Cork library staff being abused and intimidated over LGBT+ books

zozimus

A few points

1. Kids aren't getting advice from books. They get it from the internet and friends. Everyone knows this, so these so-called concerned parents are transparently disingenuous.
2. We don't have censorship here. We are moving away from church fiddling with everything.
3. LGBT+ rights are NOT up for debate. My right to exist is no business of yours.
4. Nobody anywhere is pushing books on kids. The libraries have had very descriptive books on sex education for decades. Why are these people ONLY protesting about books for LGBT+ people? Isn't that odd? Doesn't that tell you what they are really about? Hint: they aren't 'just asking questions' - go and look at what they've been posting on their twitter and telegram accounts for the past few years.
5. The will fail. They are embarrassingly out of touch with the zeitgeist. The Irish people are much more empathetic and caring than they seem to think and their imported tactics (from oh, I dunno,Boston?) simply won't work.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120917270#Comment_120917270

There's many links to articles in the thread. It's easy enough to find further links yourself. Your attempts to claim none of this ever happened are pathetic.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120888623#Comment_120888623

Wait till you hear about the Bible. Graphic descriptions of human torture, caniballism, crucifixion, incest and more.

I'm just asking questions, but presumably you'd be in favour of immediate withdrawal of the Bible from all libraries, right?

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120917848#Comment_120917848

Why would I think that? I’m not totally familiar with the Bible, but I know the Old Testament is certainly unsuitable for children. Possibly parts of the New Testament like the Crucifixion and Revelation (both should be fine for 12-14 age group) but it’s ages since I read about all that and I’m in no hurry to revisit it.

Its just lazily idiotic to assume that because someone questions the wisdom of a book giving advice on handjobs, blowjobs and setting up Grindr profiles etc, for the 12 to 14 age group - then that person is some American Baptist stereotype.

what age do you think people should investigate Grindr? :)

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120917276#Comment_120917276

1. it’s true that books are less relevant today. But your point appears to be that it’s of no concern what’s in children’s kids books, because they get most info from the internet? That’s an odd one. Also, even if the protesters are horrible nasty crazy people (I don’t know any of them), could it be possible a book full of sexualised content (how to setup and use Grindr etc) is unsuitable for the 12-14 age group?
2. We already have censorship. There just needs to be a reason for it that meets the current criteria. I.e. bomb making guides etc. Outside of the protests, some people have raised their heads above the parapet to politely suggest that some of the books are not suitable for children or the 12-14 group where they have been placed.
3. I haven’t heard anyone questioning anyone’s right to exist. But I have only read news articles and have not been following the protesters closely.
4. Im not aware of any other pre-existing books in the 12-14 section given giving advice on handjobs, blow jobs, gridr profiles etc. Please let me know if I’m wrong. The placement of sex advice books alongside children’s books (girl with 2 dads, and tango makes 3, etc) in Cork library, also seems unusual to me. The Juno Dawson anecdote about the 16 year old having the affair with the married man also is problematic in that it’s below the age of consent here. I’m not really interested in the protesters, im just curious about the content of some of the books and the age category they are placed in.
5. 5. The protestors? sure, they seem quite extreme, and hassling library staff like that is unacceptable. But instead of taking a knee-jerk black and white approach to this, maybe ask questions yourself. Are some books unsuitable for children? Are some books unsuitable for 12-14 year olds? Or are library book display curators right about everything always?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918175#Comment_120918175

So cannibalism, torture and incest are good topics for 12 year olds?

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918380#Comment_120918380

I don’t know what you mean? Can you just please clearly state what you mean and the context etc?

I said the Old Testament was unsuitable for children.

I’m not a bible expert, by cannibilism do you mean eating the body and drinking the blood of Jesus ? (If I have that correct)

if so, yes, I think a 12 year old could read about that, with the proviso that its a very old religious text from a pre-science era and they shouldn’t take it literally.

going off on a tangent here? What age would you recommend for Juno Dawsons books? (I.e. going back to the library display discussion).

Acosta

The usual small pack of losers taking a day off from harassing refugees, to get back to their usual MO of trying to link homosexuality with grooming.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918406#Comment_120918406

So you agree that we should remove the Bible from libraries?

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120917301#Comment_120917301

Articles are not evidence. It's very telling that not one person seems to have recorded videos of the monsters. The only video on YouTube I can find is a demonstration supporting the library. But how on earth is there no video of the abuse and hate crimes so it can be passed onto gardai?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918923#Comment_120918923

You did notice that a library had to close over the weekend as a result of intimidatory tactics by these goons?

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918928#Comment_120918928

They closed the library yes. Lots of protests and even parades can be intimidating. But there is usually a video or two of the shocking behaviour doing the rounds. Would just like to see that. How many goons have been arrested so far?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918923#Comment_120918923

You're just embarrassing yourself at this stage trying to pretend none of this ever happened. There's lots of evidence in the articles. If you want videos find them yourself.

zozimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918315#Comment_120918315

You are using the same arguments the far right are using when they decide the Iris Nation needs chaperoning.

You keep saying you don't know but then give an opinion. I've read the books- I used their list and bought them all.

I've stood in front of a Library and tried to prevent these people getting in to harass staff.

I worked in the public library service for a decade.

I've also checked the lists of which books are available for straight kids, and I knew which books were there for the decade I worked there.

You casually suggest that 12-14 year olds have access to inappropriate books - they don't. They have the same access to these books as they would to any of the other sex education books (most, by the way, have much more explicit diagrams in full colour).

Teens aren't in need of your protection or that of thugs harassing library staff on their way home from the anti immigrant protests.

