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World cup 2027. Were do Ireland go?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,566 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I'm seeing opinion that Scottish and Welsh Rugby are both on the verge of a lower standard as they don't have much quality coming true. Ireland seems to be in a bit of a better place right now in that regard at least.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Just pick the best side for the 2024 6Ns, we've 5 more tests in 2024, 2 against SA in July and 3 next November where the team can be rotated.

    Injuries, form and retirements will mean some form of change for the 6Ns anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Has there been any word on what tests are lined up for November actually?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Nothing yet and nothing likely until after world cup at least



  • Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭conquestscarer


    I know hes very young and probably shouldn't say this but Hugo McLaughlin was the best player in the senior cup at fullback the last 2 years IMO. If he can continue to develop I think he has a shout of making it by 2027. Obviously a mile away yet but has to be considered when he was miles better than lads a year older than him in 5th year.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭conquestscarer


    I definitely agree with this he is better then a lot of front liners IMO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭crusd


    All our 12's are 30 and older, and the youngest of those 3 has a concerning injury profile for example. Dave Kilcoyne could probably do a job off the bench in the 6 nations but is he enough ahead of the players who will be around in 4 years time. Given he already lost his Munster starting place to Loughman last season, no. Murray's form has returned a bit, but also, 2 30 something 9's in 2024? Where there is a call to be made, it should favour development for the next 18 months



  • Administrators Posts: 53,556 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The 2024 6N is going to be the same team really, with the obvious omission of Sexton. As far as I remember, it's only Sexton and Earls who are entering immediate retirement.

    We have a number of players whose contracts are up at the end of this season, they will all still be selected unless they change their minds and decide to retire early.

    The 2025 6 Nations team will be influenced, IMO, by the 2025 Lions tour. That will influence how many of our aging players stick around for the 24/25 season. There's a decent chance Farrell is the Lions coach for that tour, and getting on the Lions tour results in a good payday for players, if they think they have a chance they might decide to stick around.

    Even longer term, in terms of the next 4 years, I think Ireland are losing a lot of key men. Sexton, POM, Murray, Aki are definitely not at the next RWC. I think Lowe is unlikely, JGP 50/50. We'll have a lot of players in their mid-30s. Furlong is not playing like a player who looks like they can play another 4 years, and Bealham will definitely be retired.

    Add onto this that we can no longer use project players to fill in gaps in our team. This will impact other teams more than us (Scotland), but it will affect us more than France, NZ and SA.

    The 2024 6N is going to be between us and France. Beyond that who knows, it'll depend how quickly certain players retire and whether or not their replacements are the same standard. It'll depend on injuries, and lads being able to maximise their careers.

    I think by the time the next RWC comes round, Ireland will not be in as strong position as they were going into this RWC, this one had the feeling of the stars aligning in terms of our squad, we amazingly managed to keep a 38 year old Sexton fit and the rest of the team had the perfect blend of experience. I think the 17 game winning streak is something we'll be waiting a very, very long time to replicate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,375 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I take a different view. I think we'll do very well. There's so many lads on the horizon it's ridiculous.

    I doubt there's going to be much change for the 6nations. Maybe 1 o2 coming into the 23. But we will be a tough side to beat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭onlyrocknroll


    I don't think that we have to "go" anywhere. This is not like previous world cups where we crashed out in humbling circumstances, exposing deep underlying problems. We were simply beaten narrowly by another one of the shortlisted favourites by one score. Horrible but no soul searching needed. Sexton moving on is likewise not a calamity The future looks exciting with Crowley at to be challenged by Sam Prendagast shortly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,616 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    agree, for Dorris to have his worst game in green, and Van der Flier loss of form , you are going to struggle against any all Black team , especially one with Kane and Savea at ther best. Thats where the game was lost for me.

    if ther was one player that should have been rested in the pool games it was van der Flier , he looked cooked, was ther a decent alternative, how Dan Leavy has been missed - anyway



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    But what is our best side for the 2024 6N? I don't think we should automatically assume that it is the team from Saturday minus Sexton.

    For me, there are big question marks over if Furlong and POM are still the best in there positions. I don't think we'd lose anything from playing Bealham and Prendergast/Baird, we'd almost certainly gain in the medium term if not immediately. Doris v Conan is 50/50 right now.

    Maybe we need the team from last Saturday for the trip to Paris but it would be a waste sending all the same lads out the following week when Italy come to Dublin. We should be looking at Casey then for sure, ideally another LH too. JoeMc could overtake Beirne and Henderson in the next 12 months and needs competitive starts. We'd also beat Scotland and Wales at home with these lads plus the core of the team from Saturday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    We have to continue to evolve and change. We've lost Sexton. We're about a year off losing POM and Aki. The game plan will have to change with those three missing.

