Irish White Privilege......Yeah

Geuze

The traveller life expectancy is shorter, due to the traveller choices.

If I live in poor conditions, and smoke or drink too much, and eat bad food, and engage in feuds and crime, then it's no surprise to anybody that my life expectancy will be less.

tesla_newbie

the belief that grim traveller outcomes ( in various ways ) is the fault of societal prejudice is a progressive article of faith, to question this received wisdom would be to question woke orthodoxy

same with the statistics re_ African Americans and imprisonment, “ all the fault of system prejudice “

heresy to think any other way

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121030658#Comment_121030658

Who’s blaming society for the outcomes of their own choices though?

I’m sure you don’t need your friendly EWO to tell you, to know yourself that traveller children have no choice whatsoever in terms of their education or lack thereof, leading to many of them becoming adults with poor literacy rates, and for those who managed to stick it out in education which doesn’t cater to their needs, they face prejudice and discrimination in further education, housing and employment.

The example of a traveller being the first in her group, or wider family to do the LC and continue on to further education should tell its own story - she has been able to achieve it with the support of people like your friendly EWO, same as Eileen Flynn who is now a Senator - she was the Taoiseach’s nominee, working tirelessly within her own community and with people like your friendly EWO in order to break down the barriers which limit traveller children’s opportunities and outcomes in later life.

Their shorter life expectancy in any case isn’t due to their lifestyle, it’s due to the lack of access to healthcare, which people who aren’t travellers tend to take for granted because it’s just that much easier to access healthcare when one is not a traveller!

That’s not blaming society, it’s pointing to the fact that there are circumstances in which being a traveller means they do not have the same supports and opportunities as people who aren’t travellers, and there’s no good reason they’re deprived of equal access because the same lifestyle choices you’re pointing to among travellers exist within the same society among people who aren’t travellers - we still live longer and have better outcomes than travellers, due to social circumstances which travellers have no control over whatsoever.

I don’t care much for the concept of ‘privilege’ or the framework in which it’s presented, but Jesus basic awareness of the needs of other people isn’t some foreign concept that shouldn’t be part of our education system.

PaoloGotti

“Irish white privilege” is a non-debate. It’s so fcuking obvious to a half wit that such a thing doesn’t exist.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031008#Comment_121031008

I’m not going to comment on whether or not anyone’s a half-wit, but the context is we’re talking about educating children here, and the examples given such as being white, or Irish, or male, are used in the material to demonstrate examples of the concept:

"Allyship skills: refers to the actions, behaviours, and practices used to support, advocate and collaborate with others, in support of justice and equity. Allyship involves recognising and using one’s privileged status (for example as white or male or Irish person) to support individuals from minority identity groups."

Are there circumstances where not being white, or Irish or male are a barrier to being treated as an equal? There most certainly are, and that’s the whole point of the lesson, is to encourage children to think about the needs of others. If children can understand it, there’s no reason an adult shouldn’t be able to get their heads around the concept.

nullzero

Surely we can educate children to be empathetic without using their skin colour as a motivator.

Thinking about it logically telling white children they have to think about other peoples needs implies that non white children that the requirement to be empathetic doesn't apply to the in the same way.

All this is based in the internalised racism of activists. The rest of us can just get along with people regardless.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031008#Comment_121031008

Problem is this country is full of half wits...an amount of them already have been convinced they are oppressed...turns out they were privileged all along, no wonder so many of them don't up from down.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031175#Comment_121031175

There’s no using anyone’s skin colour as a motivator though? They’re just examples to demonstrate the concept, they’re for helping the teacher to understand the concept and deliver it to the children in the classroom in a way that they can relate to.

It doesn’t imply anything only what you’re inferring from it, that it’s telling children anything because they’re white, or telling other children anything because they aren’t. It’s not telling children anything other than simply being aware of the needs of others. Fairly simple logic in any case. It’s why they also used example characteristics like sex and nationality - it doesn’t follow from that they’re suggesting anyone needs to be empathic towards French prostitutes for example, or that French prostitutes don’t have to think of the children! 😂

The whole point of the exercise is teaching children how to get along with people, so that they don’t become like some adults who see internalised racism or whatever else in what is a fairly easy to grasp concept.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031228#Comment_121031228

Except there's other, better ways to teach kids to be nice to people.

