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Irish White Privilege......Yeah

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  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭scottser


    Politicians generally are well insulated from the type of society they create for everyone else. This isn't really any different.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    They’re not, because they’re public representatives, so they take all the shìt that’s coming their way, precisely because they act as a target for it.

    This IS different because it has nothing to do with politicians, the stakeholders involved who contribute to the draft curriculum aren’t public representatives, they’re individuals and private organisations, lobby groups, committees, charities, members of Irish society that you won’t see in the national media, trying to create the type of society in which their interests are represented in policies such as those relating to education.

    A draft curriculum shouldn’t be taken as meaning that it actually has a hope of being implemented, because it’s not the final published document and could go through several more drafts before being implemented in the curriculum, let alone being delivered in Irish schools.

    Wouldn’t be the first time the NCCA were told their ideas need a bit more work -

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/churchs-backlash-blocks-change-in-religion-classes/35249798.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    This is worthy of an aul report I'd say. We've litterally been attacked by hamas




  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭sekiro


    The bit that makes me laugh is putting all this under "Allyship Skills".

    If I'm born a white cis straight Irish male then why on Earth would I want to be an ally to people who absolutely despise me and spend a decent amount of their time demonizing myself and people like me?

    I'm not going to be an "ally" to groups that aren't shy about the fact that they don't like me based on characteristics that I can't change. Oh but if I grovel to them and pledge myself to their worldview they'll go relatively easy on me?

    It's just a spoiled brat ideology. You need to help me and be an ally to me but also I hate everything about you. It's like we just want to teach young people that they need to aggressively demand things and if people won't do what you want and support you then just play the appropriate phobe or ism card to force the issue. Don't even think about being kind or seeking out mutual benefits or compromises. Actually just go around saying "be kind" a lot while also being a horrible person.

    It'll be very interesting to see how all this plays out over the next few decades.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    It's just a spoiled brat ideology.


    Your interpretation of it is anyway, all the while missing the point that you expect people you don’t like to grovel to you and pledge themselves to your world view in the hope you’ll go easy on them.

    The language is naff AF, but the idea is based on fairly solid principles that exist in many ideologies, and it applies to every child in the classroom. The examples used in the draft document are just that - they’re guidelines for the teacher in delivering the lessons.

    It’s played out for the last few millennia of civilisation, and humans are still around, society hasn’t been torn apart at the seams, it’s just evolved gradually, precisely because of the idea of human beings being taught to be considerate of other people who may not share their perspective or have the advantages in life that they have. Basic stuff like that thankfully adults generally speaking don’t have all much difficulty understanding, because they were introduced to the concept as children. Some adults who were spoiled as children will indeed struggle with the concept of being considerate of other people who don’t share their point of view or people who haven’t had the benefit of the advantages in life those people take for granted.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,986 ✭✭✭conorhal



    Our new High Priests and Bishops, same as the old it would seem. "Here's our new 'original sin' doctrine with which we will beat you into submission".

    That is because the new goal is not 'equality' but 'equity'. However, they can't diminish your rights and elevate those of others above yours without demonizing you first. The aim of the equity brigage has never been to unite but rather to divide everybody into their own interest groups. How else can they keep the pesants in line if they're not squabbling with each other over the scraps from their masters table?

    As the old long dead lefty in me would have said, 'five fingers make a fist'. They however want your metacarpals and phalanges spread across the graveyard of a dead society to ensure that no fist is ever raised against the elites.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,404 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    The worst thing is the sanctimonious nature that Norma Foley and people like her try to spread their message.

    It's clear that these people are all reading the same books, or have been on the same instructional course. It's like they've learned all these American inspired terms and the verbiage and they just can't wait to lecture everyone else on just how enlightened they've become. Irish people are all a bunch of pasty white racists, and that they are just the people to straighten us out.

    The problem is that what they're talking about is a bunch of nothing. It essentially distills down to "treat others the way you want to be treated". You are telling me what I am already doing, but also sounding like a complete wally while you're doing it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    It was Aodhán Ó Riordán who made the pasty male comment, and he and Norma wouldn’t see eye to eye on a whole lot.

    https://www.newstalk.com/news/children-doing-homework-has-no-value-aodhan-o-riordain-1476971



  • Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭nolivesmatter


    I don't think she was well able for him tbh. She tried to go off on a tangent but he refused to let her, and he exposed the fact that she is unwilling to make firm declaration on where she stands. She playing both sides until she knows which one is going to win.

    If it ever comes to it where this kind of nonsense gets taught to my kids I make no apologies for the fact that I will be un-brainwashing them when they come home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Yeah, individuals, private organisations, lobby groups committees, charities and member of Irish society ... what you mean are extremely well funded NGOs with an agenda that are side stepping the Irish democratic process by just inserting their views into the legislative and administrative process without bothering with the whole democracy bit that comes before it. There is roughly zero demand from Irish voters for these "allyship" initiatives.

    The greatest danger to Irish democracy comes from the NGOs who masquerade as charities or concerned citizens to legitimise their agenda. I saw another poster wonder why all these TDs seem to have the same talking points and sing from the same hymn sheet when it comes to these progressive politics - why it all seems to be copy and pasted from "US" politics. It's because these NGOs essentially groom them and train them. Irish people can vote for whoever they want - the TDs all attend the same NGO training. The whole aim is to have a system of politics without choices. Just new management. And Ireland is just one small sector of the wider issue.

