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Cork library staff being abused and intimidated over LGBT+ books

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    #92
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063039#Comment_121063039

    That says a lot about you that you think it's OK to rip up books and harass and intimidate librarians repeatedly calling them groomers and paedophiles as well as physically shoving people too.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #93
    apache
    Registered Users Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭apache


    What exactly is the problem with the book? I've heard a few things about it and if any of it is true I don't think it should be accessible. But I'm trying to figure out what is fact and what is fiction? It's not like I have a copy of the book to check it.



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    #94
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919199#Comment_120919199

    Ross Lahive arrested in possession of knife. My understanding reading that article is he was in possession of the knife while tackling the Lord Mayor. Librarians and others have been highlighting their violent tactics for about 2 years now.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-41219845.html


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #95
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064504#Comment_121064504

    The people who are defending it are basically saying that it's not freely available to kids without parental consent. However I think any adult who gives that book or consents to a kid under 16 reading it is close to child abuse. Is it grooming? I wouldn't go that far. I think giving kids some of that information is dangerous and makes them more vulnerable to abusers as they may think certain actions are normal, even for their age group. That's basically why I am sympathetic to protests because I think nobody under 16 should be allowed to get that sort of material, especially from a public institution.



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    #96
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078963#Comment_121078963

    Shameful.

    You want to censor books and you want to ban young people from learning. And comparing information to abuse is bigoted and disgusting. Plus of course you are not looking to censor any general books on sex education. Proves its even more about anti lgbt bigotry.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #97
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078963#Comment_121078963

    An interesting point of view. So the big question is WHY do you think withholding this information protects children from predators? I've seen many interviews with abuse survivors and the only thing they all seem to have in common is that they say they were innocent, they didn't understand what was happening or they assumed this must be normal. Surely informing them early that these are sexual acts and there are age of consent laws is empowering them to protect themselves.


    As an aside, are you seriously suggesting that there are 16 year olds in this country who do not already know what a blow job is?



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    #98
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079001#Comment_121079001

    It's funny getting a morality lesson from someone who is happy for under 16's to learn how to perform sexual acts to please men.

    We're not talking about censoring the book. It should be available to any consenting adult or even 16 and above is fine with me.

    I doubt we'd even need to have this conversation if the book was entitled 'Here's how to blow your man for Junior Cert girls'. It's just the protected status of LGBT community that enables this kind of garbage to go unchecked.



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    #99
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079533#Comment_121079533

    The idea that young adults shouldn't get sex education because they might get abused if things are honestly explained to them is frankly off the wall bizarre nonsense. In fact its the very opposite - keeping them uneducated and ignorant means they will not fully understand what's going on and likely to pick up their information/education from pornography sites.

    This is completely all about censorship and denying young people proper education and it is very much anti lgbt bigotry as noone says a thing about other sex education books.

    There was a post on this in CA recently where a person was explaining that he learnt in his youth all about what gay relationships might look like from porn sites and this ended up with him having a very skewed and messed up attitude to relationships.

    That is the result of this desire for censorship; hiding away information and attitudes about healthy and positive relationships and leaving people to inform themselves in many negative ways.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #100
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    I'm sure that this book is probably a great learning tool for young people in the community and probably 99% of it may be fine for younger teenagers. It's unfortunate that they had to include some things for shock factor in order to get attention but I suppose that is good marketing and has ultimately made everyone involved more money.

    It's sad that some members of the community are so hardcore that nothing with the LGBT label on it can be wrong or out of order, and anything they produce should be available to all.

    Any criticism of course must be anti LGBT. That is the company mantra.

    I don't remember being taught about blowjobs in sex education classes in junior cycle and I doubt schools are teaching that these days too. Maybe that's why people aren't complaining about it. As for other books available in public libraries, whether they are straight or gay I think it is morally wrong (and a bit sick of any adult) to voluntarily give access to this kind of information for u16s.

    Below 16 is not a young adult by my definition. Above post just tries to change my original argument because my actual argument doesn't suit theirs. In my opinion 18-25 are young adults but I'm prepared to accept 16-18 will be better off knowing some of this information depending on their own development stage.

    Regarding abuse, my opinion is that kids knowing this information and learning it from a 'trusted' source such as a library or school makes it normal and acceptable. (Most kids are smart enough at a basic level to recognise a trusted source from an untrustworthy source) I think that these kids may be vulnerable to consenting to perform these acts on abusers as a result, which could lead to abuse going on long term.

