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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the Left - read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330


    Adien whatever her name was, don't care. She had pronouns in the bio when she gunned down kids in a school.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    If you don't care let's leave it at that. The pronouns didn't kill, the shooting did.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Are you sure the pronouns sparked outrage, not the shooting?

    Right wingers give their pronouns all the time in their bios, usually without a hint of irony, such as "kiss/my/ass"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    What's the connection? Only people with pronouns go on killing sprees? He used pronouns to kill people?

    Think it should be pretty obvious to call that bullshit.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're not comparing like with like.

    Today, the threat from the far-left is not violence. Yes, there are a fringe number of violent cases (BLM riots etc.), but that does not constitute the overall threat. Nobody has argued that the far-left are equally as violent as the far-right today. That's nonsense. It's a strawman.

    From my perspective, the threat from the far-left is not -- I repeat not, largely associated with violence -- but rather on the social and cultural damage and division the ideology wreaks into society. Whether it's arguments in favour of uncontrolled population growth; misogynistic attempts to destroy women's sport and spaces; or identity politics that seeks to pit group identity against group identity; the stifling of free speech and expression; or the attempt to introduce this divisive ideology into schools; there is an awful lot of damage that this ideology can and is causing. That's not even the least of it.

    And I'm not referring to "the left" in totality, only the fringe on the radical extreme. Most on the traditional left agree with me on many of these core points. Not all, but many. Nor does it mean I'm arguing that far-right threats do not exist. They do exist, and these threats are readily and rightly discussed on the thread title that bears its name. But far-left threats in their own form also exist, and I'm highlighting some of those threats here. They deserve to be discussed, not arrogantly dismissed.

    You can continue to attack the strawman that far-right violence is on one side and pronouns are on the other, but this is nothing more than a disingenuous attempt to downplay the real and legitimate threats that can and do emerge from far-left ideology.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    So the fùck what. Pronouns aren't murdering people ffs

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    TLDR

    The far right is violent. There's a lot less equivalent violence from the far left. 👍

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The far-right is characterised by extremism, which typically involves the application of violence.

    The far-left today is characterised by radicalism, which is a very different approach:

    Radical politics denotes the intent to transform or replace the fundamental principles of a society or political system, often through social change, structural change, revolution or radical reform.

    Again, you're attacking a strawman; not comparing like with like. Dismissing my post with "TLDR" speaks volumes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭lmao10


    lol good post. It's quite something to see the mental gymnastics that poster has to go through after admitting the far right is obviously more violent than the far left... by an insane amount...



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How many times...

    Nobody has argued that far-left and far-right violence is equivalent. Nobody, not one person. It's an invented fiction.

    Threats to society can exist in different forms.

    Far-right violence and far-left radicalism -- two different beasts, two very different forms of threat.

    To suggest that threats to society can only exist through the means of violence is patently absurd.

    If at this stage people are pretending this distinction doesn't exist, I can only assume that it's deliberate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,417 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    It appears that we have reached the, “Wanting to treat everyone equally and bold people to account is comparable to violence” point of the debate.

    Oh goodie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,126 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    I thought it was the point where the thread equates being murdered with guns and having your feelings hurt because someone used pronouns on their twitter profile and anyone could end up reading those pronouns.


    Let that sink in anyone could read those pronouns which is obviously a lot worse than being murdered by a gun.

    Most self proclaimed free speech absolutists are giant big whiny snowflakes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    From my perspective, the threat from the far-left is not -- I repeat not, largely associated with violence

    That's not my argument - but to fair, I think is is someone else;s.

    My argument is that you deliberately post far left incidents in a left thread in order to combine the two and blur the lines. Not one of your posts is moderate left and all are just thinly veiled attacks on left-wing ideas and policies. The intent of this is to stir up and incite hate - although it may be unintentional - which is why I call you a threat.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My argument is that you deliberately post far left incidents in a left thread in order to combine the two and blur the lines.

    Yes, that's exactly what I do -- but not for the latter reason.