    Irish democracy would be greatly served by a total ban on foreign funding of Irish NGOs, both direct and indirectly. But if the control of NGOs on domestic politics was to be seriously threatened in that way it would lead to the overthrow of the government that dared to do it. Look at Georgia, which back in March of this year meekly attempted to require NGO's that were more than 20% foreign funded to identify themselves. That's all - just highlight where the money was coming from. Pure pandemonium ensued, and the democratically elected Georgian government was forced to surrender to the power of the foreign funded NGOs in Georgia.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I get that different people are going to view the same set of circumstances differently and all, so from my point of view it looked like he was basically trying to put her on the spot and she was having none of it. Instead, rather than addressing him directly, she chose to explain the context of how the draft came about and the intent of it. She’s not playing both sides at all, she’s always been very firm in her approach to education as the Minister for Education, but she would have little to do with the NCCA formulation of policies, same as the previous Ministers for Education before her, same as Leo and Michael Martin steer well clear of addressing questions about the relationships and sex education curriculum.

    I don’t expect anyone expects you to apologise for being your children’s primary educator tbh, it’s recognised in the Irish Constitution as both your right and your responsibility under Article 42. The Irish Constitution is also the stumbling block which prevents Aodhán and Co from getting anywhere with the proposed ‘objective’ sex education bill -

    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/0418/955523-sex-education/

    Like I mentioned previously - this is just something Gript have latched onto this week (I know, it’s been in the works a while), but the point is the likes of Scallan aren’t even at the races when it comes to this stuff, Gript are just hoping to make something out of nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    She got caught trying to spoof her way out of a simple question and failed miserably.

    I'm sure she will be quick enough to cry hate speech now



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    I believe journalists get a carve out from hate speech legislation to allow them to continue to practise hate speech, conspiracy theories and disinformation against anyone who is "White" or "Irish" or "Male". Apparently the planned hate speech legislation is totally benign and fine, but journalists cant be expected to report the news in a fair and balanced way under it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I was going to ask you does Norma Foley strike you as the sort of individual who would cry hate speech, really? But then I figured since you said it she probably does 🤔

    She wasn’t spoofing at all, ‘tis Scallan is the spoofer trying to pass himself off as a credible journalist imagining that in 25 years as a teacher, Norma won’t have dealt with the likes of him before 🙄

    Again, ‘tis her counterpart in opposition made the pasty male comment, not Norma, and again she would have nothing to do with the draft policies of the NCCA. Scallan was simply out of his depth asking a stupid question that by all rights deserved a stupid answer, but Foley chose to turn it to her advantage instead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Yes she does,

    She been caught out again ,

    Why make up a story to try explain it away when you can't explain it away



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Explain what away? There’s nothing to explain away, just our different interpretation of events is all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad



    Is she saying that white people are in a "stronger position" than black people and that they "aren't in a position to help themselves"? Headbangers



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    She's someone who's watched too many tweets from the US ,

    White male privilege, sure they same two loons can't even tell us what a woman is and yet they are trying to tell us about white male privilege



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭eggy81




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,840 ✭✭✭Cordell




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭Jack Daw



    This kind of bullshit really would lead an awful lot of people to have even less respect for politicians than they already have.I get the feeling that contempt for politicians in general is at an all time high because so many of them seem completely disconnected from what the average person cares about.

    Sad thing is it seems like the Political class all seem to think like this and it doesn't appear to matter which party you vote for the woke mind virus comes as part of it which really is a bad sign for democracy in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    dont do american politics, not even once, the amount of people larping as if they are yanks is really weird, I find it especially amusing when a party like SF (we ourselves) licks all its views off elite British and old wasp American colleges.

    Post edited by silverharp on

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,512 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,512 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Looks like this is one of those 'lets all re-inforce all our own narrow minded views' threads that are so popular on this website; and particular this forum.

    Social and fun my hole.

    Lads - ye head on over to Marahastra or Niger or Benguela, and explain to the 60 year old woman there who cracks rocks on the side of the road for a living, for less in a day than you spend on a pint of Guinness - and explain to her how you dont actually have any privileges. What a shower of mammies boys.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I definitely feel privileged to have been born in Ireland, with all the opportunities it gave me growing up. When you look at the state of the world and the desperate situations so many are in, I really count myself lucky and I appreciate it more and more as I get older. I could have been born in Palestine or Syria, so for me being born in modern Ireland is like winning the lottery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭bloopy


    Gosh.

    It must be wonderful to be so much more high minded and intelligent than the rest of the plebs that grace your presence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    The point she is attempting to make is so reductive, essentially every person in the world could argue some other group has some form of privilege.

    The reason this country has a degree of privilege is because previous generations worked hard to make the country a better place to live, people should be thankful this has happened but they shouldn't feel guilt for it.

    We don't have unearned privilege for simply being white (like Councillor Colette Flynn stated).We have earned privilege because previous generations worked to make this country a better place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    It sure is, but the reason it;s like winning the lottery is because people worked hard to make this country a better place because we rid ourselves of the Catholic church and excessive corruption that exist all across the world.

    This country didn't become a good place to live purely by accident.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    to be fair there are plenty of advantages to being white i've noticed when abroad in certain countries, compared to how others are treated.



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