This is motivated by a particular ideology who's motivation is to create division not combat it.

That should be self evident unless of course it's being observed by somebody who is attempting to be contrary for the sake of being contrary.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013897#Comment_121013897

Yes agree .

Also the fact that the op misrepresents what is actually in the suggested curriculum in the first place , taking an example and making a whole thread about the outrage of the suggestion of it .

Non event that hasn't even happened ... generating 12 pages of outrage and us against them :/

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031353#Comment_121031353

That’s a ridiculous assertion given it was the OP who started the thread having taken offence where it’s clear none is intended!

Sure, there’s DIFFERENT ways to achieve the same goal, it’s not even about teaching children to be nice to people, it’s about teaching children to be aware of the needs of others. It’s a small part of a much broader philosophy, no different than what we, or, well, I was taught anyway through the ideology and philosophy of Catholic Education.

This is a philosophy or ideology which doesn’t use religion, to impart the essence of the exact same concepts as are taught and encouraged and inculcated and indoctrinated in 90% of Irish schools already, and have been taught for decades!

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031405#Comment_121031405

Lets indulge the assumption of the OP then.

Do you believe white Irish people are inherently privileged?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031467#Comment_121031467

That’s not what is suggested by the concept though. The characteristic of being Irish was being used as an example of demonstrating how the characteristic of nationality can cause difficulties for people who are NOT Irish.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031494#Comment_121031494

So you're refusing to answer the question?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031510#Comment_121031510

It’s not that I’m refusing to answer your question, your question has nothing to do with the concept. The whole point of it is that the concept is relative - NOT being Irish can be difficult for people who aren’t Irish. Because I’m Irish, I don’t even think about being Irish. I do however acknowledge the fact that for other people who aren’t Irish, they can face difficulties which I don’t, because I’m Irish.

I just wouldn’t use the term ‘privilege’ to describe that phenomenon, because privilege implies something that is earned - I haven’t earned being Irish, just like I haven’t earned being white or being a man. It doesn’t mean I’m incapable of acknowledging that other people will have difficulties where I don’t, and it’s important to be aware of that fact and to assist in reducing those barriers which cause the difficulties.

The most basic example I can give you is that the IT guy in the office decided to place all the monitors on the right of our desks. This presented a difficulty for me which he couldn’t possibly have been aware of - I have no vision in my right eye, so I couldn’t see the monitor where it was placed. Simple solution - place the monitor on the left side of my desk, problem solved, no big deal.

That’s all is meant by the concept, rather than making out it’s any more than it actually is.

gameoverdude

It's not even a basic example. IT guy doesn't make the decision.

Simple solution is to move the monitor yourself.

Ridiculous example.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031599#Comment_121031599

IT guy makes the decision when he’s the guy that bolts the monitor to the desk!

Of course you missed the point though - he put all the monitors on the right of all the desks by default, which would’ve been fine for me too if I wasn’t blind in my right eye. It’s just easier for me if the monitor is on the left.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031578#Comment_121031578

So would you be of the opinion that the posters who early in in this thread asserted that they felt privileged due to their being white and Irish were likely assigning their feelings of privilege incorrectly? For example I would contend that their privilege stems from their being from affluent backgrounds rather than their skin tone or nationality.

I understand that you're arguing the validity of the OP's proposal but the scope of the discussion ended up extending beyond that hat was cited by the OP.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031666#Comment_121031666

No, tbh, I don’t have any opinion of their opinions either way. Like I said - I don’t care for the concept of ‘privilege’. I understand it, I understand it’s aims and it’s purpose, but I don’t care for it is all. That’s why I’m indifferent to what way they feel privileged by being Irish and what not, it’s obvious that the intent of what they mean is that they feel privileged relative to others who are NOT Irish, who experience difficulties in Irish society because of not being Irish.