LGBTQ+ teens are the ones needing protection from wolves in sheep's clothing who are extremely concerned and 'just asking questions' about their lives whilst having absolutely no interest whatsoever in the lives of straight teens.

We all see what's going on here.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918931#Comment_120918931

That’s the issue. Gardai aren’t arresting them. They are escorting them instead, in marked contrast to their attitude to tenant rights groups, for example.

https://twitter.com/jamesrednetwork/status/1643998663105204224?s=46&t=3l1OhjvjsuAh4w9RMjlH8g

what the hell!

Why couldn’t the guards just take down that banner on Saturday? It’s illegal to put a banner on a public building so take it down.

AndrewJRenko

These are the thugs involved, creating a wedge issue as part of their homophobic campaign.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41194729.html

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919043#Comment_120919043

I don't feel embarrassed. I'll say again how is there not a single video of this illegal behaviour? If there is evidence why has nobody been arrested?

They would have video surveillance in a public library I'm fairly certain so if illegal activity takes place they can report it to the gardai instead of the papers.

That's the last I'll say on it unless evidence comes to light. I think I've made my point one too many times so I'll jog on.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921391#Comment_120921391

Right OK. Putting your earplugs in, putting your eyemask on and pretending none of it ever happened. At this stage you are merely spreading disinformation.

Annasopra

There's your video evidence; videos of homophobia, transphobia, harassment and ripping up books

Video of transphobic and homophobic abuse calling people groomers

https://twitter.com/IrlagainstFash/status/1684659974268485632

Abusing staff - telling them they are grooming

https://twitter.com/Au_Da_City/status/1649736985244753922

Threats made to librarian

https://twitter.com/IrlagainstFash/status/1649495105823178752

Screaming abuse in Tralee

https://twitter.com/vmax_14/status/1679487765258604544

Tearing up books in Cork Library

https://twitter.com/vmax_14/status/1635340108282077184

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931102#Comment_120931102

These charming men

https://twitter.com/soundmigration/status/1687152901116878848?s=46&t=3l1OhjvjsuAh4w9RMjlH8g

https://twitter.com/chudsoftiktok/status/1687386505067573248?s=46&t=3l1OhjvjsuAh4w9RMjlH8g

https://twitter.com/eamonnvidf/status/1687239949202898946?s=46&t=3l1OhjvjsuAh4w9RMjlH8g

WHere are the police in all of this? Arrests and baton charges need to happen. I'm a little tired of the garda let's join hands and sing kumbya attitude.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938452#Comment_120938452

They’re busy providing escorts for the thugs, apparently.

https://twitter.com/jamesrednetwork/status/1643998663105204224?s=46&t=3l1OhjvjsuAh4w9RMjlH8g

Hodger

The books the protesters want banned from libraries I don,t agree with their stance' any type of sex education books in libraries as long there is a parental consent clause its a matter for parents to decide if they think their son / daughter is old and mature enough to have access to read sex education books be it sex education books for straight teens or gay teens.

I watched their video today from portumna they didn,t do themselves any favours loosely throwing around the groomer term around.

I don,t agree with self appointed censors be it the library protesters or those who worked to cancel the recent rural think local festival last month.

elperello

Calling the priest a heretic is an unusual way to go about getting local support.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/locals-rail-against-protest-at-portumna-library-over-lgbt-books/

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954784#Comment_120954784

Exactly. They are available with parental consent.

This isn't about books or concern for children at all. It's a campaign of homophobic and transphobic hatred.

Annasopra

The thing is as well huge swathes of people don't support them. Cork people showed up in their hundreds to oppose them. Limerick people opposed then too. They had pushback in Portumna as well.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41198482.html

Annasopra

https://twitter.com/LeahNiD/status/1691754026503733501?t=GryNO6KLsQEndz-v3CruiA&s=19

Someone aallegedly beaten by these people in Leitrim yesterday for hanging up a pride flag

Annasopra

https://twitter.com/BolshieBish/status/1691860015018111079?t=boXLV69ZL4MEq75aO8A4Xg&s=19

This is not about protecting women and children at all.

cgcsb

I was just thinking the other day, granted the far right loons should be locked up based on what I've seen of them on social media. But there's a separate issue here. There are many people who are not loons who would be uncomfortable with such content in teen books, rightly or wrongly, and I've been thinking about why that is.

Basically, modern society has decided at some point (perhaps around the 19th century) that nudity = sex and that children ought to be shielded from both to the point that children don't actually know sex exists or what it is exactly, or they are unaware of what the body of the opposite sex looks like. I was quite ignorant of these matters until I was about 10 or 11, it was back when the internet was not easily accessed and had very little content anyway.

I'm not sure why exactly modern society wants children in the dark on these matters while on everything else we generally say 'knowledge is power'. When you ask people who are extremely opposed to telling kids what sex is or letting them see nudity, the answers they give often include the word 'innocence' and really what it boils down to is; 'we don't tell kids these things to protect them from pedos'.

You might say fair enough, if it keeps them safe from pedos, but does it? Whenever we see interviews with people who have survived child sexual abuse, the one thing that they all seem to say is "I didn't understand what was happening, I didn't know it was wrong, I thought this was normal" etc. It seems to me from an objective point of view that hiding these topics from kids actually creates opportunities for sexual predators to exploit children. I think it's more about adult victorian era embarrassment than about protecting children.

Kids are smarter than adults seem to want accept and in any case they are learning about these things from hardcore pornography from their smart devices some of which is now even AI generated. The 'concerned' parents lot seem to think some basic free parental lock app will block someone born in the smart phone era from secretly viewing such material, and they'll get to deny the existence of sex for another few years. Pointless really, adults should be answering questions honestly from as early as they are asked like they would on any other topic, knowledge is still power.