    Just out of curiosity, if anyone believes such a book protects kids from abuse by educating them, then what age is your limit? Maybe you'd want it rolled out in primary schools? (no need to answer, just being flippant to make a point)



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    #101
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    There is no hard-core company mantra. Merely highlighting extremist violent anti lgbt hatred.

    The books are educational.

    Violent groups with extremist anti lgbt and anti youth education agendas are campaigning to censor and remove them.

    This is absolutely an anti lgbt campaign based on homophobic/transphobic hatred. Using disgusting shameful bigoted language and slurs about child abuse show this. There is also no attempts to remove or censor general sex education books only lgbt ones.

    The main agitators have shown they are all violent thugs and are all also linked to other far right racist violent movements too.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #102
    whydoibother
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭whydoibother


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058288200/cork-library-staff-being-abused-and-intimidated-over-lgbt-books

    Who abused staff? Were they Irish or Muslims? There’s been an anti gay feeling revival in the uk as well but those against gays are normally Muslim…



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    #103
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121084294#Comment_121084294

    White Irish devout Catholics abused staff.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #104
    Detritus70
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079533#Comment_121079533

    We're certainly not in the market on lectures about morality from a person trying to sea-lion and gaslight people about right-wing thugs harassing and intimidating library staff and patrons.



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    #105
    Become Death
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Become Death


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085194#Comment_121085194

    lol.

    gotta love the use of those terms.



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    #106
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085194#Comment_121085194

    Sorry I'm not American you'll have to have another go at telling me what I did wrong.



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    #107
    Detritus70
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085866#Comment_121085866

    I'm not American. I'm not Irish. I'm not even a native English speaker.

    But I am always willing to help out with any abstract concepts or longer words of the English language you are having trouble with, I know that those are always a bit of a bother for right-wingers.



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    #108
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,908 ✭✭✭circadian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083453#Comment_121083453

    You're sure the book is a great learning tool? There's material for shock factor?


    Have you read the book?



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    #109
    Hodger
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Hodger


    Im not going to link to anyone,s twitter or faeebook; but it is a bit Ironic to see some people complaining about the library protesters wanting to cancel or burn books and then putting up posts about contacting a hotel in clonmel to try cancel a meeting tomorrow where parents can get information about changes to the school curriculum and have a say at this meeting if they agree or disagree with such changes and the other ironic part most of the very people who want to cancel tomorrows meeting in clonmel don,t even live in clonmel.



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    #110
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086331#Comment_121086331

    Noone here is putting up posts about anything to do with Clonmel so thats completely irrelevant.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #111
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    The main instigator doesn't even see his own kids



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    #112
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086603#Comment_121086603

    Most of the main instigators have criminal records for violence or been proven violent by social media

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #113
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088458#Comment_121088458

    Yet there's people here justifying them🤣



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    #114
    Deub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Deub


    I don’t know the book mentioned in this thread. Can anyone buy that book or is it only for 16+ ?



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    #115
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088462#Comment_121088462

    People are mainly justifying the reason behind the protest.

    That said, the most violent thing I've seen from the video evidence is a lad kicking an empty paper cup at someone.



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    #116
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    The protestors may want to Google the Streisand effect

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #117
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,702 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086331#Comment_121086331

    But it won't be about the curriculum will it, these idiots think kids will be thought horrid henry, it'll be a thinly veiled "Ireland for the Irish" homophobic transphobic racist bollixfest.

    Any parent can email a school and receive their childs workload for the year, Amazing how these "concerned parents" couldn't manage that but think they're best placed to educate their kids.....



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    #118
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088725#Comment_121088725

    Thats just lies

    Tearing up library books

    Verbally harassing people calling them groomers and paedophiles

    Physically shoving other library users.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #119
    Hodger
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Hodger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086593#Comment_121086593

    The meeting went ahead yesterday; if you type in talbot hotel clonmel on twitter you,ll see there was an online campaign to try cancel yesterdays meeting when looking through the posts and tweets of these campaigners they against the cancelling of library books but wanted a meeting where parents can get some information cancelled.



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    #120
    Hodger
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Hodger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086603#Comment_121086603

    The lad you indirectly mention wasn,t involved and wasn,t at yesterdays meeting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3XV9Ta_hT0




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    #121
    Hodger
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Hodger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121089211#Comment_121089211

    As there are laws on defamation.

    https://twitter.com/IrlagainstFash/status/1688901324677541888

    https://twitter.com/IrlagainstFash/status/1688901324677541888

    If the man with the grey hair decides to bring a defamation case he will well be within his rights to do so.



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