I understand what you mean too though, but I’d suggest it was more the product of an education rather than affluence. In that context, education is the characteristic to be aware of relative to others who have not had the benefit of education, and to reduce the barriers which prevent them from having equal access to education that those posters have benefited from.

Whether or not they’re affluent or haven’t a pot to piss in, I have no idea.

PaoloGotti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031067#Comment_121031067

I hate the idea because the next logical step is that a white Irish male should feel guilty and attempt to disempower themselves.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031635#Comment_121031635

Who bolts monitors to the desk? That makes no sense!

Sorry to hear of your sight in one eye. I do mean that.

Still has nothing to do with this thread.

I'm a middle aged, white Irish male. Working class (hate that term) background. You can count the amount of **** without fingers I give about complaining about people who don't choose to better themselves and complain or are privileged people who don't have a worry and chat about their activism over an expensive bottle wine.

It's parenting full stop. Teachers aren't parents. Deis schools have resources I could only dream about. I'm sending my youngest to a school that's cost me a fortune to get that level of facilities.

I didn't get a boost up in my life because I'm a white Irish male.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031578#Comment_121031578

I don't agree that privilege is earned... it is awarded , inherited, or granted as well as earned . Otherwise agree with your posts.

Your problem with vision is a loss of ability.

There are many able bodied people in the workplace who take this privilege for granted , and while nobody should be made feel guilty, that would be ridiculous , just being aware that not everybody shares that privilege would make life easier for those with less able bodied workers . The IT guy for example could ask where on the desk you want your monitor placed ( and hopefully not offer to place it somewhere out of the sun ;) )

This is just an example of how these lessons could be applied without everybody getting their ..knickers/ boxers , in a twist .

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031744#Comment_121031744

Not at all, the next logical step is to develop processes which reduce the barriers which other people may experience which aren’t an issue for you, and by that same token other people who are equally exposed to the concept will develop processes which reduce the barriers you may experience due to barriers which are issues for you!

Reciprocity if you like, rather than enabling people playing the victim.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031746#Comment_121031746

It’s true that teachers aren’t parents, it’s also true that parents send their children to schools to be educated by teachers acting in loco parentis - in place of the parents.

DEIS schools have resources that you could only dream about, but those resources don’t belong to the children who attend those schools who need the extra resources in order to be educated to the same level as your children that you’re paying a fortune for!

You didn’t get a boost up because you’re a white Irish male, and neither did anyone else solely on account of being a white, Irish or male. The school is getting the boost there, in order to provide education to children who attend the school.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031811#Comment_121031811

Never said I went to a deis school.

Please explain your overall point. I'm curious. So disadvantage areas get more money without characterisations of skin colour, nationality or sex? I'd hope so.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031852#Comment_121031852

I didn’t say you went to a DEIS school either? 😳

Yes, disadvantaged areas get more resources because they are disadvantaged, with the idea being that the children attending the school have the same opportunities in education as every other child.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031910#Comment_121031910

Nope. Education starts at home not with a new AstroTurf pitch. It's optics and a money grab.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121030776#Comment_121030776

“ lack of access to healthcare “

have you ever been to A + E ?, it’s always full of travellers ? , travellers visit health care facilities for sport as it costs them not a red cent and they have plenty of time on their hands

you’re post is absolute nonsense

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031945#Comment_121031945

I agree with you that education starts in the home, but that has nothing to do with the a school receiving funds to construct an astroturf pitch. Optics would be receiving funding for a digital whiteboard at a cost of about €8k for one that’s all bells and whistles, now that’s a total cash grab! 😂

Would I wish to deprive them of it though? Much as I think it’s overkill, I’m just not that petty really, it’s a small thing in the grand scheme of things. Same with the astroturf pitch - I’d imagine it could be justified in terms of providing the children with opportunities for physical education.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031981#Comment_121031981

You're calling me petty?