    I'd imagine we're going to see 4 or 5 lads brought to SA for exposure, if not any significant game time similar to how Furlong and Bealham were blooded on the 2016 tour (and a few others who didn't work out ultimately).

    We're also going to have to go away and look at our set piece. It was found wanting significantly in the two crunch games where we really struggled in both line out and scrum. Whilst there was general confidence in sorting it out and we did manage to resolve issues during games, it was a huge problem and likely cost us a semi final spot given the damage it did in the opening 30 minutes of Saturday.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there was a coaching reshuffle similar to two years ago or a new coach brought in to supplement proceedings. I think it's important that they draw a line under this and very clearly create their new era. Meeting up in December/January with the same voices/message minus the biggest on field voice, will just lengthen the shadow cast over the last week.

    Come the 6N, POC will be the shortest serving coach there at 3 years. There isn't really any other coaching team with the combined length of service as the Irish team given Easterby will have a decade next year and Farrell is there 8 years next year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Killer, Healy, POM, Murray and Aki should all be moved aside for the 6N. They won't be, but they should be. Everyone else will be looking towards 2027 and we'll be going hell for leather to win a 6N and some "test matches".

    I'd give Coombes a run in the 8 jersey. Maybe he's good enough, maybe he isn't, but I'd give him a shot. Doris is probably the most overrated backrower in World Rugby.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I had the exact same thought with regards Doris. I think he was the biggest disappointment in our RWC overall, particularly in light of how amazingly well he started 2023. His form at the start of the 6 Nations was incredible.

    Similar to you, at every setback in the game, I always felt we had a chance to get back into it, right up until that knock-on. When you consider the effort we put into those 38 phases at the end of the game, if that had come from Doris gathering at half-way rather than in our own half, it might have been the difference...



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭hahashake


    Cane put a few big hits on Doris, no doubt they specifically targeted him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,375 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Maybe Conan is a better option than Doris. Coombes is behind Prendergast. Coombes isn't the answer. Not fast enough or athletic enough, imo.

    I hope they start looking at a new 12. Henshaw and Aki have too many miles. Henshaw is injured too frequently. McCloskey is too old also.

    There's lads coming through. I don't think we'll suffer a drop in form. At least not a big drop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Haven't heard.

    I'll guess NZ, Argentina, Fiji (or other Tier 2 side)...only because we played Australia and SA in 2022...



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭bilston




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭macslash


    Anyone able to copy and paste the RO'C piece in the Independent on the possible team for 2027. Behind a paywall and my usual way around it isn't working this time. Thanks



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    You really think the likes of NZ and SA are going to dispense with anyone they think won't make 2027 straight after this World Cup ends? I don't think so.

    It's probably between Aki and Jordie Barrett for best 12 in the world right now, I'd say; some others might say Danty, but I dunno...

    There's a 6N game away to this formidable French team and you advocate just not picking a world class player? You can bring Jamie Osborne (who I view as the most likely long term 12) into the set up without dumping Aki.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    There's this: https://archive.ph/gfxuS

    ...but I think the graphic showing his suggested team doesn't make it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,959 ✭✭✭OldRio


    I find the idea that Ireland immediately dump one of the players of the tournament odd as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭macslash




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    In a situation like scrum half and loosehead, where two of our first 3 are 30+ and will be very borderline by the next WC, I think the way forward is to pick the best of the two for this year and replace the other with a prospect.

    So for the 6N our scrum halves would be something like Casey, Doak and one of Murray or JGP (probably JGP).

    For Loosehead, it's probably Porter, Loughman and Healy/Kilcoyne (tougher call with the age difference).


    The difference being, I'd be giving as much of the bench minutes to the prospect as I could justify. Then hopefully the prospect grows into a capable replacement over the next two years, and another prospect can fight their way into contention.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,375 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    As good as this side has been, time doesn't stand still. I would hope for at least 2, maybe 3 new lads given minutes in the 6nations. By all means, stick to the tried and trusted but, for the home matches a couple of new additions would be beneficial. Not just against Italy. We should have enough to beat Wales st home with 1 or 2 changes.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I would remind everyone that our succession planning for the 10 jersey has been quiet methodical and well planned over the last 6 years with significant investment of playing time in alternatives and look where that left us. You can't magic players out of thin air and you can't control what happens to them when they get their chance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,359 ✭✭✭Augme



    Outside of Italy, when and who was the last OH to start in a 6 nations game outside of Sexton? There's lot of phrases that we can use to describe succession planning for the 10 jersey, methodical and well planned isn't one I'd use.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Joey Carbery. Before him Paddy Jackson (actually Billy Burns, but let's ignore that one).

    Absolutely huge amounts of gametime were invested in both.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭TRC10


    No other out half over the last 4 years has even come close to putting their hand up to start a 6N game.



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