Barbie (2023)

titan18 · 30-07-2023 11:15pm

Gosling as Ken and his scenes be Liu's Ken were the best parts of it tbh. Rest of it was ok with the message lacking any real subtlety or nuance tbf. Robbie is great in her stuff too tbf but feels like there was more to be given and got into it there and they didn't do it.

titan18 · 30-07-2023 11:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913916#Comment_120913916

Tbf the end of the film ends with the Barbie's putting Ken's back in their place and giving them some throwaway positions.

Imagine a film like this that starts with the men in power, the women breakout and take over only to get put back down by having them fight each other and then get given some throwaway positions to appease them. That probably does end up exactly like the previous poster said.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 30-07-2023 11:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918527#Comment_120918527

I don't have to imagine that because it's a reflection of the real world. Except women aren't trying to take absolute power like the Kens were. It honestly baffles me that people don't see that's what was being portrayed with the Barbies at the end. And that people can see how ridiculous the Kens all look behaving that way, but can't see how if the roles were actually reversed it would appear surprisingly normal for women to be portrayed that way.

They even showed it in the real world when Barbie asked why there were no women in the boardroom and Will Ferrell's character told her that they had a female CEO in the 90s so it's fine.

Even turning the Kens against eachother is a reflection of how women have historically been socialised to see eachother as competition. If we're too busy trying to bring the other women in the room down we won't be able to work together to address the real issues.

Even how the Kens are portrayed as accessories to the Barbies is how women were portrayed in films for years. Only existing as a prop for the male leads, either to badger him into growing up, or die so he can have a revenge story, or as a love interest who doesn't exist if the man isn't on screen talking to her. Ken literally says he only matters when Barbie is looking at him.

So yeah, there's no need to imagine a reversal of the Barbies/Kens dynamic because a) it's been on our screens repeatedly for decades, and b) it's how the real world still works.

suvigirl · 30-07-2023 11:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918604#Comment_120918604

It is literally just men that I have spoken with that just don't seem to get it at all.

Like every woman immediately sees the mirror image of real life and very few of the men seem to. It's shocking actually!

titan18 · 30-07-2023 11:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918604#Comment_120918604

That's great and all but that's not really what the original poster said. They said that their female friend didn't think a reversed gender version of those film would get made without a ton of controversy, and that's probably true.

I couldn't see a Ken film where all the Ken's live in Kendom and Barbie tries to topple the patriarchy there only to be put down and given some low level position not being met with a ton of controversy, can you?

Ignoring that the film is grand (about a 7/10 imo) with Gosling's performance being the best part. I honestly think it missed a bit not being a bit longer and giving Robbie or some of the other Barbies more to do. Despite this being a woman led and directed film, Cera as Allan got more time on screen than some of the more notable background Barbies.

JP Liz V1 · 31-07-2023 12:09am

I noticed that Annie Mumolo (Writer Bridesmaids) and Emerald Fennell (Writer Director Promising Young Woman) are briefly in this, cameos

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 31-07-2023 12:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918722#Comment_120918722

Fennell played Midge, didn't she? I believe there's some deleted scenes that featured her more.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 31-07-2023 12:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918692#Comment_120918692

You couldn't make a gender flipped version of this because it would then cease to be satirical or parody. Which is the point I'm making. So if someone made that film it would be a completely different thing and anyone who wanted to make that film would probably be quite deserving of any criticism that came their way, or at the very least have their motivations severely questioned.

titan18 · 31-07-2023 12:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918744#Comment_120918744

Ya, the message would obviously be different (and horrific) but it's still the same film just reversed gender wise and lampooning feminism which is what the original poster said.

JP Liz V1 · 31-07-2023 12:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918733#Comment_120918733

The pregnant Barbie?

I think Ken and Barbie spoke to Annie's character at the school

pixelburp · 31-07-2023 8:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918754#Comment_120918754

But as said, reversing doesn't work because the intent is clearly to poke fun at a lopsided power structure; that no longer works if the roles are reversed. Clearly feminism isn't trying to take over the summit, despite what some people might cry. It's no different to where comedy that "punches down" doesn't really exist - we tend to mock and criticise those who are above us along the pecking order. You can say "if we flipped the genders it wouldn't be funny", but the only reason a work of fiction would do that in the first place was if there was a Matriarchy was in charge instead - but there isn't, so it's a bit of a case of if my granny had wheels scenario...

I think there's a value in flipping genders with solid tropes and story templates, because you can bring a completely different energy to a story if it's implemented right; I always think that a 12 Angry Women adaptation would be very interesting if someone sufficiently talented did it; because playing off all the various energies and clichés of female competition, rivalry and so on would be a much different, but still fascinating beast compared with the macho, testosterone stand off of the original.

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 9:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918527#Comment_120918527

I'd have liked an ending where instead of barbie dominance, margot done a 'wait thats not right kens should have equality and their own houses and cars and jobs because we're better than the real world and all that'. But the film you suggest in which male dominance triumphs is also most films ever made. Some good examples of what you say include the James Bond films. The older James Bonds even infantilized the female characters and made Bond a disciplinarian(often physically) as well as a sexual dominant, quite creepy really. Barbie was nowhere near that abusive to Ken, she took him for granted, that's about the extent of it.

