Disability Payments Review

Dadtom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170987#Comment_121170987

Back when I was a young man in my early twenties I took up an employment skills course at a fas funded fas sponsored training centre. There was a caretaker maintenance fellow working there employed on a ce scheme he used to work five hours five days a week. But getting to the point the man had a drink problem there would be times later in the day where if you came across him in the centre you could get a smell of drink off him obviously he would bring alcoholic drink in some bottle with him to work. On one occasion he arrived into the centre clearly drunk eventually he had to be left go because of his drink problem. The man has not worked since and is on disability as I have seen him present his bus pass when getting on a bus. While he has never being in any trouble with the guards or anything he does have a long term alcohol problem. After someone gets left go from a community employment scheme due to an alcohol problem let's face it going to be very hard for him to find other employment.

BagofWeed

They'll sign it for Travellers who have **** all wrong with them. Loads of Travellers are on DA. All drug addicts who are seeking treatment also get it. I work with addicts in treatment, all of them are on it.

People with serious depression, fobbed off. People with heart issues, fobbed off. Doctors, "Ah sure you'll be grand, tis nothing that'll prevent you working". Getting DA does depend on having a good doctor, one who actually listens.

As for the guy who got it for his mineral addiction, lol, he appealed 1st to the SW Appeals office then to a Chief Appeals Officer.

Big Gerry

I believe the government have moved people from long term unemployment benefit on to "disability".

For a country with "full employment" we have a very high welfare bill.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170987#Comment_121170987

The only country eh? How far did you look?

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/benefit-claimants-with-alcohol-or-drugs-as-a-disabling-condition

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121175411#Comment_121175411

They have absolutely not, I've neighbours on JSA for years, 2 in their early 60's now and still on JSA

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121175411#Comment_121175411

No that’s never happened. There’s no “long term jobseekers benefit”.

Jobseekers Benefit lasts 9 months.

It’s not possible to be “moved” to DA. If an applicant wants/needs DA then they have to apply for it. A medical report from the applicants GP is needed at the very least. DA is a section on its own in Longford.

oceanman

a lot of it is down to plain old begrudgery......he has it and i dont.

okiss

This Disability payments review seems like some bright spark saw what they were doing in the UK regarding this type of payment and thought we can do that here.

Despite what some people think here getting disability is not always that easy for people. I have a friend who was diagnosed on the autism spectrum as an adult after years of various problems. They applied for disability, had to provide phycologist reports, doctors reports and fill out pages of form's. It was rejected and my friend appealed it. They had a face to face meeting with a person from the department of social welfare as part of the appeal. Getting disability improved my friends life.

My friend looked into getting pt work in X area. They found out that after 3 year's they lose their medical card. My friend said medical card is needed if people have long term health issues that require expensive medication.

They can only earn a limited amount before they start to lose some money on their benefit. This went up last year but it seems to kick in after 14-16 hours on min wage.

Then where do the government think that all the disabled people will get work even PT. Some people have conditions that when they are not well they are physically unable to work like say ms. What employer will employ someone who could be ringing in sick on a regular basis? Years ago employers could avail of a government payment for taking on a person with disability but that is no long available as far as I am aware of.

My friend said that they know people on disability and the reality is that could not work. Along with this not everyone on disability is physically disabled so what happens to people who have autism, mental health problems, me ect or as they are known the hidden disabilities?

My friend told me that this plan would make their life far more difficult as they will end up back dealing with tus nua and being pushed into taking any job. My friend also said why can't they go after the 3/4th generation of dole families or the person who has never worked or last had a job 5 plus years ago rather than people on disability.

Cherry Blossom

Just on the post above. The wage subsidy scheme for employers employing people with disabilities is still in place. I am on it. My employer gets €6.30 for every hour I work. This is more than half the minimum wage, it’s not insubstantial. It’s purpose is to cover a shortfall in productivity. The main issue is that employers do not wish to participate in the scheme or they are unaware of it.

There is also a review taking place of the wage subsidy scheme. I made a submission for that already before the one for disability allowance was mentioned. Seems they are trying to overhaul both at the same time.

zell12

Minister answers query in Dáil https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2023-09-28a.528

I would like to emphasise that this Green Paper is not a final design and no changes will be made to the current payments at this time. The Green Paper is a proposal on what the future of long-term disability payments could look like. It doesn’t claim to be the best way or the only way to change the structure of our payments. The proposals in the Green Paper represent a starting point for a structured discussion..

The main proposal of the Green Paper is to move to a three-tiered Personal Support Payment, rather than the one-size-fits-all payments we currently have. This would amalgamate the current system of Disability Allowance, Invalidity Pension, and Blind Pension into one payment with a contributory and non-contributory stream.

zell12

UK news

Disabled people must work from home to do ‘their duty’, says UK minister

Laura Trott, chief secretary to the Treasury “Of course there should be support for people to help them into work but ultimately there is a duty on citizens if they are able to go out to work they should. Those who can work and contribute should contribute.”

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396766#Comment_121396766

...makes sense, from a fairly right leaning govenrment!

Ludikrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396766#Comment_121396766

Absolutely brilliant. There's plenty of work nowadays that can be done remotely and by people with disability.

Ave Sodalis

One thing the green paper fails to address is the possibility of keeping people off higher rates of disability. The money given to those in employment is not sufficient to keep up with the expenses of being disabled, nor is the cut off point high enough.

I work full time... because that's what I need to do to keep myself afloat. I'm busting my ass now to put bigger measures in place to help later (e.g. easier to get out of vehicle, robot hoover, etc), but it is crippling me, and barely covering the extra cost of living. However, throwing in as many extra hours as I can to survive means my body is going to give up at some point in the near future, and force me onto DA.

