.

Also again you're alluding to other explanations beyond aliens, but won't detail what they are.

The phrase "other non human terrestrial or dimensional possibilities" is kind of Sci fi technobabble with little actual meaning. And such ideas are far more unlikely than aliens.

robinph

Nothing exotic has ever proved to be found, therefore nothing exotic will ever be proved to be found.

No.

Nothing exotic has ever been found, therefore if claiming something exotic has happened you need to show the evidence of something exotic having happened. Dreaming exotic things happening isn't evidence of them being real.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121504352#Comment_121504352

"Widely reported about collusion of governments" means that it is claimed to happen, but nothing is provided to support the claim.

Calling this "reports" is very generous. "Unsubstantiated claims by unknown people" is more accurate. And it's a very convenient excuse of a large issue with the conspiracy theory.

Smartphones have been around for 20 years. And in that time there's been many instances of large numbers of people capturing unlikely and unexpected events from many angles. Examples being the explosion in Beruit or the Asteroids over Russia or the various cool looking trails from Space X rockets during night launches.

There's been no instances of any UFO events with similar coverage that aren't just blurry lights in the sky.

This is an issue if you are arguing rhat UFOs are visiting in huge numbers and with regularity.

Also, the fake you are just brushing under the rug the thousands of false videos, misidentifications or hoaxes is very telling. People have good reason to be skeptical of UFO photos.

Giblet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121504352#Comment_121504352

Let me be clear, UAP means Unexplained Aerial Phenomenon in my meaning. They usually eventually become EAP...

A balloon from a college graduation was a UAP. I'm not filling the gaps with aliens here.

Every one I have seen has been explained.

Geese, Balloons, Engine Glare, Bokeh. UAP => EAP. Any remaining will most likely fall into the category of the benign, and a lot of the explained ones had surefire, hotshot pilots who know what they see when they see it, and it is for sure aliens, oh wait it's a duck.

robinph

... And it's also false to say that we won't belive anything exotic or fantastical being discovered. Every month or so there are announcements of progress being made in discoveries of potential for extra terrestrial life within our solar system, or potential for there previously being extra terrestrial life on the likes of Mars or moons of Jupiter etc.

Or there is advancement in the detection of gasses which might show evidence of atmosphere around distant planets.

The difference between these fantastical claims and those made by UFO believers is that the scientists have evidence which they present, and then look for other people to also examine their evidence and prove or disprove it, and then expand on what they have found.

UFO believers have no evidence of anything to back up their claims.

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497583#Comment_121497583

Never been, never been back. Still can’t land another man in 2023. More rockets explode than make orbit. I’ve heard all the doesn’t make economic sense arguments.

If Musk could do it, he would. He can’t.

Up there with WMD’s and unicorns. 😂😂

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121504832#Comment_121504832

Contrast how UFO people announce their news with how NASA and other legitimate agencies do.

Imagine if NASA announced their lastest discoveries about the possibility of life like the UFO media.

"We have reports from official sources that something has been confirmed on Mars. We're not going to say who those sources are, what was confirmed or any details about anything. We just have to keep waiting a little longer for the full story to come out."