I see sheep · 31-07-2023 9:13am

I saw in Friday night. It was good but dragged a bit imo. Ken/Gosling was brilliant. Some great one liners from Barbie, including the last scene.

I see sheep · 31-07-2023 9:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919200#Comment_120919200

That is what happens 🤷‍♀️

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 9:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919216#Comment_120919216

yes I'm aware but president barbie only gives the kens token roles, I mean being a perfect plastic world they should have made everything equal.

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 9:22am

I'm curious now about the trans barbie who is a doctor, did she used to be a ken?? was she a ken when she was a doctor? so many questions. There's a spin off right there.

I thought it was cute when ken said she was beautiful (although without glasses). There was also a large % of the audience who didn't seem to be aware she was trans.

AndrewJRenko · 31-07-2023 9:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919237#Comment_120919237

Is it ALL movies that you expect to have neat, happy endings now, or just this one?

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 10:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919366#Comment_120919366

I don't expect, I would have liked. And generally for this type film a slapstick comedy, I'd like that type of ending. In any case I did love Barbie and i guess they have to set it up for a sequel.

I see sheep · 31-07-2023 10:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919247#Comment_120919247

I didn't see any trans barbie, maybe you have to be looking really hard for these things to see them.

homerun_homer · 31-07-2023 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919247#Comment_120919247

I know one of the Barbies is trans, but I don't believe the movie was portraying any of the Barbies as being a trans Barbie. They simply cast a trans actress as a Barbie as far as I see it. I wasn't aware until a few days after when I was looking up some of the bit part cast to see who some of the less familiar cast to me were, since many bit parts are directors/writers (Emerald Fennell), singers (Dua Lipa). I then thought that others in the cast may be fan favs from other things I didn't know very well.

HerrKuehn · 31-07-2023 10:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916998#Comment_120916998

Disagree with it being a once off, this should spawn the same level on spin offs as the MCU, at least that would be my hope. So those who cheered on the continuous comic book movies shall understand what we were complaining about. Hopefully we get Sindy moves too (equivalent to DC universe)

johnny_ultimate · 31-07-2023 10:40am

I do have to say it was quite refreshing seeing a trans woman just part of an ensemble, with no big attention drawn to the fact. Trans-specific stories are vital (especially when told by transgender creatives), but sometimes important progress is when trans actors are just there like everyone else, naturally part of the story and world :) It’s still a rare enough thing to see.

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 11:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919438#Comment_120919438

I'd say it's just that straight people tend to overlook these things that's how Hollywood had so many gay characters in early 20th Century films without much backlash from censors. LGBT people will instantly clock all the subtleties. Trans actor Hari Nef opens up about being empowered in upcoming Barbie movie • GCN

As soon as she spoke I clocked the voice but I guess these things aren't picked up by the mainstream.

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919503#Comment_120919503

Interesting, perhaps you're right, she's just a barbie played by a trans actor. I thought that when Ryan Gosling gave her the 'you're beautiful' it was meant to be an affirming thing for trans-barbies. I suppose people who are trans will walk away taking that interpretation anyway and the mainstream crowd who didn't notice will go on and there'll be no hassle from the incel crowd about it, same as when gay characters were subtle in films 50 years ago, censors didn't notice and gay people felt representation.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 31-07-2023 12:02pm

Just saw a review and subsequent discussion on Letterboxd that is a bit upset that Barbie denies the hopeful truth of God, and also apparently the opening is pro abortion?

So..... lots of people taking very different things from this one.

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920008#Comment_120920008

I kinda got that atheist/agnostic vibe when barbie didn't need permission from her creator to live the life she wanted so I get where that's coming from. As for abortion, I'd say that's a fair stretch.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 31-07-2023 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920236#Comment_120920236

I think their issue was the idea that humans only have one ending, which I guess I understand if you're someone who believes otherwise. But the abortion thing..... was it the girls smashing their dolls?

homerun_homer · 31-07-2023 2:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919833#Comment_120919833

That "you're beautiful" moment I think was a clear piss take on the teen movie, girl with the glasses isn't attractive until she take them off trope, but whether they intend that to have that extra layer to the comment I don't know. If it works for people then all the better.

fluke · 31-07-2023 3:21pm

Loved this, when I saw it with a friend on Saturday, and caught Oppenheimer on Wednesday last, which is also great.

For the first time in ages it felt like going to the movies was a big occasion, and I've been to quite a few movies this year.

Foxtrol · 31-07-2023 3:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914168#Comment_120914168

From what I can see there are many people out there showing a similar lack of awareness of what's actually happened with Barbie.

Everyone is pulling out whatever they want to see as being the key factor in the success of the movie and claiming it. Mattel is seeing it being their IP, film heads claim it down to the director, marketing companies will claim it is all the stuff they made go viral etc etc.

It is quite similar to Top Gun last year - it isn't straight forward and anyone who claims that it is is at best deluding themselves.

Barbie (2023)

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