    Violence is largely irrelevant to the criticisms I make of the far-left. I focus on policy and its potential and actual implications.

    Not one of your posts is moderate left and all are just thinly veiled attacks on left-wing ideas and policies.

    That's true, but there's nothing thinly veiled about it.

    The intent of this is to stir up and incite hate - although it may be unintentional - which is why I call you a threat.

    Criticising political ideas is never hateful, no matter how many times you repeat this line. You just don't want the policies critiqued.

    Let me ask you a question: can you name some policies / positions espoused by the radical far-left that you deeply oppose introducing into society?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    You don't focus on policy, you focus on incidents. Take the bondage-in-kindergraten link. That was in incident, you claimed it was policy.

    You don't criticise political ideas, you attack marginal left-wing groups with propaganda - case in point: trans education in schools.

    Before I answer your quesion, you need to clarify "far-left policy" - because most of what YOU think are far-left I'm not going to see as far-left. I'd be inclined to think anarchy off the top of my head, because I think it can only work on a small-scale level.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If your characterisation of far-left or left radicalism is only "anarchy" or nothing, then it doesn't matter what policy / positions I put forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,417 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    It would be interesting to see where you draw the line between left and far left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    I didn't think it was, which is exactly why I was asking. I mean, I'm against the use of violence as portrayed by Sarah Baker, if that helps and I'm against any sexualised material in prmary schools. the bondage pic is an example: if they'd been two guys in normal clothing kissing, I;d have been fine with it. But the bondage was too much.

    Does that answer? If not, then you'll need to give me examples of what you mean by far left as oppose d to moderate, because I think we're going to differ there.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Then you agree with me that the far-left can and does go too far.

    The examples you cite are among the same kind of criticisms I tend to make. There's nothing "hateful" about identifying these mistakes, it's incumbent upon society to identify them and weed them out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Yeah, but you use them to attack the left as a whole. And again, there's the issue with trans education in schools which you use to attack the trans community. THAT'S the difference.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Lies.

    Here is what I said a short time ago:

    And I'm not referring to "the left" in totality, only the fringe on the radical extreme. Most on the traditional left agree with me on many of these core points. 



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,593 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Exactly. The far right borderline don't exist while the far left controls everything it seems. Also, the two are identical but only one ever gets criticised. Any time someone criticises the far right, they're met with whatabouteries and both sides.

    Since pronouns aren't killing people, I can conclude that there's no threat from the left. Honestly, a lot of this stuff seems to be people trawling the internet for American gack to get outraged by.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Yes, The far left "radicalises" people but the violence committed by the far right doesn't mean those far right people were "radicalised". If the far right even exists of course... many far right people want to portray themselves as normal people and not the racist, homophobic scum that they are... for obvious reasons.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Also, the two are identical but only one ever gets criticised.

    Because this thread is only about one side. Another thread already and rightly discusses the threats from the far-right.

    Any time someone criticises the far right, they're met with whatabouteries and both sides.

    Precisely because it is whataboutery. Look at the thread title.

    This isn't a competition, where we must decide whether threats only come from one side. And when threats from the far-left are identified, we don't need to qualify that identification by reference to the far-right. It doesn't mean we're saying no threat exists from the far-right.

    In other words, they are mutually exclusive threats.

    Since pronouns aren't killing people, I can conclude that there's no threat from the left.

    That's just a silly non-sequitur, straw man, and red herring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330


    If a shooter is on the right , that means the threat comes from the right. But if a shooter is on the left , there is no threat from the left...

    Untitled Image




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Nobody is gonna deny it, you jumped on pronouns being included in the LinkedIn of a shooter from April. In the case you referenced, he had pretty well established mental issues referenced them in his manifesto and had previously attempted suicide. On top of that he had a history of concussion injuries which has been been linked to killings. So you latched onto one fact to represent a much more complex case that's being intentionally dishonest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭lmao10


    He'll also have no comment about the far right scum that have committed mass shootings and used far right rhetoric to justify them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ‘Many people are saying they agree with me folks’

    okay Donald



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