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Cork library staff being abused and intimidated over LGBT+ books

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    #2
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,611 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Absolutely disgusting and totally unacceptable behavior. And illegal too I would wager - certainly the destruction of library property.

    There is no doubt that intolerance and homophobia is on the rise here, Minister Roderick O’Gorman is getting daily homophobic abuse and being called a paedophile and child groomer on social media.

    Something is emboldening the homophobes to spew their hatred more openly and that needs to be looked at and addressed.



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    #3
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058288200/cork-library-staff-being-abused-and-intimidated-over-lgbt-books

    Its happening all over the country. Librarians are being harassed regularly.

    https://m.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/dublin-news/juno-dawson-books-will-not-be-removed-from-dublin-libraries-after-complaints-about-sexualised-content-42323296.html


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #4
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120359011#Comment_120359011

    Yep

    A lot of these people are far right activists who are also involved in racist and refugee hate protests.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #5
    Barna77
    Registered Users Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭Barna77


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120359093#Comment_120359093

    Saw that happening the other day at my local library.

    Two women made a formal complaint about the display of lgbt themed books and a rainbow flag.

    Somebody think of the children and my auld mother kind of attitude.



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    #6
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    What is the book about? Where was it displayed? (for context)



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    #7
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120368728#Comment_120368728

    Its a book about being lesbian, gay, bi, trans and is in the Young Adult section.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #8
    Be right back
    Registered Users Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭Be right back


    What about live and let live? Disgusting to try impose your backward views on other people.



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    #9
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/04/03/libraries-at-centre-of-culture-wars-as-protesters-try-to-remove-lgtbq-books-for-young-people/

    Harassment is ongoing

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #10
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Juno Dawson's young adult non-fiction book This Book is Gay has been removed by Children's Books Ireland from their Pride Reading Guide. 

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41110669.html

    According to the article linked in the above post this was one of the books in the library.

    Here's some pages from the book;

    https://twitter.com/Angievonder/status/1643899021197492224


    The part I would actually find most objectionable is the section headed "Biological differences between gay and straight". What utter nonsense to be brainwashing kids with.



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    #11
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Gobshites protested GPO yesterday


    https://gcn.ie/anti-lgbtq-protests-dublin/


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #12
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454423#Comment_120454423

    Certainly shouldn't be in the non-fiction section.



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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Where are the Gardai?



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    #14
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/cork-city-library-workers-fed-27253425

    Absolutely disgusting ongoing intimidation in Cork. Shameful.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #15
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Anyone in Cork please support


    https://twitter.com/ForsaCork/status/1676614963509571585?t=knjEvGTGN1oGfs1a-lEugA&s=19


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #16
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://jrnl.ie/6124389
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-41185477.html


    Good articles on these disgusting attacks.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #17
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Intimidating staff like this seems repensible. But on the specific point of Juno Dawson’s book, some groups like Children’s Books Ireland have reversed their position on it.

    Do you think it’s suitable for children , and if not why was it on children’s reading lists from junior infants upwards, and why is it in the children LGBTQ+ display in these libraries?

    Perhaps a little more attention to detail here would help separate the extremists from people asking legitimate questions about what’s suitable material for children?



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    #18
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120887590#Comment_120887590

    Young adults is not children.

    Children's Books Ireland were harassed too by the way.

    Post edited by Annasopra on

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #19
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭donaghs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120888088#Comment_120888088

    I’m not a subject matter on this controversy, but everything I’ve read up to this point has said that it’s “a young adult book”, but it was in lists which included “children”. E.g. 0-18

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41110669.html

    ”a must-have for all school libraries”

    https://www.anpost.com/AnPost/media/PDFs/CBI-Book-List-Rainbow-Reads-An-Post-FINAL-(1).pdf

    Looking at more articles, it looks like the Irish libraries had placed it in the “12-14 sections”. And they are not backing down.

    https://m.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/dublin-news/juno-dawson-books-will-not-be-removed-from-dublin-libraries-after-complaints-about-sexualised-content/42323296.html

    I know there’s more to the book than sex advice (although the excerpts online are mostly sex and sexuality advice) but this does seem a bit young for advice on sexting, hand jobs, blow jobs, anal, sex toys, and so forth.

    with the caveat of them being aimed at age 18+ , it seems very pro hookup apps like Grindr as a way to meet people, tips on how the create the most attractive online dating profile. The main benefits being meeting lots people quickly, etc. I think IMHO that’s risky behaviour for 12 to 14 years olds - you don’t need to have kids to know about online safety and so on.

    The bit about the 16 year old having an affair with a married man, going back to his place and so on, was… eye opening. While ages of consent can be vary between jurisdictions and people can mature at different ages etc, I think IMHO they are necessary to protect younger people from exploitation. And, from a purely legal point of view, in Ireland 16 is below the age of consent. So more food for thought.

    maybe the libraries should just admit they made a mistake, say sorry, and move it to an older section. This would take most of the wind out of the protests, and I think most reasonable people would agree with this.

    Or is there something else I’m missing here?



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    #20
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120888623#Comment_120888623

    12-14 year olds cannot take these books out without parental consent.

    Why exactly should teenagers not be learning from well researched books?

    Why are there calls to censor these books but not loads of other books?

    Why on earth wouldn't you want to promote online safety to teenagers?

    None of the protests and calls to censor are reasonable when they are based on anti education and anti lgbt agendas

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #21
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,368 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120888623#Comment_120888623

    Stop this intimidating behaviour bullying people in their workplace first.

    Then let a discussion take place.



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    #22
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cork Library had to close again today because of obstruction. Disgusting and disgraceful.

    Post edited by Annasopra on

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #23
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    Are only certain people allowed to protest? (ie the people who agree with your views)



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    #24
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914669#Comment_120914669

    Harassment, threats, intimidation, damage to books, shoving people, homophobic and transphobic hatred isnt protest. Constant calling people groomers, child abusers, prostitutes, paedophiles isnt protest. Deliberately causing obstruction in order to close public services isnt protest.

    Post edited by Annasopra on

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #25
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://m.sundayworld.com/news/irish-news/cork-library-closed-due-to-the-actions-of-far-right-protesting-books/a882568199.html

    Fair play to Dan Boyle calling it out

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #26
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916815#Comment_120916815

    Do you have a link to the video evidence?



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    #27
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120917200#Comment_120917200

    This has been going on for many many months. Its easy enough to find all the links yourself.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #28
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    Amazing that not one video has been posted here. It's easy to make accusations. It'd be even easier to end any doubt by just posting the evidence



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    #29
    zozimus
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭zozimus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120368728#Comment_120368728

    It doesn't matter. We don't have censorship and we trust librarians to do their job.



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    #30
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,869 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120917236#Comment_120917236

    You must be unable to do a Google search. Or if you are trying to pretend that the library wasn't closed, that books were not torn up, that staff have not been harassed and intimated maybe try the conspiracy theories forum.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #31
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120917249#Comment_120917249

    People exaggerate stuff all the time. So yes, in this day and age, in a public building with cameras, when everyone has their own camera, surely there is a video going around of these monsters who have been there multiple times now.



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