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Disability Payments Review

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  • 20-09-2023 1:46pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Just for those on Disability Allowance or Invalidity Pension. The Minister looking to over haul the system, essentially introduce a 3 Tier Level of Disability. It's Shocking & Outrageous.

    Article in the Irish Times today


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




«1345

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    its subscription only Dempo1 will keep my eyes peeled to see who else picks up the story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Someone sent me screenshots, I don’t know Dempo1. I doubt I’d only qualify for the lower tier but I only see positives in it nonetheless. No one will be any worse off in any case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    The crux of what's being proposed is a 3 tier level of Disability, which I find alarming in itself. Some folks may have a small level of Disability but a number of Medical issues, others obviously severe Disability. 3 Tiered payments also.

    Just on my own experience of the application process which involved over 50 pages to include the application form it would seem to me that certainly in recent times you won't get DA without a severe illness or Diagnosis, plus the support of your GP.

    My fear is this is a slippery road & these proposals include Invalidity Pension.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,694 ✭✭✭SteM




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    I’d be interested to know if you get a stamp for the new proposed scheme or only on certain tiers or what.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,165 ✭✭✭hayrabit


    I'm mentalasanything !

    i demand to be placed in top tier, ie most coin 😊

    #asknotwhatyoucandoforyourcountrybutaskhowmuchsocialwelfareyacangetfreegratisoffthestate

    :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,165 ✭✭✭hayrabit


    ^^^

    thread deserved a bump, and me had nowt salient to submit 😴



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    🙄.



  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭doc22


    My guess is this will be used to cut the increasing disability claims(that somewhat goes with the increasing population and aging demo) and like the UK unless your level 3 you will pushed to workforce. Means testing is a question too for joint scheme as Invalidity Pension is paid for life(regardless of means) while DA is means tested.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,918 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Aren't they just following other countries in EU in categorising disability levels?

    People in level 1 payments of €260pw, level 2 to €240pw, level 3 €220pw. The Department believes up to half of the 225,000 in receipt of disability payments would be in level 3 and would like to work but are precluded from seeking employment as they could lose their payment.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Some of us are working in the present system. I was going to say ‘Plenty’ of us but that might not be accurate. It took me years to find suitable employment with an understanding employer and it happened with the help of the employability service. Any jobs I applied for in the normal way came to nothing when I disclosed I had health problems which I felt it was necessary to do to find the right post for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I'm not familiar with how it works in other countries. People on DA can work up to 19.5 hours as is. I fear this is more about getting people of DA and if I'm being honest, I've no doubt a lot on DA Historically, possibly should never have been on it.

    It's incredibly difficult to get DA now. If this goes ahead, just reassessing the many on it will be a challenge in itself. There's one page on the application form that's going to be crucial, the Bit were a GP determines severity of illness. I know on mine it was Severe to profound.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    You could be right, but just determining a level of Disability is not easy. Clearly certain physical Disabilities are obvious but Determining the level a Nuerologic, Mental and less obvious Disabilities are will be very difficult.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    I think mine was moderate. There’s no limit to the amount of hours you can work on DA at present Dempo, the limits are in monetary terms. There are different monetary brackets where different means assessment rule apply. I work 24 hours. In all honesty that’s probably my personal limit as regards managing my own stress levels and preventing a relapse with my mental health. I just could not possibly continue to live indefinitely on DA and have a decent life. Personally I need to have a little disposable income for my own sanity and need to have a purpose in life, I couldn’t have coasted along on just a social welfare income alone for many more years. It wasn’t helping my mental state at all. Things have taken a great upturn in my life since I stated back in employment and subsequently moved house into my own place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,918 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    I'd say it is more including those with disabilities in society. It's shown that poverty is rampant for those in receipt of DA, this could be a push for claimants to do work/education/something for themselves to lead more meaningful lives. Gawd that sounds soo Tory.

    The other reason it is happening imo is because of welfare tourism from the rest of EU, even with the habitual residence clause, it is noticeably happening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Having had time to think about this article now it seems to be a way of implementing the ‘cost of disability’ payment lobby groups were asking for in their budget submissions, but it enables them to exclude a large number of claimants from getting this additional support. I could really do with funds to spend on ongoing counseling services personally on an ongoing basis. I can’t afford it so I currently dip in and out of various free services offered by charities and community organizations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    It kinda makes sense for a long time we had a lot of people especially young people being signed off almost permanently,based off having a bad back or similar, while it's gotten more difficult to get it's still can be gotten by someone who might not be so honest about their health situation, I seem to remember when they brought new assesments in the UK something like 1 million people ( open to correction)came off disability payments before the medical reassessments began ,

    I personally believe if your able to work it should absolutely encouraged, I'd rather see a bigger cut between tiers your , while keeping a medical card depending on the medical condition/s



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Apologies, I understood it was 19.5 hrs. You've done so well and should be proud of yourself 👌

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Good points 👌

    I can on reflection see some merit in looking at the current system. My fear would be those on the Margins, perhaps with mental illness that is not always easy to assess.

    On Twitter, during the week, someone I follow reported her 19 year old Daughter, with severe Autism & behavioural issues, with a Diagnosis was declined DA, Her parents the Diligent type and submitted all the necessary paperwork.

    I do believe, historically many got awarded DA far to easily, I do believe scrutiny important.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭sunbeam


    The green paper is up on the website now. Looks very much like they are proposing to go the UK route. ☹️

    https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/3b001-green-paper-on-disability-reform-a-public-consultation-to-reform-disability-payments-in-ireland/



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,918 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    We want to bring in a new Personal Support Payment 🙄 and Working Age Payment



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I know of Similar case's where a child at 16 got DA based off an autism diagnosis I know the perticular lad , while he's on the spectrum he's doing his leaving this year as he's only moderate the spectrum,but at as you said others have to fight tooth and nail to get their children their benefits they are entitled to , we don't make things easy those who are most in need,

    But how do you deal with the likes of those who got DA when it was a lot easier with say something like depression,I can't work because I have depression is not something that should be a thing, there needs to be honest engagement with people ,but how do they go about it without upsetting various groups



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭sunbeam


    Oh believe me, it can be A Thing if you have chronic seriously debilitating treatment resistant depression.



  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭doc22


    New model if adopted would mean level 3 would be essentially the same as jobseekers....



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,499 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Is this coming in any time soon?

    How would things change for someone on IP with a diagnosed terminal condition?



  • Registered Users Posts: 610 ✭✭✭hawthorne


    There will be months of discussion first. If there is an election in the meantime, the whole thing is dead in the water.

    Folks who are on IP now won't loose it. They will stay on as long as they qualify for it under the present rules.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,499 ✭✭✭Ginger83




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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Having just read the whole thing, I feel the same. I don't like that they don't give any indication of what the income limits might be for lower and middle tiered payments for those that work part time.



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