But a PIP like payment (independent of income) would go a very long way to helping me stay in the workforce for longer.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396838#Comment_121396838

'Fairly' is doing an awful lot of work there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170987#Comment_121170987

In Joe Duffy speak, it’s called being Unwell. But alcoholism can amount to a massive disability when a lot of damage has been done to the brain or liver.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398451#Comment_121398451

I totally agree with you here, though I’m retired on a small public service person. I’ve had to get things like a decent robotic hoover, and it’s an ongoing process of getting aids as my MS progresses. If If these were my working years, in private sector, I know I wouldn’t be able to continue my job, indeed had to retire on other health grounds. If I were working in private sector, I would have ended up on disability payment. The added expenses of keeping oneself functioning at all are not taken into account.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399750#Comment_121399750

....or a right leading government thats completely fcuked, and knows its on the way out, so is talking pure sh1te, about stuff it knows fcuk all about, and polices that will probably never see the light of day.....

Dempo1

I'm not entirely sure why people are quoting or comparing what's happening in the UK with regard to Disability payments, it's completely irrelevant. Already there's talk there about the costs involved in means testing payments.

As for Talk about there being a Right leaning government there, it could be argued we've one here.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400035#Comment_121400035

...we probably shouldnt be littering this thread with our political nonsense, but shur....

...id class our current government as a very higgledy-piggledy, broad spectrum one, we have some how avoided the more extremes, and are somehow managing to keep a more broad spectrum centrist one, but i suspect thats just about to change now, and some of that change wont be nice, unfortunately, interesting times, but....

sunbabe08

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/1207/1420597-disability-payments/

this terrifies me to be honest.

RobbingBandit

I would imagine thousands of disability allowance cases have had extreme changes in circumstances since their original payment date. I now have mobility and vision issues due to medical complications where my original case was for Autism. The acquired disabilities have hindered any attempts to go back to college or to set any sort of vocational goals, they are significant and life altering.

I am wondering what criteria or assessment process will decide what level I am at who will look me over to decide what my life and current values are now worth.

This whole situation is extremely disturbing.

Donald Trump

I would be happy to see tiers where the top tier gets a lot more than they currently do.

I have a friend who would likely qualify for any top tier even without seeing the criteria. At the minute she gets the same as e,g, a 23 year old that is diagnosed with mild diabetes who doesn't want to work. Which is absolutely mental.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468006#Comment_121468006

I’d imagine you’d fall into the top tier and get the max increased amount.

tinofapples

What about those on disability allowance or invalidity pension and working at the same time ? They can't even clamp down on those as is never mind this nonsense.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468110#Comment_121468110

I suggest you familiarise yourself with the legal entitlement to work whilst on Disability Allowance, those who can, have their payment reduced to reflect the earnings they get.

zell12

There was a protest today, against a tier system, was shot down as “ableist” by campaigners, about 70 of whom attended the demonstration on O’Connell Street this afternoon.

https://www.thejournal.ie/activists-decry-govt-green-paper-that-proposes-a-recategorisation-of-disabled-people-6324821-Mar2024/

endofrainbow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468110#Comment_121468110

You cannot work while on Invalidity Pension.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468041#Comment_121468041

I think that’s reasonable but could we trust the powers that be to deliver on that?

I personally fear and English style system where you have private companies on quotas and bonuses to get people off disability being rolled out here as part of this. Luckily I am disabled myself but feel for anyone concerned about this.

Dude240502

Would a change of minister make any difference?

gipi

Reported in today's Irish Times that the "3 tier" proposal for disability allowance payments is not going ahead and will be scrapped.

Dempo1

Welcome News

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/04/12/government-to-scrap-plan-to-change-social-welfare-benefits-for-people-with-disabilities/

Gusser09

Disappointing for the permanently disabled who may have been looked after with an increased payment. These are the disabled who just cannot work and will never be able to work regardless of therapy or recovery from injury.

Cherry Blossom

@Gusser09 There is to be a new cabinet committee on children and disablilities. And disability is a priority for the new Taoiseach according to the article. The green paper was very, very flawed. Hopefully some much better plan can be developed now this green paper is scrapped.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122010248#Comment_122010248

The idea that you would examine a quarter of a million people is very dickensian says Sen. Tom Clonan. Are that many getting some sort of disability payment?

Cherry Blossom

Sorry, I don’t see that quote in the article posted here, are you seeing that somewhere else? I doubt very much that there are quarter of a million people on DA. It’s extremely hard to get in the first place.

zell12

It was on Radio1 ~16:35.

I see a reference to DA claimants 2023 is 161,621. I assume the rest is the other varied disability payments

hawthorne

155000 folks on DA in 2021- according to this:

271075_fbfe982e-a189-434f-a130-e4c97e51df6f.pdf

Cherry Blossom

I think one of the measures the green paper talked about was combining a number of payments under one new payment. I think that included invalidity pension, partial capacity benefit and blind persons allowance so maybe it total it all adds up.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122010674#Comment_122010674

I'd argue the core Disability Allowance payment should be increased dramatically for any one on it, also additional allowances have not been increased for over 10 years I believe.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011119#Comment_122011119

I think the number is around 160k and I agree it is very difficult to get. Whatever about folks being on DA, Historically, new claimants over the past 10 years have to supply reams of medical reports & the decline rate on 1st application attempt is extraordinarily high.

I was fortunate getting approved on 1st attempt.

zell12

UK - it is electioneering, but still

Disability benefits could be vouchers, not cash, in Sunak crackdown. Disabled people face being stripped of monthly payments and given vouchers instead under a benefits crackdown being unveiled ahead of the local elections

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/benefit-crackdown-mental-health-sunak-dwp-b2536178.html

hawthorne

I suggest that politicians should be stripped of their generous payments and offered vouchers instead!